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Re: [Synoptic-L] Scrolls of Paul's letters or synoptic gospels?

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  • Yuri Kuchinsky
    ... Brian, First of all, around AD 36/37, Jewish refugees, early members of the Jesus movement, fled from Jerusalem to all kinds of places, and not only to
    Message 1 of 73 , May 4, 2000
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      ----------
      > From: Brian E. Wilson <brian@...>
      > To: Synoptic-L@...
      > Subject: [Synoptic-L] Scrolls of Paul's letters or synoptic gospels?
      > Date: Wednesday, May 03, 2000 4:56 PM

      ...

      > It seems we agree that the early Christian theology of the Jewish
      > refugees who fled for their lives to Antioch in Syria around AD 36/37
      > had something to do with a very strong belief about Jesus who had been
      > crucified and who is nevertheless proclaimed as Lord, this resulting in
      > the start of the Greek-speaking Gentile Christian movement spreading out
      > from Antioch in Syria.

      Brian,

      First of all, around AD 36/37, Jewish refugees, early members of the Jesus
      movement, fled from Jerusalem to all kinds of places, and not only to
      Antioch. Let's not oversimplify these things. I don't see why Antioch
      should be so privileged in this respect.

      Secondly, from the point of view of timing, and of various other things,
      the start of the Greek-speaking Gentile Christian movement remains highly
      problematic. We've already been through a discussion of the problem of
      godfearers, and this discussion continued for a while also on Loisy List
      where additional material was presented. The biggest outstanding questions
      remain,

      - To what extent the laws of Moses (Jewish halachic laws) were obligatory
      for all Gentile converts to Judaism in 1st century? Which laws? Were there
      significant regional and local variations?
      - When exactly the laws of Moses started to be seen as irrelevant for
      Christians? And again, which laws, and were there significant regional and
      local variations?

      Simply to assume that it all happened in Antioch, and ca AD 36/37
      would be quite baseless, and cannot be considered as serious historical
      scholarship.

      So the only thing that we appear to agree on so far is that all early
      members of the Jesus movement had a very strong belief about Jesus who had
      been crucified and who was nevertheless proclaimed as Lord. For my own
      part, I doubt that the laws of Moses started to be seen as generally
      irrelevant for Christians much before 100.

      Regards,

      Yuri.

      Yuri Kuchinsky | Toronto | http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm

      Biblical history list http://www.egroups.com/group/loisy - unmoderated

      The goal proposed by Cynic philosophy is apathy, which is
      equivalent to becoming God -=O=- Julian
    • Thomas R. W. Longstaff
      This discussion of whether New Testament documents were written on scrolls or codices has gone on for a long time (among a small number of participants). Most
      Message 73 of 73 , May 19, 2000
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        This discussion of whether New Testament documents were written on scrolls
        or codices has gone on for a long time (among a small number of
        participants). Most of us have lost track of the significance of the
        discussion for understanding the synoptic gospels. It seems to me that
        exchanges such as the one below are becoming more frequent in this thread
        and add little of substance to our work together.

        I'd like to remind you of our purpose. "Synoptic-L is an academic list
        devoted to scholarly discussion of the Synoptic Gospels. Its purpose is to
        provide a forum for questions relating to the exegesis of Matthew, Mark and
        / or Luke, using and analysing the standard critical tools and methods,
        with a special emphasis on the interrelationships among the Synoptics."
        While I agree with Mark Goodacre that we often need to "lighten up a bit"
        and not take ourselves too seriously, and while I certainly think that a
        little banter now and then is a good thing, there comes a point when we
        need to recognize, especially in a thread that has gone on this long, that
        one should ask, "do my comments here make a serious contribution to the
        ongoing discussion for which this list has been created?" Remember that you
        are asking hundreds of colleagues to devote some their time to reading what
        you have written.

        I'd like to ask that colleagues pause a moment before "firing off"
        responses such as these, perhaps to raise the kind of questions that I do
        above.

        Thomas R. W. Longstaff
        Crawford Family Professor of Religious Studies
        Colby College, Waterville, ME 04901 USA
        Member of the Advisory Committee of Synoptic-L


        At 06:21 PM 5/19/00 +0100, Jacob Knee wrote:
        >I hypothesize that Philemon was written on a roll. Which fact disconfirms
        >this hypothesis.
        >
        >Jacob Knee
        >(Boston, England)
        >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: owner-synoptic-l@... [mailto:owner-synoptic-l@...]On
        > > Behalf Of Brian E. Wilson
        > > Sent: 19 May 2000 11:29
        > > To: Synoptic-L@...
        > > Subject: [Synoptic-L] Philemon
        > >
        > >
        >
        > > You also state that "the burden of proof is on the one with the
        > > extraordinary hypothesis to come up with the clear and convincing
        > > evidence". I think this is the most revealing statement you make. There
        > > is no burden of proof on anyone. Proof enters nowhere whatsoever into
        > > this matter. The idea that Paul wrote Philemon on a codex is a
        > > **hypothesis**. If you want to shoot down a hypothesis there is one, and
        > > only one way of doing so. That is to point to an observed phenomenon
        > > which is a difficulty for the hypothesis. I am still waiting for you to
        > > point to such an observed phenomenon.
        > >
        > > Best wishes,
        > > BRIAN WILSON
        > >
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