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sometimes I take SVG for granted

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  • David Dailey
    When I write code like d= M 100, 100 C 300, 100 100,300 300,300 I usually don t remember how hard it was to do things like that in the good old days. Today I
    Message 1 of 5 , Feb 18, 2014
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      When I write code like d=”M 100, 100 C 300, 100 100,300 300,300” I usually don’t remember how hard it was to do things like that in the good old days.

       

      Today I really wanted something to work across browsers – it took me 15 minutes to cobble something together using SMIL animation that worked in all browsers but Internet Explorer. I spent the rest of the afternoon getting it to work in IE. Getting the timing loops synchronized (synchronizing integer and floating point loops) was a royal pain. It was not instructive; I am not a better person for the effort (I have done the same bloody thing scores of times before).  And I realized that without being able to say

      <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

      Or

      <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" keyTimes=”0;.1;.9;1”  dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

       

      ---

      I’m going to have to struggle for another hour or two to get the fadein and fadeout correct.

       

      It just reminded me of how nice the SVG philosophy of markup is. Thank-you Chris Lilley and Jon Ferraiolo and the others for the early work on behalf of authors and artists!  

       

      Cheers

      David

       

       

       

    • Jon Ferraiolo
      From Chris, Jon and the rest of the folks who worked on the original SVG spec, thanks for the thanks! Regarding the convenient animation syntax (that was
      Message 2 of 5 , Feb 18, 2014
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        From Chris, Jon and the rest of the folks who worked on the original SVG
        spec, thanks for the thanks! Regarding the convenient animation syntax
        (that was implemented in dozens of user agents, and then MS deciding 10
        years after the spec was out that they didn't want to implement it, grrr),
        that came mostly from the SMIL Animation guys (Aaron/Intel, Patrick/MS,
        Chris/W3C and me/Adobe at the time). Maybe the animation syntax in SMIL was
        informed by the PGML submission (which was mostly me) and maybe by HTML
        +SMIL, but that's so long ago, I can't remember how things happened
        exactly.

        It is indeed a royal pain that IE doesn't support SMIL in SVG. I ran into a
        similar time-wasting effort because of this recently. For me, I wanted to
        animate something that needed to run on desktop browsers and mobile
        browsers. Older Mac Safari doesn't support CSS animations on SVG content.
        It would have been easy to switch to SMIL for the SVG animations, but,
        doh!, IE doesn't support that. To make things work across all browsers, I
        ended up having two code paths, one which used CSS animations on SVG
        content, and then for older mobile Safari, I used the SVG-to-canvas trick
        to rasterize the SVG, and then temporarily hid the SVG, animated the
        raster/canvas with CSS, and then restored the SVG when the animation was
        done.

        Jon





        From: "David Dailey" <ddailey@...>
        To: <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
        Date: 02/18/2014 03:19 PM
        Subject: [svg-developers] sometimes I take SVG for granted
        Sent by: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com





        When I write code like d=”M 100, 100 C 300, 100 100,300 300,300” I usually
        don’t remember how hard it was to do things like that in the good old days.

        Today I really wanted something to work across browsers – it took me 15
        minutes to cobble something together using SMIL animation that worked in
        all browsers but Internet Explorer. I spent the rest of the afternoon
        getting it to work in IE. Getting the timing loops synchronized
        (synchronizing integer and floating point loops) was a royal pain. It was
        not instructive; I am not a better person for the effort (I have done the
        same bloody thing scores of times before). And I realized that without
        being able to say
        <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" dur="4s"
        repeatCount="indefinite" />!
        Or
        <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" keyTimes=”0;.1;.9;1”
        dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

        ---
        I’m going to have to struggle for another hour or two to get the fadein and
        fadeout correct.

        It just reminded me of how nice the SVG philosophy of markup is. Thank-you
        Chris Lilley and Jon Ferraiolo and the others for the early work on behalf
        of authors and artists!

        Cheers
        David









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • jcdeering1
        Interesting topic, but not very informative. Perhaps some of you might shed light on how the SVG working group got neutered? Seems to me that a standards body
        Message 3 of 5 , Feb 19, 2014
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          Interesting topic, but not very informative. Perhaps some of you might shed light on how the SVG working group got neutered? Seems to me that a standards body should not be subjected to the whims of a corporation like Microsoft. Perhaps instead of bemoaning the situation some thought should be made as to how to correct the situation. I personally would like to see a rating system for browsers, much like restaurant ratings, where a browser is given an A, B or C rating as to its standards compliance. Also, how did the CSS group obtain so much power over the direction of the web? CSS, I find to be way over used outside of its original intention.

          Anyway, hope someone can come clean, the W3C has some juicy internal intrigue and corruption that would make for some juicy gossip.

          James
        • David Leunen
          Hi David, How do you animate in IE ? Many years ago, I wrote FakeSmile . Some managed to make it work in IE. Doesn t it help for
          Message 4 of 5 , Feb 21, 2014
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            Hi David,

            How do you animate in IE ?
            Many years ago, I wrote FakeSmile. Some managed to make it work in IE.
            Doesn't it help for your case ?
            And if not, what is the issue ?


            D.

            On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:19 AM, David Dailey <ddailey@...> wrote:


            When I write code like d=”M 100, 100 C 300, 100 100,300 300,300” I usually don’t remember how hard it was to do things like that in the good old days.

             

            Today I really wanted something to work across browsers – it took me 15 minutes to cobble something together using SMIL animation that worked in all browsers but Internet Explorer. I spent the rest of the afternoon getting it to work in IE. Getting the timing loops synchronized (synchronizing integer and floating point loops) was a royal pain. It was not instructive; I am not a better person for the effort (I have done the same bloody thing scores of times before).  And I realized that without being able to say

            <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

            Or

            <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" keyTimes=”0;.1;.9;1”  dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

             

            ---

            I’m going to have to struggle for another hour or two to get the fadein and fadeout correct.

             

            It just reminded me of how nice the SVG philosophy of markup is. Thank-you Chris Lilley and Jon Ferraiolo and the others for the early work on behalf of authors and artists!  

             

            Cheers

            David



          • David Dailey
            Hi David, I and my students have used and relied on FakeSmile a number of times over the years. I view it as a project akin to and declarative
            Message 5 of 5 , Feb 23, 2014
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              Hi David,



              I and my students have used and relied on FakeSmile a number of times over the years. I view it as a project akin to <replicate> and declarative randomness (http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/RandomTalk.html) and therefore like it a lot!



              I just wasn’t thinking, and so, forgot about FakeSMILe’s existence. It may indeed be quite appropriate! I will have to give it a whirl on what I’ve been working with. I have about twenty examples of scene-to-scene transition effects done in SVG using SMIL (some of which, I gather, can’t be done in CSS3 at present) and so FakeSMILe may indeed save me a lot of work! There are lots of multivalued and nonnumeric animations.



              Thanks for reminding me! In the meantime, I would encourage folks to think about scene-to-scene transitions using SVG. I was very encouraged while in India that folks could see my presentations, built for the browser, just fine on their cell phones. Scalable really is valuable! SVG really does work better than HTML for “build once deploy everywhere” I think.



              Maybe it should be renamed VVG just to get a little extra market buzz!



              Cheers

              David



              From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Leunen
              Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:36 AM
              To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [svg-developers] sometimes I take SVG for granted





              Hi David,



              How do you animate in IE ?

              Many years ago, I wrote FakeSmile <http://leunen.me/fakesmile/> . Some managed to make it work in IE.

              Doesn't it help for your case ?

              And if not, what is the issue ?





              D.

              On Wed, Feb 19, 2014 at 12:19 AM, David Dailey <ddailey@...> wrote:



              When I write code like d=”M 100, 100 C 300, 100 100,300 300,300” I usually don’t remember how hard it was to do things like that in the good old days.



              Today I really wanted something to work across browsers – it took me 15 minutes to cobble something together using SMIL animation that worked in all browsers but Internet Explorer. I spent the rest of the afternoon getting it to work in IE. Getting the timing loops synchronized (synchronizing integer and floating point loops) was a royal pain. It was not instructive; I am not a better person for the effort (I have done the same bloody thing scores of times before). And I realized that without being able to say

              <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />

              Or

              <animate attributeName="opacity" values="0;1;1;0" keyTimes=”0;.1;.9;1” dur="4s" repeatCount="indefinite" />



              ---

              I’m going to have to struggle for another hour or two to get the fadein and fadeout correct.



              It just reminded me of how nice the SVG philosophy of markup is. Thank-you Chris Lilley and Jon Ferraiolo and the others for the early work on behalf of authors and artists!



              Cheers

              David









              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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