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Portal Layout Markup Language

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  • Jury Gerasimov
    Hello all ! I plan to make a portal site about skinnable interfaces with, of course, changeable HTML skins . It means different fonts, color, layout, pictures
    Message 1 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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      Hello all !

      I plan to make a portal site about skinnable interfaces with, of
      course, changeable HTML "skins". It means different fonts, color,
      layout, pictures with the same content. The content will be in XML
      format, the skins in XSLT, and result should be renderend using
      different XSLTs to HTML. xml.com has a good article with an
      explanation of this idea (they don't speak about skins, instead, they
      discuss rendering XML portal to HTML and WAP applications, but idea
      is the same) - http://www.xml.com/pub/2000/05/15/style/index.html

      Now I have a difficult task to select right XML tags vocabulary to
      describe my portal layout. I guess that it's a common task for any
      XML-based portal which wants to be rendered in different forms, so
      probably someone already made such a vocabulary ? I would really
      appreciate any ideas on this matter. For now I know only Portal
      Structure Markup Language used in Jetspeed, but they are similar only
      in names but not in the core (as I understand it now, please correct
      me if I'm wrong).

      Thanks,
      Jury Gerasimov

      Author of Chameleon Clock - a tray clock replacement
      with support of Winamp skins, alarms, and atomic time.
      mailto:jury@...
      http://www.softshape.com
    • Aaron Swartz
      ... It seems to me the question is not the format of the portal, but the format of the underlying data. What format are your sources in? Or, are you not
      Message 2 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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        Jury Gerasimov <jury@...> wrote:

        > I plan to make a portal site about skinnable interfaces with, of
        > course, changeable HTML "skins". It means different fonts, color,
        > layout, pictures with the same content. The content will be in XML
        > format, the skins in XSLT, and result should be renderend using
        > different XSLTs to HTML.

        It seems to me the question is not the format of the portal, but the format
        of the underlying data. What format are your sources in? Or, are you not
        planning on having modification of the sources, merely their placement in an
        HTML layout? If so, you'd probably be better off without XSLT, and use some
        sort of templating system.

        Hope this helps,

        --
        [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
      • Jury Gerasimov
        ... format ... an ... some ... I can t imagine how it s possible to go without XSLT. See, I have a portal page builded from 3 different components: - page
        Message 3 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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          > > I plan to make a portal site about skinnable interfaces with, of
          > > course, changeable HTML "skins". It means different fonts, color,
          > > layout, pictures with the same content. The content will be in XML
          > > format, the skins in XSLT, and result should be renderend using
          > > different XSLTs to HTML.
          >
          > It seems to me the question is not the format of the portal, but the
          format
          > of the underlying data. What format are your sources in? Or, are you not
          > planning on having modification of the sources, merely their placement in
          an
          > HTML layout? If so, you'd probably be better off without XSLT, and use
          some
          > sort of templating system.

          I can't imagine how it's possible to go without XSLT. See, I have a portal
          page builded from 3 different components:

          - page layout : where the elements are placed on the page
          - personal layout of every element
          - the content of every element

          The format of the content is the question I asked. Surely, it is XML (for
          example, XMLNews or OCS), then it will be converted to HTML using its layout
          description (presumably XSLT) and selected skin (presumably CSS or XSLT).
          The whole page is compiled from these blocks using XInclude or similar
          mechanism.

          So the data (content) XML format is really the question. It should allow to
          apply different views (skins) and be close to HTML tags (like XHTML); in the
          same time it should keep the semantics (where is the header, where is the
          article itself, what is the source, etc.) as much as possible (like
          XMLNews). Is there any XML vocabulary for layout description which can save
          the sematics ?

          Regards,
          Jury Gerasimov

          Author of Chameleon Clock - a tray clock replacement
          with support of Winamp skins, alarms, and atomic time.
          mailto:jury@...
          http://www.softshape.com
        • Aaron Swartz
          ... Ahh, I believe I m beginning to understand you now. If you re under the control of the content sources (which I assume you are) you re probably best off by
          Message 4 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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            Jury Gerasimov <jury@...> wrote:

            > So the data (content) XML format is really the question. It should allow to
            > apply different views (skins) and be close to HTML tags (like XHTML); in the
            > same time it should keep the semantics (where is the header, where is the
            > article itself, what is the source, etc.) as much as possible (like
            > XMLNews). Is there any XML vocabulary for layout description which can save
            > the sematics ?

            Ahh, I believe I'm beginning to understand you now. If you're under the
            control of the content sources (which I assume you are) you're probably best
            off by creating a specialized format for exactly what you're trying to do.
            If you'd like to go with some sort of standard, you may want to look at RSS
            and scriptingNews. For more on RSS, visit:

            http://www.blogspace.com/rss/

            I don't have the scriptingNews URL at the moment, but I believe it's at one
            of these:

            http://backend.userland.com/stories/
            http://my.userland.com/stories/

            --
            [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
          • Jury Gerasimov
            ... to ... the ... the ... save ... best ... Perharps I will fihish with that, but now I m still trying to follow to the mainstream. It would allow me to use
            Message 5 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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              > > So the data (content) XML format is really the question. It should allow
              to
              > > apply different views (skins) and be close to HTML tags (like XHTML); in
              the
              > > same time it should keep the semantics (where is the header, where is
              the
              > > article itself, what is the source, etc.) as much as possible (like
              > > XMLNews). Is there any XML vocabulary for layout description which can
              save
              > > the sematics ?
              >
              > Ahh, I believe I'm beginning to understand you now. If you're under the
              > control of the content sources (which I assume you are) you're probably
              best
              > off by creating a specialized format for exactly what you're trying to do.

              Perharps I will fihish with that, but now I'm still trying to follow to the
              mainstream. It would allow me to use the XML content in different
              applications other than only skinned HTML pages (WAP and voice navigation
              may be good examples).

              > If you'd like to go with some sort of standard, you may want to look at
              RSS
              > and scriptingNews.

              AFAIK, RSS 1.0 incorporates ScriptingNews advantages, so why do you
              recommend the choice between them ?

              Jury Gerasimov

              Author of Chameleon Clock - a tray clock replacement
              with support of Winamp skins, alarms, and atomic time.
              mailto:jury@...
              http://www.softshape.com
            • Aaron Swartz
              ... I m a member of the RSS 1.0 Working Group, so I was trying not to seem too biased. ;-) IMHO, the best choice is RSS 1.0. It should do everything you want,
              Message 6 of 9 , Nov 14, 2000
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                Jury Gerasimov <jury@...> wrote:

                >> If you'd like to go with some sort of standard, you may want to look at RSS
                >> and scriptingNews.
                > AFAIK, RSS 1.0 incorporates ScriptingNews advantages, so why do you
                > recommend the choice between them ?

                I'm a member of the RSS 1.0 Working Group, so I was trying not to seem too
                biased. ;-)

                IMHO, the best choice is RSS 1.0. It should do everything you want, and if
                it doesn't it's fully extensible so you can make it do what you want. It's
                also a format that's being actively developed and has a growing support
                base, so its future looks promising.

                That's my personal recommendation. Best of luck,

                --
                [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
              • burton@relativity.yi.org
                ... Hash: SHA1 ... Try PSML (Portal Structure Markup Language) from the Jetspeed project. It might be just what you need. Kevin - -- Kevin A. Burton (
                Message 7 of 9 , Nov 20, 2000
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                  Hash: SHA1

                  "Jury Gerasimov" <jury@...> writes:

                  > Hello all !
                  >
                  > I plan to make a portal site about skinnable interfaces with, of
                  > course, changeable HTML "skins". It means different fonts, color,
                  > layout, pictures with the same content. The content will be in XML
                  <snip>


                  Try PSML (Portal Structure Markup Language) from the Jetspeed project. It might
                  be just what you need.

                  Kevin

                  - --
                  Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                  Cell: 408-910-6145 URL: http://relativity.yi.org

                  The unconstitutional government for the corporation, by the corporation must be
                  overthrown!
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                  Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt

                  iD8DBQE6GcIqAwM6xb2dfE0RAu60AKC0IqrssG0Fm70mdXTj/NlH7Os0wgCgqgoa
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                  =4e3z
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                  genetic Delta Force FSF terrorist Ft. Meade Rule Psix Ft. Bragg Treasury CIA
                  Noriega radar AK-47 Kennedy FBI security
                • Jury Gerasimov
                  ... Is there any implementations of 1.0 version ? I just want to look at visual display samples of RSS data in real life. Jury Gerasimov Author of Chameleon
                  Message 8 of 9 , Nov 21, 2000
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                    > IMHO, the best choice is RSS 1.0. It should do everything you want, and if
                    > it doesn't it's fully extensible so you can make it do what you want. It's
                    > also a format that's being actively developed and has a growing support
                    > base, so its future looks promising.

                    Is there any implementations of 1.0 version ? I just want to look at visual
                    display samples of RSS data in real life.

                    Jury Gerasimov

                    Author of Chameleon Clock - a tray clock replacement
                    with support of Winamp skins, alarms, and atomic time.
                    mailto:jury@...
                    http://www.softshape.com
                  • Aaron Swartz
                    ... RSS 1.0 isn t officially finished yet, so actual implementations are scarce. Here are a few: http://meerkat.oreillynet.com
                    Message 9 of 9 , Nov 21, 2000
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                      Jury Gerasimov <jury@...> wrote:

                      > Is there any implementations of 1.0 version ? I just want to look at visual
                      > display samples of RSS data in real life.

                      RSS 1.0 isn't officially finished yet, so actual implementations are scarce.
                      Here are a few:

                      http://meerkat.oreillynet.com
                      http://www.redland.opensource.ac.uk/rss
                      http://www.tnl.net/how/asp/RSS/

                      For more RSS information, you may want to visit my RSS Info website:

                      http://www.blogspace.com/rss/

                      Hope this helps,

                      --
                      [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
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