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RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

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  • Jacob Knee
    B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as grotesque oriental fancy (p 419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is lurid , and John s preaching of judgement
    Message 1 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
      B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as 'grotesque oriental fancy' (p
      419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is 'lurid', and John's preaching of
      judgement is 'fervid'

      Both Streeter and Bacon to use Bacon's words think that 'the Hellenistic
      Gospel [ie John] does...better justice than the Synoptics to the true 'heart
      of Christ''

      Does Dodd prefer John too?

      Best wishes,
      Jacob Knee
      (Cam, Glos.)

      -----Original Message-----
      From: owner-synoptic-l@... [mailto:owner-synoptic-l@...] On
      Behalf Of John C. Poirier
      Sent: 25 February 2005 16:05
      To: 'Synoptic-L'
      Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

      Jacob Knee wrote:

      > Streeter isn't overly fond of this kind of apocalyptic imagery -
      > calling it at various points, 'naïve', 'crude' and the people
      > who use it ''wild' or 'fanatical'.

      It's interesting that Dodd uses these same derisive terms to characterize
      the pneumatology of Acts.


      John C. Poirier
      Middletown, Ohio



      Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
      List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...



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    • John C. Poirier
      ... These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is the mother of Christianity should cause such a stir. ... I m not sure about prefer , but
      Message 2 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
        Jacob Knee wrote:

        > B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as 'grotesque oriental
        > fancy' (p 419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is 'lurid', and
        > John's preaching of judgement is 'fervid'
        >
        > Both Streeter and Bacon to use Bacon's words think that 'the
        > Hellenistic Gospel [ie John] does...better justice than the
        > Synoptics to the true 'heart of Christ''

        These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is "the mother
        of Christianity" should cause such a stir.

        > Does Dodd prefer John too?

        I'm not sure about "prefer", but he does like John's gospel a lot.


        John C. Poirier
        Middletown, Ohio



        Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
        List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
      • Jacob Knee
        Streeter s 1911 essay at the end of Oxford Studies on Synoptic Criticism and the Eschatological Problem starts by saying what a great problem has been
        Message 3 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
          Streeter's 1911 essay at the end of 'Oxford Studies' on 'Synoptic Criticism
          and the Eschatological Problem' starts by saying what a 'great problem' has
          been 'acutely' forced upon scholars by the writings of 'Weiss, Schweitzer,
          Loisy and Tyrrell as to how far the Apocalyptic eschatology of the primitive
          Church really represented the mind of Christ.' (Not very much was his
          considered answer).

          On the other hand I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent
          collection, 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that
          F.C. Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer. Burkitt
          sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to see what of his
          was still in print.

          Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of himself,
          'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described Schweitzer's work as
          'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

          Best wishes,
          Jacob Knee
          (Cam, Glos)

          -----Original Message-----
          From: owner-synoptic-l@... [mailto:owner-synoptic-l@...] On
          Behalf Of John C. Poirier
          Sent: 25 February 2005 17:43
          To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
          Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

          Jacob Knee wrote:

          > B.W. Bacon memorably describes apocalypses as 'grotesque oriental
          > fancy' (p 419 Studies in Matthew), its imaqery is 'lurid', and
          > John's preaching of judgement is 'fervid'
          >
          > Both Streeter and Bacon to use Bacon's words think that 'the
          > Hellenistic Gospel [ie John] does...better justice than the
          > Synoptics to the true 'heart of Christ''

          These quotations help explain why the claim that apocalyptic is "the mother
          of Christianity" should cause such a stir.

          > Does Dodd prefer John too?

          I'm not sure about "prefer", but he does like John's gospel a lot.


          John C. Poirier
          Middletown, Ohio





          Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
          List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
        • John C. Poirier
          ... What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it, and
          Message 4 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
            Jacob Knee wrote:

            > I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent collection,
            > 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that F.C.
            > Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer.
            > Burkitt sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to
            > see what of his was still in print.
            >
            > Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of
            > himself, 'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described
            > Schweitzer's work as 'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

            What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected
            Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it,
            and Inge to give it a warmer reception.

            In the words of Rod Stewart, "Look how wrong you can be."

            I wonder if there's an essay out there tracing scholarly opinions on
            apocalyptic, both pre- and post-Schweitzer.


            John C. Poirier
            Middletown, Ohio



            Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
            List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
          • Jacob Knee
            Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology in Edwardian England (JSNTS 208). FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:
            Message 5 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
              Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology in
              Edwardian England (JSNTS 208).

              FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:

              http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/offer-listing/1841271853/qid=1109362886/sr=
              1-1/ref=sr_pb_a//104-3759134-6252714?condition=all

              Best wishes,
              Jacob Knee
              (Cam, Glos.)

              PS Usual disclaimers about no financial connection...


              -----Original Message-----
              From: John C. Poirier [mailto:poirier@...]
              Sent: 25 February 2005 19:27
              To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
              Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

              Jacob Knee wrote:

              > I learned in Dale Allison's excellent essay in the recent collection,
              > 'Apocalypticism, Anti-Semitism and the Historical Jesus' that F.C.
              > Burkitt was an enthusiastic supporter of Weiss and Schweitzer.
              > Burkitt sounded so interesting it made me actually look at Amazon to
              > see what of his was still in print.
              >
              > Finally, Dean Inge - always a bit of a rent-a-quote (as he said of
              > himself, 'Inge as in sting, not inge as in whinge') - described
              > Schweitzer's work as 'blasphemous' in 1910 review in JTS.

              What you say about both Burkitt and Inge surprises me: I would have expected
              Burkitt to give apocalyptic the same cold reception that Streeter gave it,
              and Inge to give it a warmer reception.

              In the words of Rod Stewart, "Look how wrong you can be."

              I wonder if there's an essay out there tracing scholarly opinions on
              apocalyptic, both pre- and post-Schweitzer.


              John C. Poirier
              Middletown, Ohio





              Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
              List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
            • John C. Poirier
              Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on Why the Enlightenment
              Message 6 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
                Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who
                wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on "Why the
                Enlightenment Project Doesn't Have to Fail" (both excellent reading, by the
                way)?

                John C. Poirier
                Middletown, Ohio


                Jacob Knee wrote:

                > Mark Chapman, The Coming Crisis: The Impact of Eschatology on Theology
                > in Edwardian England (JSNTS 208).
                >
                > FWIW available for $26 at Amazon.com:




                Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
                List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
              • Jacob Knee
                It is. He s Vice Principal of Ripon College, Cuddesdon an Anglican Theological College here in the UK. He s a bibliography to download if it s helpful. It
                Message 7 of 12 , Feb 25, 2005
                  It is. He's Vice Principal of Ripon College, Cuddesdon an Anglican
                  Theological College here in the UK.


                  He's a bibliography to download if it's helpful. It comes as an .rtf file
                  (watch the wrap)

                  http://www.oxford.anglican.org/rcc/Word_Documents/Mark_Chapman_publications.
                  rtf

                  Best wishes,
                  Jacob Knee
                  (Cam, Glos.)


                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: John C. Poirier [mailto:poirier@...]
                  Sent: 25 February 2005 20:55
                  To: 'Jacob Knee'; 'Synoptic-L'
                  Subject: RE: [Synoptic-L] streeter and matthean apocalyptic

                  Thanks, Jacob. Do you know whether this is this the same Mark Chapman who
                  wrote a book on Troeltsch and a Heythrop Journal article on "Why the
                  Enlightenment Project Doesn't Have to Fail" (both excellent reading, by the
                  way)?

                  John C. Poirier
                  Middletown, Ohio




                  Synoptic-L Homepage: http://www.bham.ac.uk/theology/synoptic-l
                  List Owner: Synoptic-L-Owner@...
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