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Re: [Synoptic-L] Mark's more negative portrayal of the disciples.

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  • Stephen C. Carlson
    ... What then would you make of the proliferation of the apocryphal acts of various apostles? Stephen Carlson -- Stephen C. Carlson
    Message 1 of 6 , Jul 7, 2000
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      At 09:46 AM 7/6/00 EDT, Maluflen@... wrote:
      >I think so. I believe MacDonald is correct in his observation, but there is
      >also another factor that is likewise consistent with (though of course not
      >decisively probative of) a late Mark: because of a growing distance from the
      >time of the apostles, there would be a fading interest in them in Mk,
      >compared with the other Synoptics, ...

      What then would you make of the proliferation of the apocryphal acts
      of various apostles?

      Stephen Carlson
      --
      Stephen C. Carlson mailto:scarlson@...
      Synoptic Problem Home Page http://www.mindspring.com/~scarlson/synopt/
      "Poetry speaks of aspirations, and songs chant the words." Shujing 2.35
    • Maluflen@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/7/2000 6:40:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time, scarlson@mindspring.com writes: ... the ... What then would you make of the proliferation of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jul 7, 2000
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        In a message dated 7/7/2000 6:40:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
        scarlson@... writes:

        << At 09:46 AM 7/6/00 EDT, Maluflen@... wrote:
        >I think so. I believe MacDonald is correct in his observation, but there is
        >also another factor that is likewise consistent with (though of course not
        >decisively probative of) a late Mark: because of a growing distance from
        the
        >time of the apostles, there would be a fading interest in them in Mk,
        >compared with the other Synoptics, ...

        What then would you make of the proliferation of the apocryphal acts
        of various apostles?>>

        Stephen, you didn't complete my original sentence: "...because of a growing
        distance from the time of the apostles, there would be a fading interest in
        them in Mk, compared with the other Synoptics, as historical leaders of
        Jewish
        Christianity (the legitimation factor, prominent in Matt and Lk, is almost,
        if not entirely lacking in Mark)..".

        But you raise a good point: at the same time that we note a fading interest
        in the apostles as historical leaders of Jewish Christianity, there is a
        definite trend toward developing interest in them as legendary characters. A
        neat progression can be noted in this regard that extends from Matt, through
        Luke, through John and into the second century apocryphal writings (I will
        note briefly at the end how Mark fits into this pattern):

        1. In Matt, as a general rule (and with the exception of Judas) only Peter
        speaks and acts in isolation from others of the twelve; exceptions to this
        rule are Matt 20:22, where "the sons of Zebedee" are addressed by Jesus in
        isolation from the ten, and respond (in unison) with the single word:
        DUNAMEQA, and Matt 26:22, where a short saying: "is it I, Lord?" is
        attributed to "each one" of the apostles separately.

        2. In Luke, by comparison to Matt, places are multiplied where Peter
        intervenes or speaks alone (5:5; 8:45; 12:41; [24:12]); others of the twelve
        than Peter begin to speak alone (e.g., John alone in 9:49; James and John in
        9:54); Peter appears in the narrative in conjunction with John (or James and
        John) in places where the Matthean par. does not mention them (8:51; 22:8).

        3. In John, the tendencies begun in Luke continue: Peter's role in the
        narrative increases with respect to the Synoptic accounts (6:68; 13:8, 9;
        13:24, 36; 18:10, etc.); others of the twelve than Peter also begin to take
        on active roles in the narrative, and they are also the subject of direct
        speech: Andrew, Philip, Thomas, etc.

        In some respects, Mk fits in this trajectory between Lk and Jn (i.e., the
        position it occupies according to the Two-Gospel Hypothesis): Mark introduces
        apostles into the narrative in places where they are not present in the other
        Synoptics, and at times their direct speech is even cited: Mk 1:29, 36-37;
        10:35 (where James and John are mentioned by name, and initiate the action,
        differently from their role in the Matthean par. Note that the dialogue
        between Jesus and the two disciples here is also slightly expanded);
        12:43;13:3.

        On the other hand, Mark omits some of the places in Matt where Peter alone
        appears, and some of the additional places in Luke where Peter alone appears
        (and one text in Luke where James and John alone appear: Lk 9:54). Also, the
        reference to "two of his disciples" in Mk 14:13 would probably be judged
        "earlier", by the canons of the above described trajectory, than the parallel
        in Lk 22:8 ("and he sent Peter and John..").

        Leonard Maluf
      • Maluflen@aol.com
        In a message dated 7/7/2000 11:13:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Maluflen@aol.com writes:
        Message 3 of 6 , Jul 8, 2000
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          In a message dated 7/7/2000 11:13:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
          Maluflen@... writes:

          << In some respects, Mk fits in this trajectory between Lk and Jn (i.e., the
          position it occupies according to the Two-Gospel Hypothesis): Mark
          introduces
          apostles into the narrative in places where they are not present in the
          other
          Synoptics, and at times their direct speech is even cited: Mk 1:29, 36-37;
          10:35 (where James and John are mentioned by name, and initiate the action,
          differently from their role in the Matthean par. Note that the dialogue
          between Jesus and the two disciples here is also slightly expanded);
          12:43;13:3. >>

          Actually, for the 10:35 passage, the dialogue between Jesus, on the one hand,
          and James and John on the other, is considerably expanded in this passage,
          compared to the Matthean parallel, if we take into account that in the first
          part of the dialogue it is now the disciples, not their mother, who are
          speaking.

          Leonard Maluf
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