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Planes & Trains

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  • William Lindley
    from the January 2001 Railway Age article, Planes to the trains : ...one U.S. airline, Continental Airlines, is actively working with Amtrak today. On an
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 23, 2001
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      from the January 2001 Railway Age article, "Planes to the trains":

      "...one U.S. airline, Continental Airlines, is actively working with
      Amtrak today. On an as-needed basis (mostly in bad weather), Continental
      switches passengers hubbed through Newark to Amtrak Northeast Corridor
      trains, rather than continue them on short-hop flights to some Northeast
      cities. In addition, Continental is looking to permanently replace short
      Newark-Philadelphia hops with Amtrak trains.

      "While not in place yet, Continental says that, for strategic and cost
      reasons, it plans to replace turboprop planes with jets, and those are
      better suited to longer flights. Where Amtrak service is available, it
      may not only be a less-costly alternative to a short-hop airplane ride, it
      may well be more convenient because it will deliver its customers, in most
      cases, directly to a downtown area, where many train stations are already
      located...

      "Amtrak does not want to identify other domestic airline partners other
      than Continental but will say that work is ongoing with 'several' airlines
      to see if similar plane-to-the-train arrangements can be created at BWI,
      Reagan National, and other airports that provide close proximity to rail."

      [Arizona note: Both Phoenix Sky Harbor International and Tucson
      International Airports are adjacent to rail lines. Phoenix-Tucson flights
      take 45 minutes, plus all the airport hassles; Phoenix-Tucson on the train
      would be under 2 and a half hours, downtown-to-downtown with convenient
      suburban stops.]

      \\/
    • Ben Bethel
      Thanks Bill - that s what I love to hear! Driving or taking the shuttle to Tucson from Phoenix is about 90-110 minutes - and the shuttle is only $19. Can a
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 23, 2001
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        Thanks Bill - that's what I love to hear! Driving or taking the shuttle to
        Tucson from Phoenix is about 90-110 minutes - and the shuttle is only $19.
        Can a 150 minute train beat that price, maybe down to $10? It would be cool
        if it could - but it should still try to do the trip in an hour at most,
        then you may go as high as $25.

        Ben


        ----Original Message Follows----
        From: William Lindley <wlindley@...>
        Reply-To: swrail@yahoogroups.com
        To: "Southwest Rail List (E-mail)" <swrail@yahoogroups.com>, "All-Aboard
        (E-mail)" <all-aboard@...>
        Subject: [swrail] Planes & Trains
        Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:08:40 -0700

        from the January 2001 Railway Age article, "Planes to the trains":

        "...one U.S. airline, Continental Airlines, is actively working with
        Amtrak today. On an as-needed basis (mostly in bad weather), Continental
        switches passengers hubbed through Newark to Amtrak Northeast Corridor
        trains, rather than continue them on short-hop flights to some Northeast
        cities. In addition, Continental is looking to permanently replace short
        Newark-Philadelphia hops with Amtrak trains.

        "While not in place yet, Continental says that, for strategic and cost
        reasons, it plans to replace turboprop planes with jets, and those are
        better suited to longer flights. Where Amtrak service is available, it
        may not only be a less-costly alternative to a short-hop airplane ride, it
        may well be more convenient because it will deliver its customers, in most
        cases, directly to a downtown area, where many train stations are already
        located...

        "Amtrak does not want to identify other domestic airline partners other
        than Continental but will say that work is ongoing with 'several' airlines
        to see if similar plane-to-the-train arrangements can be created at BWI,
        Reagan National, and other airports that provide close proximity to rail."

        [Arizona note: Both Phoenix Sky Harbor International and Tucson
        International Airports are adjacent to rail lines. Phoenix-Tucson flights
        take 45 minutes, plus all the airport hassles; Phoenix-Tucson on the train
        would be under 2 and a half hours, downtown-to-downtown with convenient
        suburban stops.]

        \\/


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      • Dave & Cathy Beale
        Partnerships between airlines and passenger railroads are common here in Germany and neighboring countries such as Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and France.
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 23, 2001
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          Partnerships between airlines and passenger railroads are common here in
          Germany and neighboring countries such as Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and
          France. They seem to work quite well, and have workd for many years in some
          cases. The glaring exception seems to be the U.K., where a complicated and
          messy privatization program started nearly a decade ago has left the rail
          system in Great Britain more or less in ruins.

          Of course its no big deal to switch people from a turboprop or even a jet
          that averages no more than 250 mph (block-out to block-in) due to ATC delays
          and airport congestion to a train that averages 100 mph for a distance of 75
          - 150 miles. Unfortunately in the USA there are no rail lines anywhere in
          the country currently or under construction or in serious planning stages
          that even have a max speed of 100 MPH, much less an average 100 mph speed
          except for the Wash DC - Boston route. Faster trains are the key to
          supplementing airline travel on shorter (50 - 150 mi.) routes.

          I think the bottom line is that for long distance passenger rail service
          such as Amtrak to be viable in the future as true transportation alternative
          to airlines and automobiles, rather than a land going version of a Carribean
          or Alaskan cruise liner, it has to be capable of 90 mph or faster average
          speeds. This means speeds of 150 mph between stops. Even if somehow Amtrak
          could magically raise the max. speed of most of their trains between stops
          to 80 mph, this still would be insufficient. From what I gather, max.
          speeds on most Amtrak routes today are a long way from even reaching that
          modest goal.

          Dave Beale, former Chandler AZ resident
          Hinter dem Holze 155
          D-30539 Hannover
          Germany

          Am 23.02.2001 17:08 Uhr, William Lindley bei wlindley@... schriebt:

          > from the January 2001 Railway Age article, "Planes to the trains":
          >
          > "...one U.S. airline, Continental Airlines, is actively working with
          > Amtrak today. On an as-needed basis (mostly in bad weather), Continental
          > switches passengers hubbed through Newark to Amtrak Northeast Corridor
          > trains, rather than continue them on short-hop flights to some Northeast
          > cities. In addition, Continental is looking to permanently replace short
          > Newark-Philadelphia hops with Amtrak trains.
          >
          > "While not in place yet, Continental says that, for strategic and cost
          > reasons, it plans to replace turboprop planes with jets, and those are
          > better suited to longer flights. Where Amtrak service is available, it
          > may not only be a less-costly alternative to a short-hop airplane ride, it
          > may well be more convenient because it will deliver its customers, in most
          > cases, directly to a downtown area, where many train stations are already
          > located...
          >
          > "Amtrak does not want to identify other domestic airline partners other
          > than Continental but will say that work is ongoing with 'several' airlines
          > to see if similar plane-to-the-train arrangements can be created at BWI,
          > Reagan National, and other airports that provide close proximity to rail."
          >
          > [Arizona note: Both Phoenix Sky Harbor International and Tucson
          > International Airports are adjacent to rail lines. Phoenix-Tucson flights
          > take 45 minutes, plus all the airport hassles; Phoenix-Tucson on the train
          > would be under 2 and a half hours, downtown-to-downtown with convenient
          > suburban stops.]
          >
          > \\/
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > swrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
          >
        • Ben Bethel
          That was worded beautifully, and I agree with you 100%. I think we ll know by the end of the year what the future of rail will be in America. My biggest fear
          Message 4 of 4 , Feb 23, 2001
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            That was worded beautifully, and I agree with you 100%. I think we'll know
            by the end of the year what the future of rail will be in America. My
            biggest fear is that Herb Kelleher, CEO of Southwest Airlines and a Texan,
            is probably the single largest opponent of rail in the country. It affects
            his business, which is providing transportation between cities that aren't
            very far apart. Since he's a Texan, I bet he also knows George W. pretty
            well, and if they're buddy-buddy the future of rail doesn't look too good.
            Unless Southwest gets to operate the trains! Can you imagine? "Here's your
            peanuts, sorry your seats are so close together, do you mind standing in the
            aisle for a few hours?!" hehe...

            Ben

            ----Original Message Follows----
            From: Dave & Cathy Beale <dbeale@...>
            Reply-To: swrail@yahoogroups.com
            To: <swrail@yahoogroups.com>, "All-Aboard (E-mail)"
            <all-aboard@...>
            Subject: Re: [swrail] Planes & Trains
            Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 20:49:34 +0100

            Partnerships between airlines and passenger railroads are common here in
            Germany and neighboring countries such as Belgium, Holland, Switzerland and
            France. They seem to work quite well, and have workd for many years in some
            cases. The glaring exception seems to be the U.K., where a complicated and
            messy privatization program started nearly a decade ago has left the rail
            system in Great Britain more or less in ruins.

            Of course its no big deal to switch people from a turboprop or even a jet
            that averages no more than 250 mph (block-out to block-in) due to ATC delays
            and airport congestion to a train that averages 100 mph for a distance of 75
            - 150 miles. Unfortunately in the USA there are no rail lines anywhere in
            the country currently or under construction or in serious planning stages
            that even have a max speed of 100 MPH, much less an average 100 mph speed
            except for the Wash DC - Boston route. Faster trains are the key to
            supplementing airline travel on shorter (50 - 150 mi.) routes.

            I think the bottom line is that for long distance passenger rail service
            such as Amtrak to be viable in the future as true transportation alternative
            to airlines and automobiles, rather than a land going version of a Carribean
            or Alaskan cruise liner, it has to be capable of 90 mph or faster average
            speeds. This means speeds of 150 mph between stops. Even if somehow Amtrak
            could magically raise the max. speed of most of their trains between stops
            to 80 mph, this still would be insufficient. From what I gather, max.
            speeds on most Amtrak routes today are a long way from even reaching that
            modest goal.

            Dave Beale, former Chandler AZ resident
            Hinter dem Holze 155
            D-30539 Hannover
            Germany

            Am 23.02.2001 17:08 Uhr, William Lindley bei wlindley@... schriebt:

            > from the January 2001 Railway Age article, "Planes to the trains":
            >
            > "...one U.S. airline, Continental Airlines, is actively working with
            > Amtrak today. On an as-needed basis (mostly in bad weather), Continental
            > switches passengers hubbed through Newark to Amtrak Northeast Corridor
            > trains, rather than continue them on short-hop flights to some Northeast
            > cities. In addition, Continental is looking to permanently replace short
            > Newark-Philadelphia hops with Amtrak trains.
            >
            > "While not in place yet, Continental says that, for strategic and cost
            > reasons, it plans to replace turboprop planes with jets, and those are
            > better suited to longer flights. Where Amtrak service is available, it
            > may not only be a less-costly alternative to a short-hop airplane ride,
            it
            > may well be more convenient because it will deliver its customers, in
            most
            > cases, directly to a downtown area, where many train stations are already
            > located...
            >
            > "Amtrak does not want to identify other domestic airline partners other
            > than Continental but will say that work is ongoing with 'several'
            airlines
            > to see if similar plane-to-the-train arrangements can be created at BWI,
            > Reagan National, and other airports that provide close proximity to
            rail."
            >
            > [Arizona note: Both Phoenix Sky Harbor International and Tucson
            > International Airports are adjacent to rail lines. Phoenix-Tucson
            flights
            > take 45 minutes, plus all the airport hassles; Phoenix-Tucson on the
            train
            > would be under 2 and a half hours, downtown-to-downtown with convenient
            > suburban stops.]
            >
            > \\/
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > swrail-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >


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