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[Synoptic-L] More on the Synoptic Problem by Streeter

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  • Brian E. Wilson
    I wonder whether Stephen Carlson has the following synoptic argument in his archives on the synoptic problem? I have just read B. H. Streeter, The Synoptic
    Message 1 of 4 , Dec 4, 2000
      I wonder whether Stephen Carlson has the following synoptic argument in
      his archives on the synoptic problem? I have just read B. H. Streeter,
      'The Synoptic Problem' in (ed.) A. S. Peake, "A Commentary on the Bible"
      (London, 1919), pages 672-680. Streeter affirms --

      "In fact, the resemblances between the Synoptic Gospels are exactly of
      that character which, if they occurred in three different journals, we
      should attribute to the fact that these had one or more special
      correspondents in common, whose contributions have been somewhat freely
      edited. Accordingly we are driven to the conclusion that the first
      three gospels, though independently written, cannot be treated as
      entirely independent biographies of our Lord, but that each of them must
      obviously have drawn much of his information from a source or sources
      also accessible to one or both of the others" (page 672).

      It seems to me that at this point Streeter allows as one possibility
      among others that all three synoptists were dependent on a common
      documentary source ("each of them must obviously have drawn much of his
      information from a source ... also accessible to ... both of the
      others").

      Best wishes,
      BRIAN WILSON

      E-mail; brian@... HOMEPAGE www.twonh.demon.co.uk

      Rev B.E.Wilson,10 York Close,Godmanchester,Huntingdon,Cambs,PE29 2EB,UK
      > "What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot
      > speak thereof one must be silent." Ludwig Wittgenstein, "Tractatus".
      _

      Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
      List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
    • Stephen C. Carlson
      ... Thanks for the tip. I will look into it. ... Undoubtedly, Streeter was thinking of some form of Ur-Markus as his other writings attest. Stephen Carlson --
      Message 2 of 4 , Dec 4, 2000
        At 07:59 PM 12/4/00 +0000, Brian E. Wilson wrote:
        >I wonder whether Stephen Carlson has the following synoptic argument in
        >his archives on the synoptic problem? I have just read B. H. Streeter,
        >'The Synoptic Problem' in (ed.) A. S. Peake, "A Commentary on the Bible"
        >(London, 1919), pages 672-680. Streeter affirms --

        Thanks for the tip. I will look into it.

        >It seems to me that at this point Streeter allows as one possibility
        >among others that all three synoptists were dependent on a common
        >documentary source ("each of them must obviously have drawn much of his
        >information from a source ... also accessible to ... both of the
        >others").

        Undoubtedly, Streeter was thinking of some form of Ur-Markus as his
        other writings attest.

        Stephen Carlson
        --
        Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
        Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
        "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
      • Brian E. Wilson
        Brian Wilson wrote -- ... Stephen Carlson replied -- ... I am not so sure. In 1909 Streeter had written St. Mark s Knowledge and Use of Q in which he
        Message 3 of 4 , Dec 5, 2000
          Brian Wilson wrote --
          >
          >I wonder whether Stephen Carlson has the following synoptic argument
          >in his archives on the synoptic problem? I have just read B. H.
          >Streeter, 'The Synoptic Problem' in (ed.) A. S. Peake, "A Commentary on
          >the Bible" (London, 1919), pages 672-680. Streeter affirms --
          >...
          >It seems to me that at this point Streeter allows as one possibility
          >among others that all three synoptists were dependent on a common
          >documentary source ("each of them must obviously have drawn much of his
          >information from a source ... also accessible to ... both of the
          >others").

          Stephen Carlson replied --
          >
          >Undoubtedly, Streeter was thinking of some form of Ur-Markus as his
          >other writings attest.
          >
          I am not so sure. In 1909 Streeter had written 'St. Mark's Knowledge and
          Use of Q' in which he maintained that all three synoptists were
          dependent on the documentary source Q (see W. Sanday, ed., "Oxford
          Studies", pages 155-183). In "Oxford Studies" it is made clear that
          Streeter and others had already rejected the Ur-Markus hypothesis and
          advocated "the Two Document Hypothesis" instead, with Q being the
          source of all three synoptic gospels and Mark the source of Matthew and
          Luke. I would suggest therefore that when he wrote in 1919 in (ed.) A.
          S. Peake, "Commentary on the Bible" about a source accessible to all the
          synoptists, Streeter may well have had in mind the 1909 hypothesis that
          Q was the common documentary source of all three synoptic gospels.

          Best wishes,
          BRIAN WILSON

          E-mail; brian@... HOMEPAGE www.twonh.demon.co.uk

          Rev B.E.Wilson,10 York Close,Godmanchester,Huntingdon,Cambs,PE29 2EB,UK
          > "What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot
          > speak thereof one must be silent." Ludwig Wittgenstein, "Tractatus".
          _

          Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
          List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
        • Stephen C. Carlson
          ... Allow me to disagree. By 1924 (closer in time to the Commentary article than the Oxford Studies piece), Streeter had abandoned his idea that Mark knew Q,
          Message 4 of 4 , Dec 5, 2000
            At 10:24 AM 12/5/00 +0000, Brian E. Wilson wrote:
            >Brian Wilson wrote --
            >>It seems to me that at this point Streeter allows as one possibility
            >>among others that all three synoptists were dependent on a common
            >>documentary source ("each of them must obviously have drawn much of his
            >>information from a source ... also accessible to ... both of the
            >>others").
            >
            >Stephen Carlson replied --
            >>Undoubtedly, Streeter was thinking of some form of Ur-Markus as his
            >>other writings attest.
            >
            >I am not so sure. ...
            >I would suggest therefore that when he wrote in 1919 in (ed.) A.
            >S. Peake, "Commentary on the Bible" about a source accessible to all the
            >synoptists, Streeter may well have had in mind the 1909 hypothesis that
            >Q was the common documentary source of all three synoptic gospels.

            Allow me to disagree. By 1924 (closer in time to the Commentary
            article than the Oxford Studies piece), Streeter had abandoned his
            idea that Mark knew Q, yet still recognized the possibility of an
            Ur-Markus. Furthermore, since Mark and Q barely overlapped, it is
            hardly the case that Mark "must obviously have drawn *much* of his
            information from" Q (emphases added). I am willing to grant you,
            though, that in Streeter's quotation "a source or sources" may well
            have contemplated the use of Q in addition to, but not instead of,
            Ur-Markus by all three synoptics.

            Stephen Carlson
            --
            Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
            Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
            "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35

            Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
            List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
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