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9768Re: [Synoptic-L] Jesus' Baptism

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  • Stuart Waugh
    Jun 2, 2004
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      Emmanuel,
       
      I did not say that I thought the baptism concept was late. To the contrary I believe it is amongst the earliest, perhaps even pre-Christian, concepts. I concur with Poirier's point about Luke 12:50, as example for Luke's concept of the Baptism.
       
      Rather I simply think - and this is what I stated - the concept that it was John who baptized Jesus was later, though not so late. The details and explanation of John's relationship to and "why-ness" of his baptizing Jesus, as spelled out in Matthew and John, that I think is a somewhat later development. It specifically answers theological questions that arose from the formula we see introduced (as) in Mark.
       
      Hum. Say a little and you almost have to say more than you want.
       
      - Stuart

      Emmanuel Fritsch <emmanuel.fritsch@...> wrote:

      My point of view :
      ** Baptism was a rite of first christians
      ** It was common to another religious group from which it was inspired (the
      group of John's disciple)
      ** Jesus was at the beginning a follower of John, and had been baptised
      ** The previous fact was known either by christians and John's
      followers, and John's
      followers were using it in a theological way, arguing that John was
      greater than Jesus
      ** Chrristians produced the account of Jesus baptism in order to answer
      them
      ** The whyness is in the christian character given to John (the voice,
      the prophet, etc.)
      ** The whyness is not perfect because the situation was not perfect for
      christians
      in their debating with John's followers. Resurection was for them
      a better
      arguments.

      As a corollary, I think, in opposition to Stuart Waugh, that baptism is a
      quite early stage (which look coherent with its large presence in gospels).

      a+
      manu


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