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Re: [Fwd: EBRAIDI DIALEKTW]

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  • Mark Matson
    On NOV 22, Larry Swain wrote, in response to Jack Kilmon: ... I, too, have problems with this. It is even more popular to apply to the gospel of John, with
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 25, 1998
      On NOV 22, Larry Swain wrote, in response to Jack Kilmon:

      JACK:
      > > I think it is very possible that the Matthean scribe wrote his gospel
      > > in response to the institution of the Birkhat haMinim in 85CE.

      LARRY:
      > I have some problems with this. The Birkhat haMinim issued from Javneh,
      > a body which more school than court or authoritative body issuing
      > commands that Judaism(s) then followed and cast out anyone claiming to
      > be Christian, and the other 23 classes of Minim. I have some
      > interesting bibliography on this somewhere if you're interested.

      I, too, have problems with this. It is even more popular to apply to
      the gospel of John, with its "aposunagoges" in John 9. J. Louis
      Martyn made this the cornerstone of his two-level reading in History
      and Theology in the Fourth Gospel, a very important book. One
      problem, as Larry notes, is that it is very unlikely that the council
      and Javneh (Jamnia) would have issued authoritative pronouncements,
      especially so early in the development of rabbinic judaism (remember,
      this is the reconstruction of judaism from pharisaism, after the
      destruction of the temple). But just as important is the evidence
      that there was, in fact, early evidence of jewish opposition to the
      church --- unless we completely discount Acts and the story of Paul
      before his conversion, or the accounts of Paul's encounters in his
      missions. So opposition to the church from some jewish quarters
      apparently began early. We don't need the birkhat ha minim, which
      may not have been extensively used, and may never have intended to
      single out christians, as the precipitating cause of an anti-jewish
      backlash in the gospels.

      JACK:
      > > The only problem I have with this paradigm for the LOGIA is
      > > that it does NOT read LOGOI so it may instead refer to a
      > > primitive Aramaic written narrative. This is where Papias'
      > > association or participation in 4G intrigues me since I am
      > > convinced that a primitive Aramaic narrative lies imbedded
      > > in 4G..a "proto-John/Signs" gospel, if you will. I have been
      > > working on extracting that primitive "core" of 4G and
      > > retroverting it to Aramaic to look for tell-tale patterns.
      > >
      > > Could "proto-John" have been Papias' "LOGIA?"

      LARRY:
      > Well, it would be interesting to look at the reconstructions of the
      > "signs gospel" and proto-John and see what comparisons can be made to
      > M.

      I think you will find few connections with M. But you will find
      extensive connections between the signs gospel and Luke.

      Mark Matson

      Mark A. Matson, Ph.D.
      Asst. Director, Sanford Institute of Public Policy
      Adjunct Professor of New Testament
      Duke University
      Durham, NC 27713
      (919) 613-7310
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