Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

[Synoptic-L] mary magdalene

Expand Messages
  • Jim West
    Listers--- FYI, On June 20th at 8 PM EST A&E will present a Biography of Mary Magdalene. Following is a blurb for the show. It may be of interest to some
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 5, 2000
      Listers--- FYI,
      On June 20th at 8 PM EST A&E will present a "Biography" of Mary Magdalene.
      Following is a blurb for the show. It may be of interest to some of you.

      BIOGRAPHY: MARY MAGDALENE examines the life of a woman who, for nearly two
      thousand years, was believed to be a prostitute; who repented and became a
      devoted disciple of Jesus. But in our time a fascinating new picture has
      been uncovered. Mary Magdalene was almost certainly not a prostitute. She
      was a woman of wealth whose financial support was crucial to the survival of
      early Christianity. It was Mary Magdalene to whom Jesus first appeared after
      His death. It was Mary Magdalene who first brought the news of His
      resurrection to the other disciples. She may even have been privy to
      special, secret knowledge given by Him to her alone. Rancor and resentment
      against her by the male disciples began even while Jesus was still alive. It
      has endured for two thousand years Ð but finally the truth about Mary
      Magdalene is emerging.

      BIOGRAPHY: MARY MAGDALENE presents scholarly insights about the life of this
      fascinating woman with interviews that include professors Harold W. Attridge
      from Yale, Karen L. King from Harvard, Katherine L. Jansen from Catholic
      University and Kathleen E. Corley from the University of Wisconsin.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      " The righteous man looks after his own soul, and the bodies of others,
      whereas the hypocrite looks after his own body, and the souls of others"
      Rabbi Lionel Blue

      Jim West, ThD
      jwest@...
      http://web.infoave.net/~jwest
    • Wieland Willker
      Jim West wrote: She was a woman of wealth whose financial support was crucial to the survival of early Christianity. It was Mary Magdalene to whom Jesus first
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 5, 2000
        Jim West wrote:
        She was a woman of wealth whose financial support was crucial to the
        survival of early Christianity. It was Mary Magdalene to whom Jesus first
        appeared after
        His death. It was Mary Magdalene who first brought the news of His
        resurrection to the other disciples. She may even have been privy to
        special, secret knowledge given by Him to her alone. Rancor and resentment
        against her by the male disciples began even while Jesus was still alive. It
        has endured for two thousand years but finally the truth about Mary
        Magdalene is emerging.
        -----------------------------------

        Almost the same could be said about Salome. What do we REALLY know?

        "And the sister of the youth whom Jesus loved and his mother and Salome were
        there, and Jesus did not receive them."

        Best wishes
        Wieland
        <><
        ---------------
        Wieland Willker, Bremen, Germany
        mailto:willker@...-bremen.de
        http://www.uni-bremen.de/~wie
      • Maurice A. O'Sullivan
        ... For those not within range of that broadcast, here is a quote from an ... been largely lost--and at the same time greatly distorted. She is identified as a
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 5, 2000
          At 14:36 05/06/00, Jim West wrote:
          >On June 20th at 8 PM EST A&E will present a "Biography" of Mary Magdalene.
          >Following is a blurb for the show. It may be of interest to some of you.

          For those not within range of that broadcast, here is a quote from an
          interesting feature in U.S News and World Report edition of 8.12.98:

          >>>The New Testament's Mary Magdalene is another woman whose story has
          been largely lost--and at the same time greatly distorted. She is
          identified as a person of means, a follower of Jesus who had once been
          possessed by demons. In all four Gospels it is Mary Magdalene who discovers
          the empty tomb of Jesus. She is never identified as a prostitute--the one
          thing "everyone knows" about her. How did she become a whore? Jane Schaberg
          of the University of Detroit--Mercy, among others, has exposed an intricate
          process of conflation culminating in the sixth century A.D., whereby Mary
          Magdalene acquired the attributes of certain other women mentioned in the
          Gospels. Such conflation may not have been an accident. As Harvard's Karen
          L. King has noted, in some early Christian documents, such as the so-called
          Gospel of Mary, a struggle over women's leadership and right to prophesy
          finds expression in accounts of struggle between Mary Magdalene and the
          apostle Peter. Then as now, King observes, besmirching a woman's virtue was
          an effective way of eroding her legitimacy.<<<<<

          The entire special report " The Bible According to Eve" is still available
          on-line at:
          http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/980810/10bibl.htm

          Raymond F. Collins, in the Anchor Bible Dictionary, makes an important
          point about a divergence between East and West on the person of Mary Magdalene:

          >>From about the 6th century in the Western Church, but not in the
          Eastern, traditions developed which tended to identify Mary Magdalene with
          the sinful woman of Luke 7:36–50 and/or Mary of Bethany (John 11:1–12:8;
          Luke 10:38–42), but there is no historical evidence on which to base such
          identifications. Indeed, the weight of evidence of the canonical gospels
          would seem to militate against such identifications.
          Undoubtedly the unsavory reputation of the city of Magdala contributed to
          the identification of Mary Magdalene and the woman of Luke 7:36–50. <<<<

          Maurice

          Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
          mauros@...
        • Jeffrey B. Gibson
          ... This same topic was covered in 1992 in Bible Review by Jane Schaberg in an article entitled How Mary Magdalene Became a Whore . Yours, Jeffrey Gibson --
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 5, 2000
            "Maurice A. O'Sullivan" wrote:

            > At 14:36 05/06/00, Jim West wrote:
            > >On June 20th at 8 PM EST A&E will present a "Biography" of Mary Magdalene.
            > >Following is a blurb for the show. It may be of interest to some of you.
            >
            > For those not within range of that broadcast, here is a quote from an
            > interesting feature in U.S News and World Report edition of 8.12.98:
            >
            > >>>The New Testament's Mary Magdalene is another woman whose story has
            > been largely lost--and at the same time greatly distorted. She is
            > identified as a person of means, a follower of Jesus who had once been
            > possessed by demons. In all four Gospels it is Mary Magdalene who discovers
            > the empty tomb of Jesus. She is never identified as a prostitute--the one
            > thing "everyone knows" about her. How did she become a whore? Jane Schaberg
            > of the University of Detroit--Mercy, among others, has exposed an intricate
            > process of conflation culminating in the sixth century A.D., whereby Mary
            > Magdalene acquired the attributes of certain other women mentioned in the
            > Gospels. Such conflation may not have been an accident. As Harvard's Karen
            > L. King has noted, in some early Christian documents, such as the so-called
            > Gospel of Mary, a struggle over women's leadership and right to prophesy
            > finds expression in accounts of struggle between Mary Magdalene and the
            > apostle Peter. Then as now, King observes, besmirching a woman's virtue was
            > an effective way of eroding her legitimacy.<<<<<
            >
            > The entire special report " The Bible According to Eve" is still available
            > on-line at:
            > http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/980810/10bibl.htm
            >

            This same topic was covered in 1992 in Bible Review by Jane Schaberg in an article
            entitled "How Mary Magdalene Became a Whore".

            Yours,

            Jeffrey Gibson


            --
            Jeffrey B. Gibson
            7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
            Chicago, Illinois 60626
            e-mail jgibson000@...
            jgibson000@...
          • Maurice A. O'Sullivan
            ... Or see: Thimmes, Pamela. Memory and re-vision: Mary Magdalene research since 1975. Currents in Research: Biblical Studies 6 (1998): 193 - 226. Of
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 6, 2000
              At 05:16 06/06/00, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:
              >This same topic was covered in 1992 in Bible Review by Jane Schaberg in
              >an article
              >entitled "How Mary Magdalene Became a Whore".

              Or see:
              Thimmes, Pamela. "Memory and re-vision: Mary Magdalene research since 1975."
              <I>Currents in Research: Biblical Studies</I> 6 (1998): 193 - 226.

              Of course, all of these presuppose access to a good library.
              I was merely proffering -- in response to Jim's news of one "popular"
              medium -- the continuing availability of another "popular" medium on the
              same subject.

              Be that as it may, the title that most intrigues me is:
              Saxer, Victor. "Marie Madeleine dans le commentaire d'Hippolyte sur le
              Cantique des Cantiques." <I>Revue bénédictine</I> 101 (1991): 219 - 239.

              As I do not have French ( or access to this publication ) perhaps someone
              who has both could provide a precis?

              Regards

              Maurice

              Maurice A. O'Sullivan [ Bray, Ireland ]
              mauros@...
            • Yuri Kuchinsky
              ... From: Maurice A. O Sullivan To: Jim West Cc: synoptic-l@bham.ac.uk Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] mary magdalene Date:
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 6, 2000
                ----------
                From: Maurice A. O'Sullivan <mauros@...>
                To: Jim West <jwest@...>
                Cc: synoptic-l@...
                Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] mary magdalene
                Date: Monday, June 05, 2000 12:35 PM

                ...

                Raymond F. Collins, in the Anchor Bible Dictionary, makes an important
                point about a divergence between East and West on the person of Mary
                Magdalene:

                >>From about the 6th century in the Western Church, but not in the
                Eastern, traditions developed which tended to identify Mary Magdalene with
                the sinful woman of Luke 7:36–50 and/or Mary of Bethany (John 11:1–12:8;
                Luke 10:38–42), but there is no historical evidence on which to base such
                identifications. Indeed, the weight of evidence of the canonical gospels
                would seem to militate against such identifications.
                Undoubtedly the unsavory reputation of the city of Magdala contributed to
                the identification of Mary Magdalene and the woman of Luke 7:36–50. <<<<

                ************
                YURI replies:

                Dear Maurice,

                This subject was touched upon on Synoptic-L recently, of course. I have
                presented detailed arguments why I think that the Pepysian Gospel (PG)
                presents the earliest version of the Anointing Scene, a version that is
                closely paralleled in Lk. In PG, this scene serves primarily as a moral
                tale (with a conclusion rather different from Lk), but also serves the
                double purpose as the scene of the conversion of Mary (the call to
                discipleship).

                I further proposed the following sequence of development for this scene,

                Source of PG -> Lk -> Mt/Mk -> Jn.

                So here's my long article dealing with this subject,

                http://www.egroups.com/message/synoptic-l/4214

                I have not received much comment about this so far, so if someone can offer
                additional comments, I will be grateful.

                The article by Collins from the Anchor Bible Dictionary that you cite is
                rather puzzling. How is it possible to suppose that "the traditions which
                tended to identify Mary Magdalene with
                the sinful woman of Luke 7:36–50" developed in the Western Church only in
                the 6th century, and that such traditions did not even exist in the Eastern
                Church? Because this same passage in Lk informs us quite clearly that
                "seven demons had gone out" of Mary, called Magdalene (Lk 8:2). And the
                close proximity of this piece of information to the the Anointing Scene
                should make us strongly suspect, at least, that these two items are
                related.

                In any case, the new information from PG that I've outlined seems to make
                it rather clear that these two items are related. So then Collins is
                refuted by my analysis.

                As I say, I would be grateful for any further comments,

                Best wishes,

                Yuri.

                Yuri Kuchinsky | Toronto | http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm

                Biblical history list http://www.egroups.com/group/loisy - unmoderated

                The goal proposed by Cynic philosophy is apathy, which is
                equivalent to becoming God -=O=- Julian
              • Maluflen@aol.com
                In a message dated 6/6/2000 11:14:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mauros@iol.ie writes:
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 14, 2000
                  In a message dated 6/6/2000 11:14:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mauros@...
                  writes:

                  << Be that as it may, the title that most intrigues me is:
                  Saxer, Victor. "Marie Madeleine dans le commentaire d'Hippolyte sur le
                  Cantique des Cantiques." Revue bénédictine 101 (1991): 219 - 239.

                  As I do not have French ( or access to this publication ) perhaps someone
                  who has both could provide a precis?
                  >>
                  In a message dated 6/6/2000 11:14:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mauros@...
                  writes:

                  << Be that as it may, the title that most intrigues me is:
                  Saxer, Victor. "Marie Madeleine dans le commentaire d'Hippolyte sur le
                  Cantique des Cantiques." Revue bénédictine 101 (1991): 219 - 239.

                  As I do not have French ( or access to this publication ) perhaps someone
                  who has both could provide a precis?>>

                  At the time I read the above, I was living at what is equivalently the world
                  headquarters of the Benedictine Confederation, Collegio di Sant'Anselmo in
                  Rome; accordingly, I felt obliged to track down this article in the library,
                  which I did. I never got it copied, so I don't have it in front of me as I
                  write, but the following notes I took (reading through it very hastily) might
                  be helpful.

                  The article has the following subdivisions:

                  1. Hippolytus' Commentary on the Song of Songs;
                  2.The Passage on Magdalene;
                  3. Hyppolytus' exegesis in the commentary;
                  4. Magdalene in the commentary;

                  The passage on Mary Magdalene is found in chapters 24 and 25 of the
                  commentary, containing H's comments on Song of Songs 3:1-4. The Greek text
                  has not survived (and it is also thought by most scholars, according to
                  Saxer, that the Hyppolytus who wrote this commentary is not the same person
                  as the second century Hyppolytus who was making headlines in the West, but a
                  roughly contemporary writer, with the same name, in the East). Saxer gives a
                  French translation of the entire passage (the first ever, as far as he knows)
                  based on a Latin version (by Gerard Garrite), itself based on Georgian and
                  Armenian originals, and an English translation by Stewart Dingwell Fordyce
                  Salmond in 1868. The style of the passage is somewhere between the
                  testimonial form and a commentary proper, and in particular it comments on
                  Song of Songs 3:1-4 by paralleling it with Jn 20:11-18. Luke 24:1-5, as well
                  as the Matthean version of the women at the tomb story are also clearly used
                  by H. (My impression is that nothing distinctive is taken from the Gospel of
                  Mark, though Saxer cites Mark a couple of times, in passages that have a
                  Matthean parallel). A few more points:


                  1. Nothing at all is said about the women who appear in the various Synoptic
                  stories that speak about anointing Jesus' head or feet during his lifetime.
                  Only the tomb narratives are exploited.

                  2. We do find here for the first time a reference to the women at the tomb as
                  "apostles of the apostles ".

                  3. Hyppolytus is not interested in Mary Magdalene, or even the women as a
                  group, in themselves: they are, for him, a symbol of the Church (which he
                  calls "the Synagogue", so, clearly thinking of Judeo-Christianity);

                  4. Strangely, he often refers to the women in the plural, without naming any
                  names, even when apparently following the text of Jn 20, which speaks only of
                  M.M.

                  5. Where he does give names, Hyppolytus usually mentions two women, Martha
                  (!) and Mary Magdalene, in that order, and at one point, if I remember
                  correctly, he actually mentions Martha alone.

                  Perhaps my memory would be further jogged if anyone has questions on the
                  above. In general, though, I suspect that the passage is less interesting
                  than might have been thought from the title of Saxer's article.

                  Leonard Maluf
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.