7475[Synoptic-L] a new approach to the correlations
- Jan 6, 2002Brian Wilson wrote --
>Dave Inglis comments --
>(Statement 2) A correlation shows a significant negative only if either
>(1) the two categories do not include the same gospel (for example,
>120/112), or (2) one category includes all three synoptists, and the
>other only Luke, or (3) one category includes Matthew and Mark but not
>Luke, and the other includes Mark and Luke but not Matthew.
>This statement is undeniably true, because it's been constructed that
On the contrary, the statement is falsifiable. I understand that
the data for Pi - Omega has been collated, and the full results may be
available soon. If these were to produce a negative correlation for,
say, 220-202, then this would be against all three conditions given
above. Dozens of other possible falsifications could be cited for
Statement 2, and also for Statement 1.
>I agree. That was what I intended.
>All current significant negatives meet one of the three conditions
>which is precisely why I stated the three conditions. I try not to write
>However, there are many other pairings of two categories that meet
>one of these conditions that do not have negative results
>Your argument cannot be valid since I have already predicted that
>so Statement (2) cannot be used to predict any results
220-202 will not be a significant negative when the full results are
available. Many other such predictions can be made.
>Since your simile refers to a false statement, the statement is
>It's like saying that all owls are birds. A true statement, but it
>doesn't help determine whether mice or salmon are birds.
presumably nothing like saying that all owls are birds.
>The observed correlations are not symmetrical with respect to the three
>However, Brian then explains the 3 cases above as follows:
>> Case (1) is accounted for by supposing that two different styles have
>> been imposed by two synoptists redacting differently, and case (2) by
>> supposing that the wording present in all three synoptists would be
>>in words significantly different from Luke's style since they would be
>> words common to the styles of all three and therefore lack many of
>>the distinguishing words in Luke, whereas the words in Luke only would
>>have retained the words of Luke's style, this having the same effect
>>as one category having been redacted by one synoptist, and the other
>>having been redacted by another, and case (3) by supposing that the
>>difference between the words of each category would have been the
>>difference between the style of Matthew and the style of Mark, and
>>that this would have had the same effect as one synoptist having
>>redacted one category of material, and another synoptist having
>>redacted the other.
>I have problems with both Case (2) and Case (3), because they are not
>symmetrical with respect to the three synoptists.
synoptists. So there is no basis for your expectation.
>Since the observed correlations are not symmetrical with respect to the
>So, taking just case (2) for now I would expect to see the same effect
>for each of Matthew and Mark as well.
three synoptists, there is no reason for you to expect any such thing,
or any of the other things you go on to consider (on which I will not
bother to comment further, since the same argument applies to every one
>The metaphorical holes would seem to have disappeared.
>Without these explanations I find Brian's hypothesis full of holes.
>On the contrary it is not unfalsifiable since, as I have already shown
>It is incapable of being falsified currently because it has been
>defined specifically to match just the current set of significant
>positive and negative results
above, the new approach can be falsified in one fell swoop by the full
results about to be released.
>Not so, is it? I have shown the opposite to be true.
>and makes NO predications whatsoever regarding results that we are
Thanks, Dave, for doing me the honour of criticizing my approach.
I am still of the view that it is very feasible that Matthew and Luke
have edited their source material so heavily that it is impossible to
discern the style of any source material they had in common. If we
assume the 2DH, they both used Mk, and hypothetical Q. If we did not
have Mk, however, we would not be able significantly to reconstruct the
style of Mk from Mt and Lk. Moreover, assuming Q existed, all we have
for certain that was in Q are the agreements of wording between Mt and
Lk in "minimal Q" in the double tradition. Just as we cannot reconstruct
the style of Mark from Matthew and Luke, so we cannot reconstruct the
style of Q from Matthew and Luke. Some scholars who staunchly affirm the
2DH, explicitly affirm that it is impossible to determine the style of
Q, if it existed. I would suggest, therefore, we should definitely not
be assuming that the observed correlations can be used to check the
existence of documentary sources of the synoptic gospels. My view is
that we should not be thinking in terms of using the observed
correlations to determine the supposed effect of the styles of authors
of sources of the synoptic gospels. Rather we should be using the
observed correlations, together with a synoptic documentary hypothesis,
to understand more fully how each synoptist has redacted the sources
posited on that documentary hypothesis. For instance, if we advocate
the 2DH, then the correlations should be used to understand more fully
how Mt and Lk redacted Mk, and how they redacted Q. This should enable a
deeper understanding, of course, of the approach of each synoptist to
his source material, and therefore provide greater insights into the way
of thinking of each synoptist. In a nut-shell, I see the observed
correlations as a valuable tool for redaction critics, but of no use to
>HOMEPAGE http://www.twonh.demon.co.uk/Rev B.E.Wilson,10 York Close,Godmanchester,Huntingdon,Cambs,PE29 2EB,UK
> "What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot_
> speak thereof one must be silent." Ludwig Wittgenstein, "Tractatus".
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