Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: RSS owns itself (was Re: [syndication] What did I get myself into?)

Expand Messages
  • Dave Winer
    Mark, pretend we re face-to-face, and let me say I hope you feel better very soon. I thought Alis and Julian posted some excellent pieces yesterday. If the RSS
    Message 1 of 3 , May 13, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      Mark, pretend we're face-to-face, and let me say I hope you feel better very
      soon.

      I thought Alis and Julian posted some excellent pieces yesterday.

      If the RSS FAQ is going to be like that, then I'm all for it.

      The more it's written by *users* of RSS, the better.

      Features and benefits. Make it super easy to do it. Let's go.

      Dave


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@...>
      To: <syndication@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, May 13, 2001 12:00 PM
      Subject: Re: RSS owns itself (was Re: [syndication] What did I get myself
      into?)


      >
      > I'm sick as a dog, and therefore am existing in the rare state where
      > I don't care about the Send button ;)
      >
      >
      > RSS is a particularly bad example of failure to agree, for whatever
      > reason. The different factions have been co-existing with poor grace
      > for some time; I'm suggesting that perhaps the time has come for them
      > to accept the differences, let the market sort it out, and pool
      > resources where appropriate. Evangelizing syndication is one such
      > area (and quite appropriate for this list).
      >
      > Dave, if this happens in a reasonable fashion, would you participate,
      > or at least point at such a resource when speaking about RSS?
      >
      >
      >
      > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 10:24:56AM -0700, Dave Winer wrote:
      > > Mark, I wanted to give this a fair amount of thought before posting, I
      did
      > > not hit the Send button right away. ;->
      > >
      > > In my opinion, formats like RSS are nothing more than politics. Consider
      > > that there are many possible ways to syndicate Web content, even in XML,
      and
      > > XML is only one of the possible ways to do it. The value in a format
      like
      > > RSS is the agreement that it represents, however it came together, that
      > > coalesced it into one identifiable thing.
      > >
      > > Now if you mean by not focusing on politics that we don't care who
      "owns"
      > > RSS, then right on, I'm behind you all the way. I don't want to own RSS,
      > > I've always said that I don't. RSS owns itself.
      > >
      > > Dave
      > >
      > >
      > > ----- Original Message -----
      > > From: "Mark Nottingham" <mnot@...>
      > > To: "James Shaw" <yahoo@...>
      > > Cc: <syndication@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2001 6:47 PM
      > > Subject: Re: [syndication] What did I get myself into?!
      > >
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > James,
      > > >
      > > > I sympathize. FWIW, my advice is to pick the format that works for
      > > > you, stick with it, and ignore the politics.
      > > >
      > > > To the Syndication list:
      > > >
      > > > What say you? The next step in the RSS story seems to be
      > > > evangelization. It's obvious that we're at a stalemate re:
      > > > determining the 'real' owner of the RSS torch. Continuing to infight
      > > > serves no purpose, and as we see demonstrated so well here,
      > > > discourages the adoption of RSS as a format.
      > > >
      > > > I propose that we (the members of this list) undertake to build a Web
      > > > site that explains the ins and outs of RSS, with the politics
      > > > relegated to ONE document (probably "the politics of RSS - choosing a
      > > > format"). Can we do this, in the interest of syndication?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > On Sun, May 13, 2001 at 12:50:32AM -0000, James Shaw wrote:
      > > > > I've looked back at the recent posts, and I'm amazed what goes on
      > > > > here and in the (as they're called here) "other" groups.
      > > > >
      > > > > A few of you posted messages about me and my efforts with STORS.org
      > > > > recently, so I thought I'd tell the short story. I write articles on
      > > > > my ASP web site and publish them by submitting title, description,
      > > > > URL and various other details to directory sites like aspin.com,
      > > > > devdex.com, etc where they categorize them. Readers follow their
      > > > > links to my site. OK, so that's where I'm coming from.
      > > > >
      > > > > My gripe was that everyone's form was different, some you can't even
      > > > > paste into! So on April 19th I proposed a *very* simple idea of
      > > > > everyone using the same names for their form inputs. Within a week
      > > > > there was an XML schema, a discussion list and a website.
      > > > >
      > > > > No-one mentioned RSS, and development was accelerating. Now, 3 weeks
      > > > > since the original form idea STORS.org publishes source code for
      > > > > publishers to create an XML file and directory sites to read it when
      > > > > the XML (or more likely a URL to the XML) is submitted on a standard
      > > > > form.
      > > > >
      > > > > More and more people offered to port my code to other languages and
      > > > > platforms, and we were ready to make the big announcement that
      > > > > STORS.org was live (scheduled for 2 days from now). And then I get
      an
      > > > > email from Alis.
      > > > >
      > > > > Much head scratching and frantic reading about RSS ensued. The 3
      main
      > > > > people behind STORS, me Steve Smith (ASPAlliance) and Pedro Pequeno
      > > > > (Aspin) decided to change tack and instead use the established RSS,
      > > > > which by all accounts was extensible enough even if we wanted a few
      > > > > tweaks.
      > > > >
      > > > > 2 days later and I'm stunned to see the political nightmare we've
      > > > > stepped into. I've subscribed to 4 discussion lists so far. This
      one,
      > > > > reallySimpleSyndication, rss2 and rss-dev.
      > > > >
      > > > > I'd really like to keep the momentum going and get my new site up
      > > > > with code for everyone to use. Quickly. I'm not sure I want to go
      > > > > back in the archives to find out where the split(s) occured, or why.
      > > > >
      > > > > I guess I was just hoping that a 2 year old effort was slick,
      > > > > polished, with lots of documentation, sample code in every
      > > > > conceivable language and more to the point, an "RSS.org" that was
      > > > > running it. (Actually the RDF Site Summary 1.0 docs are very
      > > > > impressive)
      > > > >
      > > > > What am I missing? Feel free to email me offlist if you prefer:
      > > > > james@...
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > > > --
      > > > Mark Nottingham
      > > > http://www.mnot.net/
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > Mark Nottingham
      > http://www.mnot.net/
      >
      >
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.