Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: the Lukan context of the LP

Expand Messages
  • Mark Goodacre
    Jeffrey You might be interested in the following comments from Joel Green (_The Gospel of Luke_ (The New International Commentary on the New Testament; Grand
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 2 5:34 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      Jeffrey

      You might be interested in the following comments from Joel Green
      (_The Gospel of Luke_ (The New International Commentary on the New
      Testament; Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1997), pp. 397-8:

      "Although other narrative needs may be served by the Lukan account
      of the journey to Jerusalem, the final one that will occupy our
      attention here is one that has emerged only recently in the
      narrative but whose pedigree in the Third Gospel is more pervasive.
      This concerns *Jesus' "exodus"*, about which Jesus conversed with
      Moses and Elijah in the transfiguration scene (9.31) . . . Cases of
      intertextuality, we may recall, not only borrow from but also parody
      - that is, signal differences in the midst of similarities - earlier
      material in order to give a fresh meaning to current narration. In
      this case, Luke has built up a series of reminiscences, some
      linguistic and others conceptual, of Exodus material, but he has
      done so in a way that mimics the Deuteronomic portrayal of the
      Exodus journey as a series of speeches delivered by Moses to the
      people of God. These speeches call for faithfulness to the covenant
      or, in Lukan terms, for a people whose kinship with Jesus is marked
      by their hearing and doing the word of God. (8.21)."

      Of course 11.27-28 re-affirms the latter point, and is not the
      Martha and Mary story that comes just before the Lord's Prayer in
      Luke (10.38-42) also about "hearing the word of God and doing it",
      viz. true discipleship?

      All the best

      Mark
      -------------------------------------------
      Dr Mark Goodacre M.S.Goodacre@...
      Dept. of Theology, University of Birmingham

      Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
      World Without Q: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/q
      (Please note new address)
    • Mark Goodacre
      I think that Jeffrey s suggestion that Luke is, broadly, dealing with discipleship and apostasy in this material is a good one. Before Luke 9.51, Luke has been
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 3 10:06 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        I think that Jeffrey's suggestion that Luke is, broadly, dealing
        with discipleship and apostasy in this material is a good one.
        Before Luke 9.51, Luke has been careful to make clear what true
        discipleship involves. It is "hearing the word of God and doing it".
        Key texts here are:

        6.46-49: "Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does
        them, I will show you what he is like . . . " (at the conclusion
        of the Sermon on the Plain, addressed to his disciples (6.20) in
        the "hearing of the people", 7.1)

        8.21 "My mother and my brothers are those who hear the word of
        God and do it" (a redactional reworking of Mark 3.35, "doing the
        will of God")

        The Travel Narrative gets underway with the question of "would-be
        disciples" (9.57-62); seventy-two are then sent out on mission and
        again the hearing of the word of God, in the context of discipleship
        and apostasy, is key:

        10.16: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you
        rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

        The Good Samaritan + Mary and Martha complex seem further to have the
        Shema ("Hear O Israel, the Lord your God . . .") very much in the
        background. It is explicit in 10.25-28 and implicit in the Mary and
        Martha story which appear to be all about discipleship roles:

        10.39: ". . . Mary, who sat at the Lord's feet and listened to
        his teaching" (HKOUEN TON LOGON AUTOU).

        She is the one that is commended by Jesus as the true disciple
        (10.42).

        This story leads into the Lord's Prayer, which is Jeffrey's major
        concern, and its context in 11.1-13 appears to be the Fatherhood of
        God and sonship. The Friend at Midnight parable and the associated Q
        teaching (11.9-13) appears to concern God's faithfulness in the light
        of the requests made by his children.

        As always, teaching on true discipleship in the Travel Narrative is
        interleaved with matters of controversy over Jesus' ministry, as in
        11.14-26 in which Jesus is charged with casting out demons "by
        Beelzebul", while some seek signs. God's judgement has already come
        on opponents who are the antithesis of the earler models of
        discipleship like Martha.

        11.27-28 pronounces a blessing on the true disciple. We should not
        be surprised that the true disciple is conceived, in typical Lukan
        language, as the one who "hears the word of God and keeps it"
        (11.28). Meanwhile, there are those who will continue to seek for
        signs (11.29) but who do not repent when the word of God is preached
        (11.29-32). Once more, Luke is interleaving teaching on true
        discipleship with controversy about those who reject "the word".

        This is just a quick sketch of the way that I see the early chapters
        of the Travel Narrative working. I agree with Jeffrey's notion that
        the LP in Luke fits into a context broadly concerned with matters of
        discipleship (hearing the word of God) and apostasy (rejecting the
        word of God).

        Let me conclude by observing that just as the Sower Parable is key to
        the plot of Mark's Gospel (often realised, e.g. by Tolbert & Drury),
        so too it is key in the plot of Luke (less often realised). For Luke
        has, in his interpretation of the Sower Parable (8.11-15), the
        opening line "the seed is the Word of God" (redactional change to
        Mark on the assumption of MP). And then the different types of
        ground as those who "hear". Some are those who reject the word (the
        apostates). For the interpretation of the LP note especially:

        Luke 11.13: "And the ones on the rock are those who, when they
        hear the word, receive it with joy; but these have no root; they
        believe for a while and in the time of temptation (PEIRASMOS,
        again LukeR of Mark) fall away."

        Those, like Martha, who hear the word of God and do it are celebrated
        in the conclusion of the parable's interpretation (8.15).

        Mark

        --------------------------------------
        Dr Mark Goodacre M.S.Goodacre@...
        Dept of Theology Tel: 0121 414 7512
        University of Birmingham
        Birmingham B15 2TT
        United Kingdom

        Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/goodacre
        World Without Q: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/q
        (Please note new address)
      • Lamerson, Sam
        Jeffery, I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that will do for now) and am
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 6 5:06 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          Jeffery,
          I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
          forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
          will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
          you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
          you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
          exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
          to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
          that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
          I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
          what he would have thought of several elements.

          Blessings

          Sam Lamerson
          Knox Seminary

          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: Jeffrey B. Gibson [SMTP:jgibson000@...]
          > Sent: Thursday, July 02, 1998 6:00 PM
          > To: Crosstalk
          > Cc: Synoptic-L; graphai
          > Subject: the Lukan context of the LP
          >
          > List-Members
          >
          > I'm beginning my probe into the Lukan context of the LP - which,
          > you'll
          > recall is in the interest of finding evidence that the LP is a prayer
          > which is more concerned with keeping the disciples from apostasy than
          > "praying down" the "end times". So I have several questions upon which
          > I'd like feed back from anyone who'd care to reply and expecially from
          > anyone who has been doing work on Luke (not my forte)
          >
          >
        • Jeffrey B. Gibson
          ... Sam, Thanks for your message. Funny you should mention Wright. I have not yet read his _The Lord and His Prayer_ but I had just last night resolved to do
          Message 4 of 6 , Jul 6 8:33 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            Lamerson, Sam wrote:
            >
            > Jeffery,
            > I am currently writing my dissertation in the area of
            > forgiveness in Matthew (obviously much more specific than that, but that
            > will do for now) and am doing some work on M's version of the LP. When
            > you say that the prayer is not about "praying down the end times" would
            > you then disagree with N.T. Wrights analysis of the eschatological and
            > exilic elements of the prayer (thy kingdom come)? Much of my work has
            > to do with the link between forgiveness and exile and I am convinced
            > that Wright is correct in much of what he argues (or Steck before him).
            > I do wonder how a first century Jew would have viewed the prayer and
            > what he would have thought of several elements.
            >

            Sam,

            Thanks for your message. Funny you should mention Wright. I have not yet
            read his _The Lord and His Prayer_ but I had just last night resolved to
            do so today! So as to whether I disagree with him I cannot as yet say.
            However, Tom and I were both students of G.B. Caird, so I am enormously
            sympathetic to Tom's view of the eschatology of Jesus as set out in
            _Jesus and the Victory of God_, a view which owes much to Caird's own
            work on eschatology and the historical Jesus. So I can't imagine he and
            I are too far off from one another, at least in the idea that if any
            eschatology pervades the LP it is one which sees the BASILELIA as having
            already dawned. It is this sense of KAIROS - that is, a sense that
            Israel is even now being visited by God and how it responds in the light
            of this will determine it's fate - that stands behind the LP.

            Now as to the meaning of the petition "let your Kingdom come": you
            should note that I carried on some discussion of this point on crosstalk
            and Synoptic-L back in February of this year. But in case you cannot
            access the archives to these lists, I'm appending as an attachment, the
            posting I sent in which I first mooted my musings on this matter. Feel
            free to respond to it.

            Also, I should very much like to see (as I'm sure others on the lists
            above would too) what you have to say about the forgiveness petition in
            the LP as well as what the additional teaching on forgiveness which
            Matthew attaches to the LP does to the meaning of the LP as a whole.

            Yours,

            Jeffrey Gibson


            P.S. plase ignore the fact that the attachment is labeled "bebop". I had
            to name it something, and bebop was the first thing that came to mind.
            That's the influence of listening to a golden oldies station as I write!

            --
            Jeffrey B. Gibson
            7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
            Chicago, Illinois 60626
            e-mail jgibson000@...
          • Edgar Krentz
            Jeff, just a quick bibliographic not e. Do you know THE LORD S PRAYER, Supplementary Issue No. 2 to The Princeton Seminary Bulletin? It was published in 1992,
            Message 5 of 6 , Jul 8 12:00 PM
            • 0 Attachment
              Jeff, just a quick bibliographic not e.

              Do you know THE LORD'S PRAYER, Supplementary Issue No. 2 to The Princeton
              Seminary Bulletin? It was published in 1992, a report on the 1991 Frederick
              Neumann Symposium on the Theological Interpretation of Scripture.

              And then, one substantive comment. I find in Jesus' words both the
              conviction that the Kingdom was among them and that it still lies in the
              [immediate] future? You seem to regard that as impossible. Such enigmatic
              seeming contradictions arecharacteristic of his words.

              And it seems to me that is also true in 2 Isaiah. Comment?

              Peace, Ed Krentz


              *******************************************
              Edgar Krentz, Prof. of New Testament
              Lutheran School of Theology at Chicago
              1100 EAST 55TH STREET
              CHICAGO, IL 60615
              Tel: [773] 256-0752; (H) [773] 947-8105

              Reply to: ekrentz@... (office)
            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.