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[Synoptic-L] The Apostilic Commission and the Synoptics: the staff, the bread, and the money

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  • Richard Richmond
    Return of the twelve Mark As he went ashore he saw a great crowd He had compassion on them for they were like sheep without a shepherd (remember the staffs)
    Message 1 of 2 , Jun 30, 2005
      Return of the twelve Mark
      As he went ashore he saw a great crowd
      He had compassion on them for they were like sheep
      without a shepherd (remember the staffs)
      Shall we send them away?
      You give them something to eat!(do the work of
      shepherd)
      Shall we take 200 denarii and buy bread (reveals they
      have money)
      How many loaves have you, Go and see
      Knowing, they say 5 (reveals they have bread) they
      don’t have to go and see they know (intentional bread)
      They are acting contrary to their commission


      Return Luke
      He took them to Bethsaida (house of fish)
      The twelve came and said to him Send them away, this
      is a desolate place (it is a village?)
      You give them something to eat!
      We have no more than five loaves, unless we go and by
      bread for all these people
      (no more than five as though the number is uncertain
      money is less obvious here and no amount is mentioned)
      the offence is almost negated


      Return Matt.
      When it was evening
      This is a lonely place send them away
      Jesus said they need not go away, you give them
      something to eat. (Harshness toward disciples is gone)
      We have only fives loaves here
      Bring them here
      No money mentioned or offer to buy bread from the
      disciples (Matt. Had removed the contrast completely
      no guilt for the disciples in his account.

      Luke repeats Jesus harsh statement (you give them
      something to eat)Matthew choose to eliminate the
      harshness.


      In summary, the issues at hand are extremely important
      to all three evangelist. These issues relate to the
      Apostolic commission. And they involve many factors,
      but three very important factors stand out;
      The shepherd staff, the bread the and money. All three
      of these issues are themes running through the Gospel
      of Mark and often reacted to by Matthew and Luke. If
      we understand that Matthew grows out of the Cephas
      faction and Luke out of the Circumcision Party their
      reaction to Mark is parallel to the reaction of Peter
      and The circumcision party to Paul's teaching to which
      Mark adheres.

      The issues behind these symbols are as follows:

      1.) shepherd staff: Apostolic authority and the
      ability to feed the sheep.

      2.) loaves: Is the food for the sheep bread (Word)
      from God or is God present in the physical bread of
      the Eucharist? The Eucharist of the Agape feast
      evolves from the bread of Essenes which in turn has
      its origins in the temple bread of the setting forth
      or presence. Matthew's position is presented in this
      quote: 'Jesus said to them, "Have you not read what
      David did, when he was hungry, and those who were with
      him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the
      bread of the Presence, which it was not awful for him
      to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for
      the priests?" Note that this statement is in the
      present tense indicating that it still applies in
      Matthews day.

      3.) money = how are the apostles' needs to be met? Are
      they to be paid like the temple priests or are they to
      simply rely on the generosity and hospitality of the
      people to whom they minister.

      Of course all of these issues appear as conflicts in
      the Pauline epistles. The challenge to Paul's
      apostilic authority and to his right to draw support
      from his ministry. The issue of the bread is there but
      it is more difficult to see. Preaching to gentiles
      without making them Jewish Proslyetes is part of the
      issue of bread. Ceremonial washing before partaking of
      the Eucharist and giving the children's bread to the
      (Greeks)dogs is how Mark illustates this issue. It was
      Paul that likend false teaching to leaven in the loaf.


      The group that gained control in the movement was the
      Cephas faction, and for that reason Peter became the
      first in rank of the twelve (another Essene tradtion)
      and the Christ chosen leader so that the Gospel of
      Matthew came to dominate the movement. At Antioch the
      Cephas Faction and the Christ party found common
      ground against Paul. This comaptibility was centered
      around similarities with Essene teaching that amounted
      to Judaism without the temple. The winners aways get
      to write the history, the evidence of who won is the
      Roman Catholic Church where the priesthood is seperate
      from the rest of the crowd and only the priest can
      administer the Eucharist. Like the temple priests they
      are a seperate class and paid clergy. The Roman church
      would not have allowed the common people (wolves as
      Matthew calls them)to read the Scripture had it not
      been for Luther and the Prostestant Reformation.

      I have a complete treatment of this material that
      deals with the connection between the four factions of
      1Corinthians and our four cannonical Gospels that I
      hope to publish with God's help in 2006.

      Rick Richmond rickr2889@...

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    • John N. Lupia
      Dear Rick: Your take on this is that the sending out of the twelve was an exercise that lasted about an hour or so. The twelve regrouped with Jesus and they
      Message 2 of 2 , Jul 1 6:40 AM
        Dear Rick:

        Your take on this is that the sending out of the twelve was an exercise that
        lasted about an hour or so. The twelve regrouped with Jesus and they went
        off shortly encountering the hungry crowd. This interpretation is held by no
        serious researcher.

        The mission of the twelve in Lk 9:1-6; Mt 10:5:16; Mk 6:7-13 lasted for at least
        several days if not several weeks. This implication is inherent in the texts.
        Take for example, Mk 6:10 "Where you enter a house, stay there until you
        leave the place." a charge to preach in a small village, town or city where they
        were to stay in only one home as a guest while preaching there. This is
        recorded earlier in Mt 10: 11 "And whatever town or village you enter, find out
        who is worthy in it, and stay with him until you depart. " Taken from Lk 6:4
        "And whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart." Now Mt
        mentions the towns cited in Lk 6:5 and villages that Lk 6: 6.

        Mk omits the mention of any towns or villages. Being a later Gospel directed
        to the Roman Church he means cities, implied by the late context of his
        writing characterized by the mentioning of the sacrament of the anointing of
        the sick, and portrayal of shod men carrying staves, something one should
        expect for a city traveler in Rome.

        With best regards,
        John N. Lupia, III

        --- In synoptic-l@yahoogroups.com, Richard Richmond <rickr2889@y...>
        wrote:
        > Return of the twelve Mark
        > As he went ashore he saw a great crowd
        > He had compassion on them for they were like sheep
        > without a shepherd (remember the staffs)
        > Shall we send them away?
        > You give them something to eat!(do the work of
        > shepherd)
        > Shall we take 200 denarii and buy bread (reveals they
        > have money)
        > How many loaves have you, Go and see
        > Knowing, they say 5 (reveals they have bread) they
        > don't have to go and see they know (intentional bread)
        > They are acting contrary to their commission
        >
        >
        > Return Luke
        > He took them to Bethsaida (house of fish)
        > The twelve came and said to him Send them away, this
        > is a desolate place (it is a village?)
        > You give them something to eat!
        > We have no more than five loaves, unless we go and by
        > bread for all these people
        > (no more than five as though the number is uncertain
        > money is less obvious here and no amount is mentioned)
        > the offence is almost negated
        >
        >
        > Return Matt.
        > When it was evening
        > This is a lonely place send them away
        > Jesus said they need not go away, you give them
        > something to eat. (Harshness toward disciples is gone)
        > We have only fives loaves here
        > Bring them here
        > No money mentioned or offer to buy bread from the
        > disciples (Matt. Had removed the contrast completely
        > no guilt for the disciples in his account.
        >
        > Luke repeats Jesus harsh statement (you give them
        > something to eat)Matthew choose to eliminate the
        > harshness.
        >
        >
        > In summary, the issues at hand are extremely important
        > to all three evangelist. These issues relate to the
        > Apostolic commission. And they involve many factors,
        > but three very important factors stand out;
        > The shepherd staff, the bread the and money. All three
        > of these issues are themes running through the Gospel
        > of Mark and often reacted to by Matthew and Luke. If
        > we understand that Matthew grows out of the Cephas
        > faction and Luke out of the Circumcision Party their
        > reaction to Mark is parallel to the reaction of Peter
        > and The circumcision party to Paul's teaching to which
        > Mark adheres.
        >
        > The issues behind these symbols are as follows:
        >
        > 1.) shepherd staff: Apostolic authority and the
        > ability to feed the sheep.
        >
        > 2.) loaves: Is the food for the sheep bread (Word)
        > from God or is God present in the physical bread of
        > the Eucharist? The Eucharist of the Agape feast
        > evolves from the bread of Essenes which in turn has
        > its origins in the temple bread of the setting forth
        > or presence. Matthew's position is presented in this
        > quote: 'Jesus said to them, "Have you not read what
        > David did, when he was hungry, and those who were with
        > him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the
        > bread of the Presence, which it was not awful for him
        > to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for
        > the priests?" Note that this statement is in the
        > present tense indicating that it still applies in
        > Matthews day.
        >
        > 3.) money = how are the apostles' needs to be met? Are
        > they to be paid like the temple priests or are they to
        > simply rely on the generosity and hospitality of the
        > people to whom they minister.
        >
        > Of course all of these issues appear as conflicts in
        > the Pauline epistles. The challenge to Paul's
        > apostilic authority and to his right to draw support
        > from his ministry. The issue of the bread is there but
        > it is more difficult to see. Preaching to gentiles
        > without making them Jewish Proslyetes is part of the
        > issue of bread. Ceremonial washing before partaking of
        > the Eucharist and giving the children's bread to the
        > (Greeks)dogs is how Mark illustates this issue. It was
        > Paul that likend false teaching to leaven in the loaf.
        >
        >
        > The group that gained control in the movement was the
        > Cephas faction, and for that reason Peter became the
        > first in rank of the twelve (another Essene tradtion)
        > and the Christ chosen leader so that the Gospel of
        > Matthew came to dominate the movement. At Antioch the
        > Cephas Faction and the Christ party found common
        > ground against Paul. This comaptibility was centered
        > around similarities with Essene teaching that amounted
        > to Judaism without the temple. The winners aways get
        > to write the history, the evidence of who won is the
        > Roman Catholic Church where the priesthood is seperate
        > from the rest of the crowd and only the priest can
        > administer the Eucharist. Like the temple priests they
        > are a seperate class and paid clergy. The Roman church
        > would not have allowed the common people (wolves as
        > Matthew calls them)to read the Scripture had it not
        > been for Luther and the Prostestant Reformation.
        >
        > I have a complete treatment of this material that
        > deals with the connection between the four factions of
        > 1Corinthians and our four cannonical Gospels that I
        > hope to publish with God's help in 2006.
        >
        > Rick Richmond rickr2889@y...
        >
        > __________________________________________________
        > Do You Yahoo!?
        > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        > http://mail.yahoo.com
        >
        > Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        > List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@b...



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