10031[Synoptic-L] Re: The same Aramaic word "cleanse"?
- May 1 11:23 AMKen Olson wrote:
>I suspect that Kloppenborg was aiming at putting forward a stronger caseKen,
>than Wellhausen/Black and was not overly concerned with attempting to
>demonstrate the impossibility of a scribal error in a hypothetical source.
My only point was that Kloppenborg had overstated his case here by
ignoring the possibility of a scribal variation.
> The main part of the case is his argument that the text of Luke is perfectlyIf we are to widen the discussion, then I must start by challenging your
> understandable as Lukan redaction of his source .....
apparent claim that the text of Luke is perfectly understandable. The
variety of English translations shows that this is not the case. NRSV seems
to me about as clear as mud. To what do "those things that are within"
refer? How can they (whatever they are) can be given for alms? JB has "give
alms from what you have", but "from what you have" seems a rather strained
reading of TA ENONTA. NEB interprets it as "let what is in the cup be given
for charity", which would make a sort of sense, but doesn't match the Greek
text very well. J.B.Phillips interprets it as "If you would only make the
inside clean by doing good to others ....." seems to be closer to your
understanding, but "If you would only" and "make clean" don't appear in the
Greek, and why the plural TA ENONTA if this is what Luke meant?
My argument is that there is no reason why the process of redaction should
lead to a nonsensical sentence, whereas mistranslation could well do so (and
indeed the "you build" in 11:48 also doesn't make proper sense and is
another candidate for mistranslation).
> To vastly oversimplify Luke's position: almsgiving cleanses theI'm not going to disagree with this and your subsequent explanation of
> soul or, perhaps more accurately, is the sign of a clean soul.
Luke's position. From my point of view it simply made the mistranslation
more likely, i.e. Luke saw in the text what he wanted to see. Your
understanding still leaves the odd co-incidence of the similarity of the
Aramaic words for "cleanse" and "give alms".
Widening the discussion even further, I think the Farrer Theory gives a
less than optimum explanation of the woes. Have you noticed the revealing
comment by Morna Hooker on Mark 12:38 (_The Gospel According to St.Mark_,
p.38)? Commenting on "And in his teaching he said" (her own translation) she
writes: "Mark's new introduction gives the impression that he has picked
this passage out of a longer section of teaching." This is very neatly
explained if Mark selected this woe from the set of seven in the early
sayings source of which (on other grounds) I now believe Mark had a copy.
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