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use view-source: URLs

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  • burton@openprivacy.org
    ... Hash: SHA1 Hey. Just a suggestions. When I want to look at a feed with the XML icon why not change the URL to view-source:http://www.cnn.com Does this
    Message 1 of 24 , Dec 18, 2001
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      Hey.

      Just a suggestions. When I want to look at a feed with the XML icon why not
      change the URL to

      view-source:http://www.cnn.com

      Does this work under IE?

      Works under Mozilla/Konqueror

      Kevin

      - --
      Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
      Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
      Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

      There have been false reports that CNN has not used the word 'terrorist' to
      refer to those who attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon. In fact, CNN
      has consistently and repeatedly referred to the attackers and hijackers as
      terrorists, and it will continue to do so.



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    • James Lind├źn
      It works under IE, but it simple opens the default source viewer application. IE s default is notepad. James ... From: To:
      Message 2 of 24 , Dec 18, 2001
        It works under IE, but it simple opens the default source viewer
        application. IE's default is notepad.

        James

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: <burton@...>
        To: <syndic8@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 6:38 PM
        Subject: [syndic8] use view-source: URLs


        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
        > Hash: SHA1
        >
        >
        > Hey.
        >
        > Just a suggestions. When I want to look at a feed with the XML icon why
        not
        > change the URL to
        >
        > view-source:http://www.cnn.com
        >
        > Does this work under IE?
        >
        > Works under Mozilla/Konqueror
        >
        > Kevin
        >
        > - --
        > Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@...,
        burtonator@... )
        > Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
        > Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/
        >
        > There have been false reports that CNN has not used the word 'terrorist'
        to
        > refer to those who attacked the World Trade Center and Pentagon. In fact,
        CNN
        > has consistently and repeatedly referred to the attackers and hijackers as
        > terrorists, and it will continue to do so.
        >
        >
        >
        > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
        > Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
        > Comment: Get my public key at: http://relativity.yi.org/pgpkey.txt
        >
        > iD8DBQE8H9OIAwM6xb2dfE0RAnmAAJ9rx8NGsKnnvM0iPVqxy/I2DFyyvACgw18x
        > FPq+MC0tApyR5KFvl3LbrV8=
        > =2kj9
        > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
        >
        >
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > syndic8-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
      • wkearney99
        ... If you mean does this work in IE: Show source Yes it does. Fires up whatever you ve got config d for the
        Message 3 of 24 , Dec 18, 2001
          >
          > Just a suggestions. When I want to look at a feed with the XML
          > icon why not change the URL to
          >
          > view-source:http://www.cnn.com
          >
          > Does this work under IE?

          If you mean does this work in IE:

          <A href="view-source:http://www.cnn.com">Show source</a>

          Yes it does. Fires up whatever you've got config'd for the purpose.

          Where would you envision using this in Syndic8?

          -Bill Kearney
        • burton@openprivacy.org
          ... Hash: SHA1 ... You know that little icon that says XML ? That should be a view-source icon. This is what we are doing for Reptile. Kevin - --
          Message 4 of 24 , Dec 18, 2001
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            "wkearney99" <wkearney99@...> writes:

            > >
            > > Just a suggestions. When I want to look at a feed with the XML
            > > icon why not change the URL to
            > >
            > > view-source:http://www.cnn.com
            > >
            > > Does this work under IE?
            >
            > If you mean does this work in IE:
            >
            > <A href="view-source:http://www.cnn.com">Show source</a>
            >
            > Yes it does. Fires up whatever you've got config'd for the purpose.
            >
            > Where would you envision using this in Syndic8?
            <snip>

            You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a view-source icon.
            This is what we are doing for Reptile.

            Kevin

            - --
            Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
            Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
            Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

            Soylent Green is made from people!
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            =CP8w
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          • wkearney99
            ... So you re suggesting that we take the XML icon and make it deliberately open a text reader? So instead of keeping the user in their familiar browser you d
            Message 5 of 24 , Dec 18, 2001
              > You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a
              > view-source icon. This is what we are doing for Reptile.

              So you're suggesting that we take the XML icon and make it
              deliberately open a text reader? So instead of keeping the user in
              their familiar browser you'd have them tossed over into a whole other
              application. I'm not sure that's progress.

              I would, however, really like to see better handling of what the
              [xml] button does.

              -Bill Kearney
            • burton@openprivacy.org
              ... Hash: SHA1 ... Well. In Mozilla this looks much better under a view-source URL. I do realize that an IE user could take this perspective, especially
              Message 6 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
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                "wkearney99" <wkearney99@...> writes:

                > > You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a
                > > view-source icon. This is what we are doing for Reptile.
                >
                > So you're suggesting that we take the XML icon and make it deliberately open a
                > text reader? So instead of keeping the user in their familiar browser you'd
                > have them tossed over into a whole other application. I'm not sure that's
                > progress.

                Well. In Mozilla this looks much better under a view-source URL.

                I do realize that an IE user could take this perspective, especially because IE
                usually dumps them into Notepad.

                I think I can even configure Konqueror to launch whatever I want. Emacs is a
                good example.

                > I would, however, really like to see better handling of what the [xml] button
                > does.
                <snip>

                I was just putting it out there...

                Kevin

                - --
                Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                Any sufficiently advanced terrorist is indistinguishable from Osama Bin Laden.
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                0m54jJONQzR1v24nx98Yvvw=
                =u+5/
                -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
              • Julian Bond
                In article , burton@openprivacy.org writes ... This cannot be right, can it? the most common use of this icon at the moment, is
                Message 7 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                  In article <87pu5cdkou.fsf@...>, burton@...
                  writes
                  >You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a view-source icon.
                  >This is what we are doing for Reptile.

                  This cannot be right, can it? the most common use of this icon at the
                  moment, is right click, copy shortcut followed by paste into my
                  favourite news reader. If you add "view source:" to the front of the
                  url, i'll just have to delete it again. If the xml is served from the
                  source with text/xml and I click on it, then my browser should try and
                  do something useful with it. Like display it.

                  Is "view source:" really in the html4 and xhtml standards?

                  This is an issue that is becoming more and more frequent. A link (maybe
                  presented with a button) that points at xml instead of http:, mailto:
                  etc. It's an issue that should be dealt with by the standards bodies not
                  individual implementations.

                  --
                  Julian Bond email: julian_bond@...
                  CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
                  WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
                  M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
                  ICQ:33679568 tag:So many words, so little time
                • Jeff Barr
                  The XML tab of the Syndic8 feedinfo page has a link called Download XML . It is available only to logged-in users (because I don t want to be a redistribution
                  Message 8 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                    The XML tab of the Syndic8 feedinfo page has a link called "Download
                    XML". It is
                    available only to logged-in users (because I don't want to be a
                    redistribution site for
                    the XML).

                    It outputs the proper "text/xml" content-type to get IE to use its
                    special "XML editor" mode.

                    I just hacked (and then unhacked) it to send view-source:, hoping that
                    Mozilla would
                    do something cool with it, but nothing happened. So I will leave it the
                    way it started.

                    Jeff;

                    Julian Bond wrote:

                    >In article <87pu5cdkou.fsf@...>, burton@...
                    >writes
                    >
                    >>You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a view-source icon.
                    >>This is what we are doing for Reptile.
                    >>
                    >
                    >This cannot be right, can it? the most common use of this icon at the
                    >moment, is right click, copy shortcut followed by paste into my
                    >favourite news reader. If you add "view source:" to the front of the
                    >url, i'll just have to delete it again. If the xml is served from the
                    >source with text/xml and I click on it, then my browser should try and
                    >do something useful with it. Like display it.
                    >
                    >Is "view source:" really in the html4 and xhtml standards?
                    >
                    >This is an issue that is becoming more and more frequent. A link (maybe
                    >presented with a button) that points at xml instead of http:, mailto:
                    >etc. It's an issue that should be dealt with by the standards bodies not
                    >individual implementations.
                    >
                  • Tara Calishain
                    Hey Hey Hey, Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he s doing a changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files. Anyone know
                    Message 9 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                      Hey Hey Hey,

                      Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he's doing a
                      changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files.
                      Anyone know where I can get it, or am I off base?

                      Tara
                    • Julian Bond
                      In article , Tara Calishain writes ... You probably mean
                      Message 10 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                        In article <5.1.0.14.2.20011219122730.02498090@...>, Tara
                        Calishain <calumet@...> writes
                        >Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he's doing a
                        >changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files.
                        >Anyone know where I can get it, or am I off base?

                        You probably mean
                        http://www.weblogs.com/changes.xml


                        --
                        Julian Bond email: julian_bond@...
                        CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
                        WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
                        M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
                        ICQ:33679568 tag:So many words, so little time
                      • Tara Calishain
                        ... NO. I mean NewsIsFree. See: http://www.danchan.com/weblog/daypop/6224
                        Message 11 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                          At 12:59 PM 12/19/2001, you wrote:
                          >In article <5.1.0.14.2.20011219122730.02498090@...>, Tara
                          >Calishain <calumet@...> writes
                          > >Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he's doing a
                          > >changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files.
                          > >Anyone know where I can get it, or am I off base?
                          >
                          >You probably mean
                          >http://www.weblogs.com/changes.xml


                          NO. I mean NewsIsFree. See:

                          http://www.danchan.com/weblog/daypop/6224
                        • mwkrus
                          Hi there, ... I m here ;-) See: http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/changes/ for an HTML rendering and: http://www.newsisfree.com/HPE/xml/changes.xml for the XML
                          Message 12 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                            Hi there,

                            --- In syndic8@y..., Tara Calishain <calumet@m...> wrote:
                            > Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he's doing a
                            > changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files.
                            > Anyone know where I can get it, or am I off base?
                            I'm here ;-)


                            See:
                            http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/changes/ for an HTML rendering
                            and:
                            http://www.newsisfree.com/HPE/xml/changes.xml for the XML
                            (no RSS, will do if people want it)

                            It's a little different from the weblogs.com XML file (hence the
                            different version number). Each entry has three extra fields:
                            - id: the id of the feed on NewsIsFree
                            - s8: the id of the feed on Syndic8 (0 if no match is recorded in
                            our db)
                            - decay: the date of the olddest item for that feed in our database.
                            It's do be computed in the same way as the "when" date (i.e.
                            convert file update field to seconds, substract the value of the
                            field for the feed) (this isn't clear is it ? ;-). That field is
                            used by Daypop to clean it's index when our links die.


                            Mike
                          • Tara Calishain
                            ... Thanks Mike. Google sent me an announcement that they re now offering a news page on their site. I asked them, Why aren t you using the changes.xml feed
                            Message 13 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                              At 02:05 PM 12/19/2001, you wrote:
                              >Hi there,
                              >
                              >--- In syndic8@y..., Tara Calishain <calumet@m...> wrote:
                              > > Is Mike Krus out there? I understand from Daypop that he's doing a
                              > > changes.xml file which Daypop is using to grab new headline files.
                              > > Anyone know where I can get it, or am I off base?
                              >I'm here ;-)
                              >
                              >
                              >See:
                              >http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/changes/ for an HTML rendering
                              >and:
                              >http://www.newsisfree.com/HPE/xml/changes.xml for the XML
                              >(no RSS, will do if people want it)
                              >
                              >It's a little different from the weblogs.com XML file (hence the
                              >different version number). Each entry has three extra fields:
                              >- id: the id of the feed on NewsIsFree
                              >- s8: the id of the feed on Syndic8 (0 if no match is recorded in
                              > our db)
                              >- decay: the date of the olddest item for that feed in our database.
                              > It's do be computed in the same way as the "when" date (i.e.
                              > convert file update field to seconds, substract the value of the
                              > field for the feed) (this isn't clear is it ? ;-). That field is
                              > used by Daypop to clean it's index when our links die.
                              >
                              >
                              >Mike

                              Thanks Mike. Google sent me an announcement that they're now
                              offering a news page on their site. I asked them, "Why aren't you using
                              the changes.xml feed from NewsIsFree, like Daypop is? That way you'd
                              be assured of a fresh information listing. "

                              They wrote back that they'd never heard of it and would I please
                              point them to it. So I'll send them this information and keep you posted.
                              I'm really trying to get a major search engine to discover changes.xml
                              files (not that Danny isn't a lovely human being because he is.)

                              Best,

                              Tara

                              Tara Calishain / tara@...
                              ----
                              ResearchBuzz -- Search engine, database,
                              and online collection news since 1998!
                              http://www.researchbuzz.com
                            • Tara Calishain
                              ... I want to know why the major news search engines (RocketNews, FAST, Northern Light, Yahoo Daily, Moreover-Via-AltaVista) don t use changes.xml files if
                              Message 14 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
                                At 02:14 PM 12/19/2001, you wrote:
                                >Wow.
                                >
                                >Talk about a mind bomb.
                                >
                                >I've gotta figure out a way to use this.

                                I want to know why the major news search engines
                                (RocketNews, FAST, Northern Light, Yahoo Daily,
                                Moreover-Via-AltaVista) don't use changes.xml files if
                                they're available. Yahoo has an excuse because they
                                keep all their content on their sites (which allows for
                                deep if not wide searching), and Moreover-via-
                                AltaVista does do RSS scraping but they're picky
                                about what they accept.

                                But what about FAST and RocketNews and Northern
                                Light? Hell, Excite could rebuild their news search
                                based on RSS files if they wanted to (Excite NewsTracker
                                is dead, unfortunately -- news searches on Excite are
                                now handled by Dogpile Newscrawler.)

                                Tara


                                Tara Calishain / tara@...
                                ----
                                ResearchBuzz -- Search engine, database,
                                and online collection news since 1998!
                                http://www.researchbuzz.com
                              • burton@openprivacy.org
                                ... Hash: SHA1 ... Ah... no. I just think it is an accepted convention. AKA a de facto standard. Every major browser seems to support it. ... Nah. Everyone
                                Message 15 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                  Julian Bond <julian_bond@...> writes:

                                  > In article <87pu5cdkou.fsf@...>, burton@...
                                  > writes
                                  > >You know that little icon that says "XML"? That should be a view-source icon.
                                  > >This is what we are doing for Reptile.
                                  >
                                  > This cannot be right, can it? the most common use of this icon at the
                                  > moment, is right click, copy shortcut followed by paste into my
                                  > favourite news reader. If you add "view source:" to the front of the
                                  > url, i'll just have to delete it again. If the xml is served from the
                                  > source with text/xml and I click on it, then my browser should try and
                                  > do something useful with it. Like display it.
                                  >
                                  > Is "view source:" really in the html4 and xhtml standards?

                                  Ah... no. I just think it is an accepted convention. AKA a de facto
                                  standard. Every major browser seems to support it.

                                  > This is an issue that is becoming more and more frequent. A link (maybe
                                  > presented with a button) that points at xml instead of http:, mailto:
                                  > etc. It's an issue that should be dealt with by the standards bodies not
                                  > individual implementations.

                                  Nah. Everyone is free to create URIs... just they have to prove that they are
                                  useful.

                                  I see your point though but I don't think it matters here. :)

                                  Kevin

                                  - --
                                  Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                  Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                  Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                  Give a man a flame and keep him warm for the night. Set him on fire and keep
                                  him warm for the rest of his life.
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                                • burton@openprivacy.org
                                  ... Hash: SHA1 ... Yeah. Mozilla *really* needs to do something different for text/xml content :( ... hm. Works fine here. What version of mozilla? I think
                                  Message 16 of 24 , Dec 19, 2001
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                                    Jeff Barr <jeff@...> writes:

                                    > The XML tab of the Syndic8 feedinfo page has a link called "Download
                                    > XML". It is
                                    > available only to logged-in users (because I don't want to be a
                                    > redistribution site for
                                    > the XML).
                                    >
                                    > It outputs the proper "text/xml" content-type to get IE to use its special
                                    > "XML editor" mode.

                                    Yeah. Mozilla *really* needs to do something different for text/xml content :(

                                    > I just hacked (and then unhacked) it to send view-source:, hoping that Mozilla
                                    > would do something cool with it, but nothing happened. So I will leave it the
                                    > way it started.

                                    hm. Works fine here. What version of mozilla? I think this worked for me but
                                    I only tested it on > 0.9.5
                                    <snip>

                                    - --
                                    Kevin A. Burton ( burton@..., burton@..., burtonator@... )
                                    Location - San Francisco, CA, Cell - 415.595.9965
                                    Jabber - burtonator@..., Web - http://relativity.yi.org/

                                    Yes I know my enemies, they're the teachers who taught me to fight me;
                                    compromise, conformity, assimilation, submission, ignorance, hypocrisy,
                                    brutality, The Elite. All of which are American Dreams.
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                                    =Wx16
                                    -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
                                  • Julian Bond
                                    In article , Dave Winer writes ... I ve been pondering the implications here between the centralized
                                    Message 17 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                      In article <163201c188c1$6f8e31a0$33a1dc40@murphy>, Dave Winer
                                      <dave@...> writes
                                      >Talk about a mind bomb.
                                      >I've gotta figure out a way to use this.
                                      >> From: mwkrus
                                      >> http://www.newsisfree.com/HPE/xml/changes.xml for the XML

                                      I've been pondering the implications here between the centralized
                                      approach of weblogs.com and NIF and the decentralized approach of the
                                      0.92 cloud element.

                                      The de-centralized version has the reader subscribe to each feed and
                                      then get a call back when each feed changes. It then goes and collects
                                      the new data, or reads it out of the callback. The biggest problem with
                                      this is that desktop readers are unlikely to have a public IP and hence
                                      are unlikely to be accessible to the feed source.

                                      Some time ago I suggested that there ought to be an RSS version of
                                      weblogs.com. I wonder if Dave misunderstood me when he started producing
                                      an RSS version of the changes.xml file. What I meant was that when a
                                      feed changes, it informs the aggregator (say my.userland.com) which then
                                      publishes a changes.xml file containing the URL of the feed XML. RSS
                                      readers could then use this to collect the new RSS from feeds which had
                                      changed as they now know the URL of the changed RSS. This is the
                                      centralized route with a central hub.

                                      There's a possible enhancement here that the Ping function that tells
                                      the central site that a feed has changed could contain the <item> tag(s)
                                      with the new content. This would save the central site having to collect
                                      the feed when most of the feed file will not have changed.

                                      The pattern here is the usual one of avoiding firewall/NAT problems by
                                      using a relay. And in this case the relay is the central changes.xml
                                      system.

                                      Taking this a stage further, secondary aggregators such as Daypop could
                                      subscribe to the central site and receive a Ping whenever changes.xml
                                      changed. This again could contain the new changed content. That way we
                                      avoid another layer of polling.

                                      --
                                      Julian Bond email: julian_bond@...
                                      CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
                                      WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
                                      M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
                                      ICQ:33679568 tag:So many words, so little time
                                    • Mike Krus
                                      Hi, ... I don t think the changes.xml file should contain the urls to the rss files. That file is read very often, it should be kept as small as possible. I
                                      Message 18 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                        Hi,

                                        Julian Bond wrote:

                                        > What I meant was that when a
                                        > feed changes, it informs the aggregator (say my.userland.com) which then
                                        > publishes a changes.xml file containing the URL of the feed XML. RSS
                                        > readers could then use this to collect the new RSS from feeds which had
                                        > changed as they now know the URL of the changed RSS. This is the
                                        > centralized route with a central hub.
                                        I don't think the changes.xml file should contain the urls to the

                                        rss files. That file is read very often, it should be kept as
                                        small as possible. I extended it a little to add ids, to make
                                        finding the actual rss feed easier. But it's main purpose is
                                        not to help finding new links to RSS files.

                                        The main problem, IMHO, is the other way around: if I have
                                        an RSS file, where do I look for it's update notifications?
                                        Some time back, I suggested this:
                                        ( http://groups.yahoo.com/group/syndication/message/2642 )

                                        Maybe we can extend RSS .9* to include that place:
                                        <channel>
                                        ...
                                        <updates>http://www.weblogs.com/changes.xml</updates>
                                        </channel>

                                        But didn't get much feedback.

                                        I really like the idea of the changes.xml file because it's
                                        easy to write, easy to use, and, as you rightly point out,
                                        not affected by firewalls and NATs.


                                        Mike

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                                      • wkearney99
                                        ... Shouldn t a client only register with a cloud for callbacks if it can receive them? Shouldn t a firewalled machine avoid using a cloud since it can t
                                        Message 19 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                          > The de-centralized version has the reader subscribe to each feed and
                                          > then get a call back when each feed changes. It then goes and
                                          > collects the new data, or reads it out of the callback. The biggest
                                          > problem with this is that desktop readers are unlikely to have a
                                          > public IP and hence are unlikely to be accessible to the feed
                                          > source.

                                          Shouldn't a client only register with a cloud for callbacks if it can
                                          receive them? Shouldn't a firewalled machine avoid using a cloud
                                          since it can't accept callbacks?

                                          And shouldn't that same client be using an internal HTTP proxy?
                                          This, of course, suggests that the feed creators take proxy caching
                                          into account (use real values not just cache avoidance)

                                          > There's a possible enhancement here that the Ping function that
                                          > tells the central site that a feed has changed could contain the
                                          > <item> tag(s) with the new content. This would save the central
                                          > site having to collect the feed when most of the feed file will
                                          > not have changed.

                                          This would assume several things. One that the items themselves can
                                          be requested separate from the entire feed. The other is that the
                                          CPU overhead in parsing this would be less of a burden than dragging
                                          the "entire" RSS file across the wire again. I have to think the CPU
                                          overhead is worse. Grabbing just the changed items would require the
                                          client to calculate where to start. Then the server would have to be
                                          able to collect and deliver just those items. This places a
                                          significant amount of new CPU processing on the part of the feed
                                          server.

                                          It *would* be helpful if the items themselves had some sort of
                                          identifying information in them. An ID and/or a timestamp would be a
                                          good start. The current methods of duplicate checking are less than
                                          perfect.

                                          -Bill Kearney
                                        • Julian Bond
                                          In article , wkearney99 writes ... Of course. But this situation makes callbacks impossible, hence the need
                                          Message 20 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                            In article <9vski1+v236@...>, wkearney99
                                            <wkearney99@...> writes
                                            >Shouldn't a client only register with a cloud for callbacks if it can
                                            >receive them? Shouldn't a firewalled machine avoid using a cloud
                                            >since it can't accept callbacks?

                                            Of course. But this situation makes callbacks impossible, hence the need
                                            for a central relay of some sort.

                                            >And shouldn't that same client be using an internal HTTP proxy?
                                            >This, of course, suggests that the feed creators take proxy caching
                                            >into account (use real values not just cache avoidance)

                                            As a feed creator, I ought to be saving the feed as a local xml file.
                                            Then it would automatically be cached along the way via normal http. But
                                            I haven't coded that bit yet so it's being created out of the database
                                            each time. I'm not alone in this. More work, sigh.

                                            >This would assume several things. One that the items themselves can
                                            >be requested separate from the entire feed. The other is that the
                                            >CPU overhead in parsing this would be less of a burden than dragging
                                            >the "entire" RSS file across the wire again.

                                            There may be a simplification here like only passing back the latest
                                            entry. But then you're likely to miss updates occasionally. Oh well.

                                            I still think there's a start here, where there is a changes.xml
                                            somewhere that provides the URL of the xml feeds instead of the html
                                            representations.

                                            --
                                            Julian Bond email: julian_bond@...
                                            CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/
                                            WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/
                                            M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173 T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
                                            ICQ:33679568 tag:So many words, so little time
                                          • wkearney99
                                            ... Right, on this we agree. How the clarity of this has escaped others mystifies me. -Bill Kearney
                                            Message 21 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                              > I still think there's a start here, where there is a changes.xml
                                              > somewhere that provides the URL of the xml feeds instead of the html
                                              > representations.

                                              Right, on this we agree. How the clarity of this has escaped others
                                              mystifies me.

                                              -Bill Kearney
                                            • Mike Krus
                                              Hi, ... I don t! changes.xml is NOT a place to discover new RSS files. It can be used outside the context of RSS. I think syndic8 is the perfect tool to find
                                              Message 22 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                                Hi,

                                                wkearney99 wrote:

                                                >>I still think there's a start here, where there is a changes.xml
                                                >>somewhere that provides the URL of the xml feeds instead of the html
                                                >>representations.
                                                >
                                                > Right, on this we agree. How the clarity of this has escaped others
                                                > mystifies me.
                                                I don't! changes.xml is NOT a place to discover new RSS files. It

                                                can be used outside the context of RSS.

                                                I think syndic8 is the perfect tool to find the matching RSS
                                                file for any given source, just look up the service list.


                                                Mike

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                                              • Mark Paschal
                                                ... In theory, is that not what the weblogs.com RSS community is for? (The operative words being in theory, since that there s nothing there right now.)
                                                Message 23 of 24 , Dec 20, 2001
                                                  Julian Bond wrote:
                                                  > What I meant was that when a feed changes, it informs the aggregator
                                                  > (say my.userland.com) which then publishes a changes.xml file
                                                  > containing the URL of the feed XML.

                                                  In theory, is that not what the weblogs.com RSS "community" is for? (The
                                                  operative words being "in theory," since that there's nothing there right now.)

                                                  http://newhome.weblogs.com/discuss/msgReader$44
                                                  http://newhome.weblogs.com/directory/11/outputFiles/communities/rss


                                                  Mark Paschal
                                                  markpasc@...
                                                • wkearney99
                                                  Kevin may deserve some vindication here. That view-source URL handler is actually mentioned: http://www.w3.org/Addressing/schemes.html It appears to be
                                                  Message 24 of 24 , Dec 26, 2001
                                                    Kevin may deserve some vindication here. That view-source URL
                                                    handler is actually mentioned:
                                                    http://www.w3.org/Addressing/schemes.html

                                                    It appears to be documented at:
                                                    http://developer.netscape.com/docs/manuals/js/client/jsref/location.ht
                                                    m#1193181

                                                    As to whether this is a useful addition to Syndic8 remains open for
                                                    debate. I'd like to see linksthat allowed opening the site and data
                                                    URL while in the edit view. I realize this would only contain the
                                                    links as they existed on page generation. That is unless javascript
                                                    was used to pick up the live contents of the fields.

                                                    -Bill Kearney
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