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Re: Adobe SVG Print

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  • brs@ramboll.dk
    ... For GIS and CAD purposes fast plotting of many and large plots is important. Drawings may be large in bytes and in height/width. A typical technical
    Message 1 of 10 , Oct 31, 2000
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      --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@y...>
      wrote:

      > Yes, I had this trouble; probably before anyone else had it.
      > (as I am the one who wrote a code for it ;-). The problem is
      > that SVG imaging model is so rich that almost nothing sort of
      > rendering it pixel-by-pixel can express it, unless only a
      > subset of SVG is used (no opacity, no filter effects,
      > no soft masks), and even then it would bring us down to
      > PostScript imaging model which is way higher then GDI or
      > QuickDraw. So right now we do not do anything but
      > pixel-by-pixel printing, although we try not to consume
      > too much memory in process and doing it in parts if needed.
      >
      > Adobe Acrobat Reader can deal with such problems in a very
      > smart ways, so in future we should be able to borrow from
      > them. Right now, though, we are concentrated mostly on
      > implementing what's undone from the spec.

      For GIS and CAD purposes fast plotting of many and large plots is
      important. Drawings may be large in bytes and in height/width. A
      typical technical application could have a function, that should
      produce and plot 25 different cross sections from A to B. Effects
      such as opacity, filter and soft masks is probably not that
      important. Therefore a fast print option using eg. the GDI would be
      nice (also in early versions of the Adobe Svg Viewer) !

      Is it possible to start print from the DOM ?

      Yours,

      Brian Sørensen
    • paulh@woodley-rdt.co.uk
      Thanks, I had tried to discount buffer sizes by trying different printers and direct connection rather than networked connection but always got similar
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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        Thanks,

        I had tried to discount buffer sizes by trying different printers and
        direct connection rather than networked connection but always got
        similar results.

        I've tryed removing complexity and reducing viewBox size to no avail
        but the situation I have is:-

        If I have my image inserted in a html frame of 100% width then I
        can't have my print style any bigger than 400 pixels wide (it
        generates 7MB in the spool queue).
        i.e.

        @media print {
        object.full-plan {
        position:absolute;
        top:0;
        left:0;
        width:400;
        height:300;
        }
        }

        Which results in a 4" wide image on the printer.

        But if I have the same image inserted in a html frame of 200 pixels
        width, then I can use a print style of :

        @media print {
        object.full-plan {
        position:absolute;
        top:0;
        left:0;
        width:100%;
        height:100%;
        }
        }

        Which will nicely fit the image to the page size but at the
        resolution of the displayed 200 pixel wide image (which is
        unreadable)!

        I am using NT 4, a 450Mhz PC with 128MB Ram giga bytes of free disk
        space and 128MB of page file.
        One of the printers I am using is a Samsung 6100 PCL6 which is 600
        dpi on a A4 piece of paper but I have also tried a HPLJ-PC L6 and a
        Epson Stylus color 1520.

        Paul.

        --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@y...>
        wrote:
        > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, paulh@w... wrote:
        > > Has anyone had trouble with the Adobe SVG pluggin producing
        > > ridiculously big print output that then fails to print?
        >
        > Yes, I had this trouble; probably before anyone else had it.
        > (as I am the one who wrote a code for it ;-). The problem is
        > that SVG imaging model is so rich that almost nothing sort of
        > rendering it pixel-by-pixel can express it, unless only a
        > subset of SVG is used (no opacity, no filter effects,
        > no soft masks), and even then it would bring us down to
        > PostScript imaging model which is way higher then GDI or
        > QuickDraw. So right now we do not do anything but
        > pixel-by-pixel printing, although we try not to consume
        > too much memory in process and doing it in parts if needed.
        >
        > Adobe Acrobat Reader can deal with such problems in a very
        > smart ways, so in future we should be able to borrow from
        > them. Right now, though, we are concentrated mostly on
        > implementing what's undone from the spec.
        >
        > I suspect, from your description, that it is not Adobe
        > plugin that fails but your print driver (That actually is
        > the trouble I had myself). It happens, for instance, if you
        > do not have enough disk space or memory, but trying to
        > print at high resolution. Print drivers are often not
        > optimized for big bitmaps, they do not even compress them
        > in the spool file a lot of times.
        >
        > I am interested in learning more about the problem that you
        > have. If you can describe your system (OS, hardware, free
        > disk space, memory, pagefile size for Windows) and printer
        > (including resolution and paper size), that would help
        > me a lot.
        >
        > Also, if you can tell me what is that you are trying to print,
        > that would help me to figure out if there is a need for some
        > special cases that can be optimized.
        >
        > >
        > > I only seem to be able to print my image if the object on the
        > > enclosing HTML page is about 400 pixels wide, which results in
        only
        > a
        > > 4" wide image!
        >
        > Hmm, I would think it generally should do better (it definitely
        > does for me). What other people's experiences are with printing?
        >
        > Peter
      • Peter Sorotokin
        ... and ... Paul, OK, this means that the problem is not what I thought it is originally. I would like to try reproducing it here. ... avail ... Which browser
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 1, 2000
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          --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, paulh@w... wrote:
          > Thanks,
          >
          > I had tried to discount buffer sizes by trying different printers
          and
          > direct connection rather than networked connection but always got
          > similar results.
          >

          Paul,

          OK, this means that the problem is not what I thought it is
          originally. I would like to try reproducing it here.

          > I've tryed removing complexity and reducing viewBox size to no
          avail
          > but the situation I have is:-
          >
          > If I have my image inserted in a html frame of 100% width then I
          > can't have my print style any bigger than 400 pixels wide (it
          > generates 7MB in the spool queue).
          > i.e.
          >
          > @media print {
          > object.full-plan {
          > position:absolute;
          > top:0;
          > left:0;
          > width:400;
          > height:300;
          > }
          > }
          >
          > Which results in a 4" wide image on the printer.
          >
          > But if I have the same image inserted in a html frame of 200 pixels
          > width, then I can use a print style of :
          >
          > @media print {
          > object.full-plan {
          > position:absolute;
          > top:0;
          > left:0;
          > width:100%;
          > height:100%;
          > }
          > }
          >
          > Which will nicely fit the image to the page size but at the
          > resolution of the displayed 200 pixel wide image (which is
          > unreadable)!

          Which browser do you use? I think I understand why this is
          happening, but I need browser and version to try to reproduce
          it here (IE 4.x and IE 5 print very differently from IE 5.5
          and Netscape).

          And, as I understand from your previous post, if you make
          you frame, say 800 pixels wide, it spools, but does not
          print at all, is that right?

          >
          > I am using NT 4, a 450Mhz PC with 128MB Ram giga bytes of free disk
          > space and 128MB of page file.
          > One of the printers I am using is a Samsung 6100 PCL6 which is 600
          > dpi on a A4 piece of paper but I have also tried a HPLJ-PC L6 and a
          > Epson Stylus color 1520.

          Well, this seems more then adequate hardware. You might want to
          bump up pagefile size (keeping it about twice the Ram is normally
          is reasonable thing to do anyway; but there is only a remote chance
          that this will help) and double check that print driver spools
          at the disk that has these gigs of free space.

          Does it fail to print any SVG file that takes up the whole frame
          or only your particular file?

          Thank you for the feedback,

          Peter

          >
          > Paul.
          >
          > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin"
          <sorotokin@y...>
          > wrote:
          > > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, paulh@w... wrote:
          > > > Has anyone had trouble with the Adobe SVG pluggin producing
          > > > ridiculously big print output that then fails to print?
          > >
          > > Yes, I had this trouble; probably before anyone else had it.
          > > (as I am the one who wrote a code for it ;-). The problem is
          > > that SVG imaging model is so rich that almost nothing sort of
          > > rendering it pixel-by-pixel can express it, unless only a
          > > subset of SVG is used (no opacity, no filter effects,
          > > no soft masks), and even then it would bring us down to
          > > PostScript imaging model which is way higher then GDI or
          > > QuickDraw. So right now we do not do anything but
          > > pixel-by-pixel printing, although we try not to consume
          > > too much memory in process and doing it in parts if needed.
          > >
          > > Adobe Acrobat Reader can deal with such problems in a very
          > > smart ways, so in future we should be able to borrow from
          > > them. Right now, though, we are concentrated mostly on
          > > implementing what's undone from the spec.
          > >
          > > I suspect, from your description, that it is not Adobe
          > > plugin that fails but your print driver (That actually is
          > > the trouble I had myself). It happens, for instance, if you
          > > do not have enough disk space or memory, but trying to
          > > print at high resolution. Print drivers are often not
          > > optimized for big bitmaps, they do not even compress them
          > > in the spool file a lot of times.
          > >
          > > I am interested in learning more about the problem that you
          > > have. If you can describe your system (OS, hardware, free
          > > disk space, memory, pagefile size for Windows) and printer
          > > (including resolution and paper size), that would help
          > > me a lot.
          > >
          > > Also, if you can tell me what is that you are trying to print,
          > > that would help me to figure out if there is a need for some
          > > special cases that can be optimized.
          > >
          > > >
          > > > I only seem to be able to print my image if the object on the
          > > > enclosing HTML page is about 400 pixels wide, which results in
          > only
          > > a
          > > > 4" wide image!
          > >
          > > Hmm, I would think it generally should do better (it definitely
          > > does for me). What other people's experiences are with printing?
          > >
          > > Peter
        • paulh@woodley-rdt.co.uk
          I hope this helps, I have ansered your questions below: Paul ... pixels ... Sorry I forgot that vital pice of information, Yes it is Internet Explorer 5.5.
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 2, 2000
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            I hope this helps, I have ansered your questions below:
            Paul

            --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@y...>
            wrote:
            > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, paulh@w... wrote:
            > > Thanks,
            > >
            > > I had tried to discount buffer sizes by trying different printers
            > and
            > > direct connection rather than networked connection but always got
            > > similar results.
            > >
            >
            > Paul,
            >
            > OK, this means that the problem is not what I thought it is
            > originally. I would like to try reproducing it here.
            >
            > > I've tryed removing complexity and reducing viewBox size to no
            > avail
            > > but the situation I have is:-
            > >
            > > If I have my image inserted in a html frame of 100% width then I
            > > can't have my print style any bigger than 400 pixels wide (it
            > > generates 7MB in the spool queue).
            > > i.e.
            > >
            > > @media print {
            > > object.full-plan {
            > > position:absolute;
            > > top:0;
            > > left:0;
            > > width:400;
            > > height:300;
            > > }
            > > }
            > >
            > > Which results in a 4" wide image on the printer.
            > >
            > > But if I have the same image inserted in a html frame of 200
            pixels
            > > width, then I can use a print style of :
            > >
            > > @media print {
            > > object.full-plan {
            > > position:absolute;
            > > top:0;
            > > left:0;
            > > width:100%;
            > > height:100%;
            > > }
            > > }
            > >
            > > Which will nicely fit the image to the page size but at the
            > > resolution of the displayed 200 pixel wide image (which is
            > > unreadable)!
            >
            > Which browser do you use? I think I understand why this is
            > happening, but I need browser and version to try to reproduce
            > it here (IE 4.x and IE 5 print very differently from IE 5.5
            > and Netscape).
            >

            Sorry I forgot that vital pice of information, Yes it is Internet
            Explorer 5.5.
            Paul.

            > And, as I understand from your previous post, if you make
            > you frame, say 800 pixels wide, it spools, but does not
            > print at all, is that right?
            >

            I get just the frame border but no SVG content.
            Paul.

            > >
            > > I am using NT 4, a 450Mhz PC with 128MB Ram giga bytes of free
            disk
            > > space and 128MB of page file.
            > > One of the printers I am using is a Samsung 6100 PCL6 which is
            600
            > > dpi on a A4 piece of paper but I have also tried a HPLJ-PC L6 and
            a
            > > Epson Stylus color 1520.
            >
            > Well, this seems more then adequate hardware. You might want to
            > bump up pagefile size (keeping it about twice the Ram is normally
            > is reasonable thing to do anyway; but there is only a remote chance
            > that this will help) and double check that print driver spools
            > at the disk that has these gigs of free space.
            >

            I gave it a go, but no surprise, it made no difference!
            Paul.

            > Does it fail to print any SVG file that takes up the whole frame
            > or only your particular file?
            >

            Yes, even a simple one.
            Paul

            > Thank you for the feedback,
            >
            > Peter
            >
            > >
            > > Paul.
            > >
            > > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin"
            > <sorotokin@y...>
            > > wrote:
            > > > --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, paulh@w... wrote:
            > > > > Has anyone had trouble with the Adobe SVG pluggin producing
            > > > > ridiculously big print output that then fails to print?
            > > >
            > > > Yes, I had this trouble; probably before anyone else had it.
            > > > (as I am the one who wrote a code for it ;-). The problem is
            > > > that SVG imaging model is so rich that almost nothing sort of
            > > > rendering it pixel-by-pixel can express it, unless only a
            > > > subset of SVG is used (no opacity, no filter effects,
            > > > no soft masks), and even then it would bring us down to
            > > > PostScript imaging model which is way higher then GDI or
            > > > QuickDraw. So right now we do not do anything but
            > > > pixel-by-pixel printing, although we try not to consume
            > > > too much memory in process and doing it in parts if needed.
            > > >
            > > > Adobe Acrobat Reader can deal with such problems in a very
            > > > smart ways, so in future we should be able to borrow from
            > > > them. Right now, though, we are concentrated mostly on
            > > > implementing what's undone from the spec.
            > > >
            > > > I suspect, from your description, that it is not Adobe
            > > > plugin that fails but your print driver (That actually is
            > > > the trouble I had myself). It happens, for instance, if you
            > > > do not have enough disk space or memory, but trying to
            > > > print at high resolution. Print drivers are often not
            > > > optimized for big bitmaps, they do not even compress them
            > > > in the spool file a lot of times.
            > > >
            > > > I am interested in learning more about the problem that you
            > > > have. If you can describe your system (OS, hardware, free
            > > > disk space, memory, pagefile size for Windows) and printer
            > > > (including resolution and paper size), that would help
            > > > me a lot.
            > > >
            > > > Also, if you can tell me what is that you are trying to print,
            > > > that would help me to figure out if there is a need for some
            > > > special cases that can be optimized.
            > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > I only seem to be able to print my image if the object on the
            > > > > enclosing HTML page is about 400 pixels wide, which results
            in
            > > only
            > > > a
            > > > > 4" wide image!
            > > >
            > > > Hmm, I would think it generally should do better (it definitely
            > > > does for me). What other people's experiences are with printing?
            > > >
            > > > Peter
          • Peter Sorotokin
            ... I do not quite understand how to apply this stylesheet. I assume you have something like but where do
            Message 5 of 10 , Nov 2, 2000
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              > > > @media print {
              > > > object.full-plan {
              > > > position:absolute;
              > > > top:0;
              > > > left:0;
              > > > width:100%;
              > > > height:100%;
              > > > }
              > > > }

              I do not quite understand how to apply this stylesheet. I assume
              you have something like

              <FRAMESET>
              <FRAME SRC="test.svg" />
              </FRAMESET>

              but where do styles go?

              > > >
              > > > Which will nicely fit the image to the page size but at the
              > > > resolution of the displayed 200 pixel wide image (which is
              > > > unreadable)!
              > >
              > > Which browser do you use? I think I understand why this is
              > > happening, but I need browser and version to try to reproduce
              > > it here (IE 4.x and IE 5 print very differently from IE 5.5
              > > and Netscape).
              > >
              >
              > Sorry I forgot that vital pice of information, Yes it is Internet
              > Explorer 5.5.
              > Paul.

              Are you sure you do not use IE 5.5 beta? They had a bug
              that seemed to be very similar: no ActiveX controls (even
              MS own) would print if its width and height was more then
              about 300. I don't think it resulted in a big spool file,
              though...

              We have not had a very good chance to test IE 5.5 with
              Version 1.0, as it shiped right before we did and their
              ActiveX printing architecture was *completely* redesigned
              and was very buggy in betas (and still is faily buggy).

              Also, as a result of redesign, IE does not give ActiveX
              controls a chance to see printer's DC (device context)
              anymore. Instead, control is supposed to write its image
              to a metafile. This metafile's "native" resolution is the
              same as screen (we always bump up resolution if it seems
              too low, but this gets us up to about only 200dpi).
              So we do not have a chance to produce such a high quality
              printouts on IE 5.5 (it takes less time to print, though).

              >
              > > And, as I understand from your previous post, if you make
              > > you frame, say 800 pixels wide, it spools, but does not
              > > print at all, is that right?
              > >
              >
              > I get just the frame border but no SVG content.
              > Paul.
              >

              Does print preview on IE 5.5 acts the same way?

              Also, have you tried any other browser (or Mac)?

              Peter
            • paulh@woodley-rdt.co.uk
              Thanks Peter, I ve tried to insert answers to your questions below. ... I have a HTML page with the frame set below:
              Message 6 of 10 , Nov 3, 2000
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                Thanks Peter,
                I've tried to insert answers to your questions below.

                --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@y...>
                wrote:
                > > > > @media print {
                > > > > object.full-plan {
                > > > > position:absolute;
                > > > > top:0;
                > > > > left:0;
                > > > > width:100%;
                > > > > height:100%;
                > > > > }
                > > > > }
                >
                > I do not quite understand how to apply this stylesheet. I assume
                > you have something like
                >
                > <FRAMESET>
                > <FRAME SRC="test.svg" />
                > </FRAMESET>
                >
                > but where do styles go?

                I have a HTML page with the frame set below:

                <frameset id="NavigateOverviewPlanSplit"
                framespacing="0" rows="100%,*,0" >
                <frame frameborder="0" name="plan-view"
                src="NavigationPlan.html" scrolling="no" noresize />
                <frame frameborder="0" name="plan-overview-
                gap" src="BlankPage.html" scrolling="no" noresize />
                <frame frameborder="0" name="plan-overview-
                view" src="OverviewPlan.html" scrolling="no" noresize />
                </frameset>

                Note: the 0 height 'OverviewPlan' is expanded later but not used in
                this instance (and I've just checked that it doesn't effect the
                result of the print).

                and then in the 'NavigationPlan.html' I have:

                <object id="plan" class="full-plan"
                data="../../Control/SalesFlr.svg" type="image/svg" standby="Sales
                floor plan" >
                </object>

                To which the object style applies. So I guess there's another level
                of HTML document over what you were assuming.

                >
                > > > >
                > > > > Which will nicely fit the image to the page size but at the
                > > > > resolution of the displayed 200 pixel wide image (which is
                > > > > unreadable)!
                > > >
                > > > Which browser do you use? I think I understand why this is
                > > > happening, but I need browser and version to try to reproduce
                > > > it here (IE 4.x and IE 5 print very differently from IE 5.5
                > > > and Netscape).
                > > >
                > >
                > > Sorry I forgot that vital pice of information, Yes it is Internet
                > > Explorer 5.5.
                > > Paul.
                >
                > Are you sure you do not use IE 5.5 beta? They had a bug
                > that seemed to be very similar: no ActiveX controls (even
                > MS own) would print if its width and height was more then
                > about 300. I don't think it resulted in a big spool file,
                > though...
                >

                The About box says it is Version 5.50.4030.2400 which I believe is
                the latest!?

                > We have not had a very good chance to test IE 5.5 with
                > Version 1.0, as it shiped right before we did and their
                > ActiveX printing architecture was *completely* redesigned
                > and was very buggy in betas (and still is faily buggy).
                >
                > Also, as a result of redesign, IE does not give ActiveX
                > controls a chance to see printer's DC (device context)
                > anymore. Instead, control is supposed to write its image
                > to a metafile. This metafile's "native" resolution is the
                > same as screen (we always bump up resolution if it seems
                > too low, but this gets us up to about only 200dpi).
                > So we do not have a chance to produce such a high quality
                > printouts on IE 5.5 (it takes less time to print, though).
                >
                > >
                > > > And, as I understand from your previous post, if you make
                > > > you frame, say 800 pixels wide, it spools, but does not
                > > > print at all, is that right?
                > > >
                > >
                > > I get just the frame border but no SVG content.
                > > Paul.
                > >
                >
                > Does print preview on IE 5.5 acts the same way?
                >
                Yes, print preview acts very similarly.

                > Also, have you tried any other browser (or Mac)?
                >
                No not yet! I'm trying to test Explorer 5 on an iMac but haven't
                managed to download it yet! I'll try again this weekend.
                Unfortunately our product isn't destined for the Web and relies on
                features in IE 5, so will not do a lot in Netscape. But I can try
                making a cut-down example to test.
                I'll let you know what happens,
                Paul.




                > Peter
              • Martin Girschick
                When we talk about printing: Try to print the following svg:
                Message 7 of 10 , Nov 7, 2000
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                  When we talk about printing: Try to print the following svg:

                  <svg width="20cm" height="15cm">
                  <rect x="16.41cm" y="2cm" height="11.7cm" width="0.6cm"
                  style="stroke-width:0.1mm; fill:none; stroke:gray"/>
                  <g transform="translate(2.2cm 2.5cm) rotate(90)" style
                  ="font-family:Verdana; font-size:14pt">
                  <text x="0cm" y="-14.35cm">Cover</text>
                  </g>
                  </svg>

                  At least on my Mac (IE and NC) the Text is printed at the wrong position.

                  Hopefully a future version of the Adobe-SVG-Plugin resolves this
                  (nice to hear that some functionality will be borrowed from Acrobat).

                  Regards,

                  Martin
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