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Re: [Synoptic-L] early version of Transfiguration?

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  • Yuri Kuchinsky
    ... argued ... trying ... have ... features? ... Great many early readings, Larry. Possibly pre-canonic. ... Some early source. ... I think they ve done a
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 15, 2000
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      ----------
      > From: L. J. Swain <x99swain@...>
      > To: yuku@...
      > Cc: Synoptic-L@...; Loisy List <loisy@egroups.com>
      > Subject: Re: [Synoptic-L] early version of Transfiguration?
      > Date: Monday, March 13, 2000 6:10 PM
      >
      > Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:
      >
      > > This is in reply to some of the questions asked by Larry Swain.
      > >
      > > Yes, the Pepysian Harmony does demonstrate many early features, as
      argued
      > > e.g. by both Petersen and Boismard.
      > >
      >
      > At this point I'm not even disagreeing with your suggestion so much as
      trying
      > to get you to do some of the basic groundwork. Ok, Petersen and Boismard
      have
      > argued that PH demonstrates many early features. What are those
      features?
      > How important are they?

      Great many early readings, Larry. Possibly pre-canonic.

      > Where did they come from--that is, did they come from
      > the source of this manuscript, or from some other source?

      Some early source.

      > How did you
      > determine this? Did Petersen and Boismard do their homework? Did they
      > overlook something? Or put too much weight on something?

      I think they've done a competent job.

      > And then one must
      > needs move beyond discussing the manuscript to discussing this saying:
      is it
      > likely to have been a preservation from a very early reading? Why? Why
      not?
      > How do you answer the negatives?

      The saying has an early feeling about it. Of course to demonsrate that it's
      early, more work needs to be done, such as comparing the passage with other
      early harmonies of which there are many.

      > > As to the textual family of this harmony, it is quite a unique text.
      It's
      > > dated paleographically to ca 1400. Only one copy of it exists. It is
      > > believed to have been translated from the French, but this is not
      certain.
      > > No such French text is known to exist.
      >
      > So a unique text, that doesn't show any real attachment to any known text
      > family of a harmony

      Incorrect, Larry. It shows an affinity with Justin's harmony.

      > shows up about 1400 and purportedly has more original
      > material than manuscripts that are very early?

      That's what Petersen and Boismard argue.

      > Possible, its been known to
      > happen, but just on the surface it does stretch credulity without
      supporting
      > argumentation.

      They provide abundant argumentation.

      > So even if no French exemplar exists can it be traced a step
      > further back to a Latin source?

      Most likely a Latin source stands behind it. But, as I say, PH shows clear
      affinities with Justin's harmony and some other primitive harmonies, such
      as Liege and Venetian. See Boismard, p. 66.

      > > Boismard has identified a number of parallels between PH and certain
      > > pre-Diatesaronic harmonistic texts such as that mysterious harmony used
      by
      > > Justin.
      >
      > Which pre-Diastersaronic texts? Could the parallels with Justin actually
      have
      > Justin as the source? Why not? Some other intermediate source?

      As Tatian was a student of Justin, Justin's harmony most likely provided
      the basis for Tatian's Diatessaron.

      > > Very little scholarship on PH has been done. Until recently this text
      has
      > > been mostly neglected by textual scholars. In fact the ms had been
      > > erroneously catalogued and its unusual contents were first discovered
      by a
      > > researcher in Cambridge only in 1902.
      >
      > Not the first time this has happened to a manuscript. Ok, so the field
      is
      > wide open on this one, or close to it anyway. Sounds like a lot of
      ground
      > work yet needs to be done before drawing conclusions that the manuscript
      > contains original material or better readings than other manuscripts.

      A lot of work has already been done, but a lot more also needs to be done.

      Regards,

      Yuri Kuchinsky | Toronto | http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm

      Biblical history list http://www.egroups.com/group/loisy - unmoderated

      The goal proposed by Cynic philosophy is apathy, which is
      equivalent to becoming God -=O=- Julian
    • Jeffrey B. Gibson
      ... Um, pardon my ignorance, but do we actually **have** Justin s Harmony? And if we don t, how can the claim be made that the Harmony you speak of has an
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 15, 2000
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        Yuri Kuchinsky wrote:

        > > So a unique text, that doesn't show any real attachment to any known text
        > > family of a harmony
        >
        > Incorrect, Larry. It shows an affinity with Justin's harmony.
        >

        Um, pardon my ignorance, but do we actually **have** Justin's Harmony? And if
        we don't, how can the claim be made that the Harmony you speak of has an
        affinity with it?

        > > shows up about 1400 and purportedly has more original
        > > material than manuscripts that are very early?
        >
        > That's what Petersen and Boismard argue.
        >

        I'd like to check this. May we have a citation from their works where they
        argue this, please?

        JG
        --
        Jeffrey B. Gibson
        7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
        Chicago, Illinois 60626
        e-mail jgibson000@...
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