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RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

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  • John C. Poirier
    ... These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is the mother of Christianity should cause such a stir. ... I m not sure about prefer , but
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
      Jacob Knee wrote:

      > B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as 'grotesque oriental
      > fancy' (p 419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is 'lurid', and
      > John's preaching of judgement is 'fervid'
      >
      > Both Streeter and Bacon to use Bacon's words think that 'the
      > Hellenistic Gospel [ie John] does...better justice than the
      > Synoptics to the true 'heart of Christ''

      These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is "the mother
      of Christianity" should cause such a stir.

      > Does Dodd prefer John too?

      I'm not sure about "prefer", but he does like John's gospel a lot.


      John C. Poirier
      Middletown, Ohio



      Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
      List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
    • Jacob Knee
      Streeter s 1911 essay at the end of Oxford Studies on Synoptic Criticism and the Eschatological Problem starts by saying what a great problem has been
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
        Streeter's 1911 essay at the end of 'Oxford Studies' on 'Synoptic Criticism
        and the Eschatological Problem' starts by saying what a 'great problem' has
        been 'acutely' forced upon scholars by the writings of 'Weiss, Schweitzer,
        Loisy and Tyrrell as to how far the Apocalyptic eschatology of the primitive
        Church really represented the mind of Christ.' (Not very much was his
        considered answer).

        On the other hand I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent
        collection, 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that
        F.C. Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer. Burkitt
        sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to see what of his
        was still in print.

        Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of himself,
        'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described Schweitzer's work as
        'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

        Best wishes,
        Jacob Knee
        (Cam, Glos)

        -----Original Message-----
        From: owner-synoptic-l@... [mailto:owner-synoptic-l@...] On
        Behalf Of John C. Poirier
        Sent: 25 February 2005 17:43
        To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
        Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

        Jacob Knee wrote:

        > B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as 'grotesque oriental
        > fancy' (p 419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is 'lurid', and
        > John's preaching of judgement is 'fervid'
        >
        > Both Streeter and Bacon to use Bacon's words think that 'the
        > Hellenistic Gospel [ie John] does...better justice than the
        > Synoptics to the true 'heart of Christ''

        These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is "the mother
        of Christianity" should cause such a stir.

        > Does Dodd prefer John too?

        I'm not sure about "prefer", but he does like John's gospel a lot.


        John C. Poirier
        Middletown, Ohio





        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
      • John C. Poirier
        ... What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it, and
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
          Jacob Knee wrote:

          > I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent collection,
          > 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that F.C.
          > Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer.
          > Burkitt sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to
          > see what of his was still in print.
          >
          > Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of
          > himself, 'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described
          > Schweitzer's work as 'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

          What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected
          Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it,
          and Inge to give it a warmer reception.

          In the words of Rod Stewart, "Look how wrong you can be."

          I wonder if there's an essay out there tracing scholarly opinions on
          apocalyptic, both pre- and post-Schweitzer.


          John C. Poirier
          Middletown, Ohio



          Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
          List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
        • Jacob Knee
          Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology in Edwardian England (JSNTS 208). FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
            Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology in
            Edwardian England (JSNTS 208).

            FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:

            http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/1841271853/qid=1109362886/sr=
            1-1/ref=sr_pb_a//104-3759134-6252714?condition=all

            Best wishes,
            Jacob Knee
            (Cam, Glos.)

            PS Usual disclaimers about no financial connection...


            -----Original Message-----
            From: John C. Poirier [mailto:poirier@...]
            Sent: 25 February 2005 19:27
            To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
            Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

            Jacob Knee wrote:

            > I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent collection,
            > 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that F.C.
            > Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer.
            > Burkitt sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to
            > see what of his was still in print.
            >
            > Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of
            > himself, 'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described
            > Schweitzer's work as 'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

            What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected
            Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it,
            and Inge to give it a warmer reception.

            In the words of Rod Stewart, "Look how wrong you can be."

            I wonder if there's an essay out there tracing scholarly opinions on
            apocalyptic, both pre- and post-Schweitzer.


            John C. Poirier
            Middletown, Ohio





            Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
            List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
          • John C. Poirier
            Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on Why the Enlightenment
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
              Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who
              wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on "Why the
              Enlightenment Project Doesn't Have to Fail" (both excellent reading, by the
              way)?

              John C. Poirier
              Middletown, Ohio


              Jacob Knee wrote:

              > Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology
              > in Edwardian England (JSNTS 208).
              >
              > FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:




              Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
              List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
            • Jacob Knee
              It is. He s Vice Principal of Ripon College, Cuddesdon an Anglican Theological College here in the UK. He s a bibliography to download if it s helpful. It
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
                It is. He's Vice Principal of Ripon College, Cuddesdon an Anglican
                Theological College here in the UK.


                He's a bibliography to download if it's helpful. It comes as an .rtf file
                (watch the wrap)

                http://www.oxford.anglican.org/rcc/Word_Documents/Mark_Chapman_publications.
                rtf

                Best wishes,
                Jacob Knee
                (Cam, Glos.)


                -----Original Message-----
                From: John C. Poirier [mailto:poirier@...]
                Sent: 25 February 2005 20:55
                To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
                Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

                Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who
                wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on "Why the
                Enlightenment Project Doesn't Have to Fail" (both excellent reading, by the
                way)?

                John C. Poirier
                Middletown, Ohio




                Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
                List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
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