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Re: [Synoptic-L] Christmas

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  • Jeffrey B. Gibson
    ... But as I have noted (in a post that just crossed yours), it does so **only** if 2 Cor 8:9 is a reference to the incarnation. But, as Dunn and others have
    Message 1 of 38 , Dec 11, 1999
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      "Thomas R. W. Longstaff" wrote:

      > At 09:41 AM 12/11/99 +0000, Brian E. Wilson wrote:
      > >Brian Wilson wrote -
      > > >
      > >"I was wondering about -
      > > >
      > > >2 Corinthians 8.9 - "For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ,
      > > >that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor."
      > > >
      > >Does this make sense if Paul did not know something like the "Christmas
      > >story" of Matthew/Luke?"
      >
      > Yes, I think it does make sense (or seems to). For example:
      >
      > Although this discussion of Pauline theology is somewhat far afield from a
      > consideration of the synoptic gospels, after reading Wilson's question I
      > asked myself, almost at once, whether 2 Corinthians 8.9 might reflect
      > something similar to what we find in Philippians 2.4ff.

      But as I have noted (in a post that just crossed yours), it does so **only**
      if 2 Cor 8:9 is a reference to the incarnation. But, as Dunn and others have
      pointed out, despite the number of commentators who have assumed it is, this
      is by no means certain (as is the case, by the way, of Philippians 2:4ff, as
      well -- see Dunn, _Christology in the Making_, 114-121). There **are** other
      ways of reading this (and the Philippians) text.

      In any case, I invite anyone interested in this to moot (and/or discuss) the
      issue on Corpus Paulinum.

      Yours,

      Jeffrey.
      --
      Jeffrey B. Gibson
      7423 N. Sheridan Road #2A
      Chicago, Illinois 60626
      e-mail jgibson000@...
    • Steven Craig Miller
      To: Mark Preece,
      Message 38 of 38 , Dec 16, 1999
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        To: Mark Preece,

        << The author seems to be going to some lengths to establish that this all
        happens in a very compressed period of time -- in fact, on a single day. In
        light of this, is it really plausible to think "DE" ("then he led them
        out...") means anything other than "very soon thereafter"? Certainly not
        "many days later". >>

        The issue as I see it is whether one is going to accuse Luke here of
        inconsistency (and I have no problem with doing that) or impression. My
        suggestion is not that DE means "many days later," only that it means
        "but/and/then" and that Luke could have used it merely to imply that this
        event recorded in Lk 24:50 also took place. It seems to me that to be fair
        the charge of inconsistency demands a higher threshold than the accusation
        of impression (or ambiguity). Then, after you accuse Luke of inconsistency,
        you seem to want to suggest that Luke didn't care for historical details.
        Frankly, an ambiguous example as this simply can't prove such a conclusion.
        Your example would carry more weight if Luke had written, "and on this day"
        (or some such). But he didn't, all Luke wrote was "and" (DE).
        Unfortunately, the Greek particle DE doesn't tell us when.

        Also, I find it kind of ironic that one can suggest that Luke might not be
        concerned with historical details in light of such passages as Lk 1:1-4;
        2:1-2; and 3:23-38. Now here is a guy (and I assume that the author of
        Luke's gospel was male) who attempts to record Jesus' genealogy from his
        papa and grand-papa, all the way back, generation by generation, to Adam
        and ultimately to God! He obviously cares for such details, or he wouldn't
        have put them into his gospel.

        -Steven Craig Miller
        Alton, Illinois (USA)
        scmiller@...
        Disclaimer: "I'm just a simple house-husband (with no post-grad degree),
        what do I know?"
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