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Is CP spawning LaRouche like spin-off?

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  • Tom
    I was recently startled to see a sophomoric sectarian redbaiting rant on FB against Carl Davidson railing against him for being being a stooge of imperialism
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 14, 2011
      I was recently startled to see a sophomoric sectarian redbaiting rant on FB against Carl Davidson railing against him for being being a stooge of imperialism because of his alleged adoption of that "imperialist ideology", pragmatism. I was even more startled when I learned that this rant came not from a Healyite sectarian but from an ostensible member of the CPUSA. Davidson informs us they are from a "mini-faction" of the CP. Nonetheless they seem like provacateurs headed down the road of NCLC. Below is a link to the FB page referenced above together with a link to a faux CP page they have put up which just reeks of paper overed Glen Beck.

      http://www.facebook.com/notes/sally-robbins/carl-davidsons-pragmatism-from-pol-pot-to-barack-obama/180569418657890

      http://cpusanationalboard.blogspot.com/2010/03/cpusa-national-committee-member-mark.html
    • Mark A. Lause
      Fair enough. Point taken on the WWP. Of course, the political achievement of putting together a common campaign is, in part, the process of holding a
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 14, 2011
        Fair enough. Point taken on the WWP.

        Of course, the political achievement of putting together a common campaign is, in part, the process of holding a discussion with the coalition partners...which I'm sure the WWP and the various socialist supporters of the campaign did not do. This is related to the fact that none of the claims we heard for the McKinney campaign were even remotely realized. The Greens did nothing to build on it and McKinney with her people did nothing either. And her supporters who were ballyhooing a major strategic breakthrough have been remarkably silent and will probably remain so...right up until the 2012 campaign gets underway....

        Nor, for that matter, were even our more modest hopes for the Nader campaign realized. There wasn't even enough substance after the election to

        However, the big fizzlers were those who insisted on running their own little dead useless independent socialist campaigns. They claimed that they couldn't support any candidate who didn't use the right magic words, but that was phony because they made no real effort to combine into a common explicitly socialist ticket either.

        It was all about building their own treehouse.....

        ML


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Mark A. Lause
        It s FB. I d trust nothing there that you don t know from elsewhere. As for Carl Davidson, if that smug, discussion-ducking dumb shit Democratic asshole that
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 14, 2011
          It's FB. I'd trust nothing there that you don't know from elsewhere.

          As for Carl Davidson, if that smug, discussion-ducking dumb shit Democratic asshole that keeps spamming me told me that the sky was up, I wouldn't believe it without going outside and checking.

          Actually the idea of attacking him as some kind of radical seems more of an online sport of the reactionary sociopsychopaths...and quite a number of them masquerade as radicals on FB.

          ML


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Tom
          Yeah, I m wondering if gravity is an imperialist ideology, I asked her, I mean Newton was known to be favorably disposed to the British Empire and its
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 14, 2011
            Yeah, I'm wondering if gravity is an imperialist ideology, I asked her, I mean Newton was known to be favorably disposed to the British Empire and its monarchy, heck he even allowed himself to become a founding member of a "Royal" society.


            --- In swp_usa@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A. Lause" <MLause@...> wrote:
            >
            > It's FB. I'd trust nothing there that you don't know from elsewhere.
            >
            > As for Carl Davidson, if that smug, discussion-ducking dumb shit Democratic asshole that keeps spamming me told me that the sky was up, I wouldn't believe it without going outside and checking.
            >
            > Actually the idea of attacking him as some kind of radical seems more of an online sport of the reactionary sociopsychopaths...and quite a number of them masquerade as radicals on FB.
            >
            > ML
            >
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
          • Arthur Maglin
            There has been considerable information shared and discussed on the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group about the CPs move away from long held stances in the
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 15, 2011
              There has been considerable information shared and discussed on the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group about the CPs move away from long held stances in the direction of social democratic acceptability--a kind of latter-day Eurocommunist development. There has also been discussion of those within the CP milieu who oppose it. You can find some of that at Marxism-Leninism Today:

              http://www.mltoday.com/

              Carl Davidson, who is a leader of the Committees of Correspondence for Socialism and Democracy, is very involved in the Leftist Trainspotters discussion and has commented on the opposition within the CP by old-liners quite a bit and quite knowledgeably. So, if Carl thinks that this Facebook attack on him comes from that quarter, I would trust him on it. Much of the polemic against Carl could just as easily have been directed against the current CP leadership whom the CP old-liners think have abandoned Marxism-Leninism for anticommunist ways of thinking. Their proof includes the CP's repudiation of Stalin's alleged contributions to Marxist thought.

              I have referenced the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group discussion before and it would seem that there has been minimal overlap between that group and this one. So, as a side note, for those who don't know about Leftist Trainspotters, it is an active and large discussion group (1,633 members)in which Leftists of all kinds of affiliation and/or orientation from all over the world share information and news about socialist, communist, and anarchist groups, actions, and prominent individuals without (ususally)polemicizing against one another. The premise is that everyone involved has a fairly well developed point of view and that this forum is not one in which to try shifting anyone's positions. It is, in my opinion, a fun, fascinating and long-standing (since July, 2001) exercise in comradely discussion and co-operation. It is a forum in which many people from all over the Left are able to share information, swap stories, and play nicely together. It maintains a closed archive which is reserved for members who join the group and the group's protocol is that the posts not be re-posted elsewhere to allow everyone maximum comfort and relaxation in saying what they want to say.

              Arthur Maglin

              --- In swp_usa@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tomcod2@...> wrote:
              >
              > Yeah, I'm wondering if gravity is an imperialist ideology, I asked her, I mean Newton was known to be favorably disposed to the British Empire and its monarchy, heck he even allowed himself to become a founding member of a "Royal" society.
              >
              >
              > --- In swp_usa@yahoogroups.com, "Mark A. Lause" <MLause@> wrote:
              > >
              > > It's FB. I'd trust nothing there that you don't know from elsewhere.
              > >
              > > As for Carl Davidson, if that smug, discussion-ducking dumb shit Democratic asshole that keeps spamming me told me that the sky was up, I wouldn't believe it without going outside and checking.
              > >
              > > Actually the idea of attacking him as some kind of radical seems more of an online sport of the reactionary sociopsychopaths...and quite a number of them masquerade as radicals on FB.
              > >
              > > ML
              > >
              > >
              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              >
            • Louis Proyect
              ... I found Leftist Trainspotters to be a combination of trivial pursuit and gossip. It is also particularly frustrating when, despite itself, threads there
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 15, 2011
                On 4/15/2011 2:07 PM, Arthur Maglin wrote:
                > I have referenced the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group
                > discussion before and it would seem that there has been minimal
                > overlap between that group and this one. So, as a side note,
                > for those who don't know about Leftist Trainspotters, it is an
                > active and large discussion group (1,633 members)in which
                > Leftists of all kinds of affiliation and/or orientation from
                > all over the world share information and news about socialist,
                > communist, and anarchist groups, actions, and prominent
                > individuals without (ususally)polemicizing against one another.
                > The premise is that everyone involved has a fairly well
                > developed point of view and that this forum is not one in which
                > to try shifting anyone's positions. It is, in my opinion, a
                > fun, fascinating and long-standing (since July, 2001) exercise
                > in comradely discussion and co-operation. It is a forum in
                > which many people from all over the Left are able to share
                > information, swap stories, and play nicely together. It
                > maintains a closed archive which is reserved for members who
                > join the group and the group's protocol is that the posts not
                > be re-posted elsewhere to allow everyone maximum comfort and
                > relaxation in saying what they want to say.

                I found Leftist Trainspotters to be a combination of trivial
                pursuit and gossip. It is also particularly frustrating when,
                despite itself, threads there trigger a debate that cannot flower.
              • Arthur Maglin
                Nothing works for everyone. But, admittedly, there is a lot of dross and trivia mixed in with useful material. And Louis is absolutely correct about the format
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 15, 2011
                  Nothing works for everyone. But, admittedly, there is a lot of dross and trivia mixed in with useful material. And Louis is absolutely correct about the format being one in which a serious debate cannot flower. On the other hand, it is a very good place to find out where the debates are and to track down those that seem worthwhile. I would never recommend it as anyone's sole discussion forum or place to lurk.

                  Arthur

                  --- In swp_usa@yahoogroups.com, Louis Proyect <lnp3@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > On 4/15/2011 2:07 PM, Arthur Maglin wrote:
                  > > I have referenced the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group
                  > > discussion before and it would seem that there has been minimal
                  > > overlap between that group and this one. So, as a side note,
                  > > for those who don't know about Leftist Trainspotters, it is an
                  > > active and large discussion group (1,633 members)in which
                  > > Leftists of all kinds of affiliation and/or orientation from
                  > > all over the world share information and news about socialist,
                  > > communist, and anarchist groups, actions, and prominent
                  > > individuals without (ususally)polemicizing against one another.
                  > > The premise is that everyone involved has a fairly well
                  > > developed point of view and that this forum is not one in which
                  > > to try shifting anyone's positions. It is, in my opinion, a
                  > > fun, fascinating and long-standing (since July, 2001) exercise
                  > > in comradely discussion and co-operation. It is a forum in
                  > > which many people from all over the Left are able to share
                  > > information, swap stories, and play nicely together. It
                  > > maintains a closed archive which is reserved for members who
                  > > join the group and the group's protocol is that the posts not
                  > > be re-posted elsewhere to allow everyone maximum comfort and
                  > > relaxation in saying what they want to say.
                  >
                  > I found Leftist Trainspotters to be a combination of trivial
                  > pursuit and gossip. It is also particularly frustrating when,
                  > despite itself, threads there trigger a debate that cannot flower.
                  >
                • Max
                  I ve also had my membership request for it pending since February. Unless it was approved this morning, no one has replied to my requests to the list owner to
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 15, 2011
                    I've also had my membership request for it pending since February. Unless it was approved this morning, no one has replied to my requests to the list owner to act one way or the other on approving it. A couple of members have offered to look into it for me, but I haven't heard anything yet.



                    --- In swp_usa@yahoogroups.com, Louis Proyect <lnp3@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > On 4/15/2011 2:07 PM, Arthur Maglin wrote:
                    > > I have referenced the Leftist Trainspotters yahoo group
                    > > discussion before and it would seem that there has been minimal
                    > > overlap between that group and this one. So, as a side note,
                    > > for those who don't know about Leftist Trainspotters, it is an
                    > > active and large discussion group (1,633 members)in which
                    > > Leftists of all kinds of affiliation and/or orientation from
                    > > all over the world share information and news about socialist,
                    > > communist, and anarchist groups, actions, and prominent
                    > > individuals without (ususally)polemicizing against one another.
                    > > The premise is that everyone involved has a fairly well
                    > > developed point of view and that this forum is not one in which
                    > > to try shifting anyone's positions. It is, in my opinion, a
                    > > fun, fascinating and long-standing (since July, 2001) exercise
                    > > in comradely discussion and co-operation. It is a forum in
                    > > which many people from all over the Left are able to share
                    > > information, swap stories, and play nicely together. It
                    > > maintains a closed archive which is reserved for members who
                    > > join the group and the group's protocol is that the posts not
                    > > be re-posted elsewhere to allow everyone maximum comfort and
                    > > relaxation in saying what they want to say.
                    >
                    > I found Leftist Trainspotters to be a combination of trivial
                    > pursuit and gossip. It is also particularly frustrating when,
                    > despite itself, threads there trigger a debate that cannot flower.
                    >
                  • Mark A. Lause
                    There are any number of these state left and progressive lists on yahoo. They usually have a big mix of people, the main virtue being that people know
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 15, 2011
                      There are any number of these state "left" and "progressive" lists on yahoo. They usually have a big mix of people, the main virtue being that people know something about the realities of the state election.

                      During the last presidential election, Davidson would subscribe to these and take a daily squat into each of them, dropping as many as a dozen piece of Democratic propaganda a day...including vicious attacks on progressives who were not drinking the Obama kool aid.

                      I suspect that these characters live in some fantasy world where they are alternately helping to cool down the discontent against Obama while giving what sort of advice they could to the powers-that-be...which probably means that they can go bend the ear of a doorman at the White House who's polite enough not to kick them down the stairs.

                      Who elected a Carl Davidson or a Todd Gitlin to speak for "the Left"?

                      Not me.

                      Not us.

                      Screw 'em.

                      If some errant CP third-period wannabe wants to follow them around Union Square shrieking about Hungary, screw them, too.

                      They are fighting the class war in their own private Idaho, right?

                      ML





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