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Re: Jesus and his death

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  • Stevan Davies
    ... STEVE I think of Martin Luther King. Perhaps Rev. King was aware of the substantial possibility of assassination. Perhaps he mentioned it more than once.
    Message 1 of 1 , Oct 29, 1998
      > >LEONARD: . . . Can it simply and certainly be
      > >stated that Jesus did not have a passion-oriented perspective? The threefold
      > >(actually, in Matt, the five-fold) passion predictions in the Synoptic
      > >tradition certainly reflect some post-Easter development, but is it likely,
      > >even historically, that Jesus thought nothing about the possibility of an
      > >impending death? Is a future violent death not a possibility that would have
      > >been logically suggested to anyone by some of the more virulent opposition to
      > >Jesus' message and work, which may have begun even relatively early in his
      > >ministry? And what about the death of John the Baptist?

      STEVE
      I think of Martin Luther King. Perhaps Rev. King was aware of the
      substantial possibility of assassination. Perhaps he mentioned it
      more than once.
      To think that this was a significant part of his intention or life's
      work or "message" does not follow. Nor does it allow one to
      assert a "passion oriented perspective" for Rev. King. Not his
      own passion anyhow.

      JEFF
      > The suggestion of Leonard and Bob that Jesus reflected on the possibility
      > and significance of his death finds support in the strong multiple
      > attestation of the Last Supper tradition, appearing both in the Synoptics
      > and in Paul (1 Cor 11:23ff) with a couple of veiled allusions in John
      > chaps. 6 and 13. The tradition Paul retails is presented as a report he
      > "received," which read by analogy with 15:3ff would suggest Paul's
      > introduction to the Christian community (ca. 33) as the terminus ad quem;

      He received the tradition "from the Lord" which, one should, I think,
      understand in terms of a private revelation and not from the lips of
      Jesus. He did not receive it "from the apostles" or whatever unless
      he equates the apostles etc. with "the Lord." He doesn't do this
      in Gal 1-2 anyhow.

      >The case is fully prosecuted by
      > E. P. Sanders (in Sanders and Davies, _Studying the Synoptic Gospels_, p.
      > 329), who concludes that "This is my body" and some form of the saying over
      > the wine are "as reliable as any in the gospels" (p. 330).

      Except that we have what appears to be the statement by a very
      influential man that he received a private revelation, one which was
      known to Mark and dependently adopted by Lk and Mk. Paul's
      "I received from the Lord" appears to be 'eyewitness' testimony to
      the origin of the tradition.

      Steve
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