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The SVG Race: IE(1st) Chrome(2nd) FF(last)

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  • fhemsher
    I just finished a cross-browser effort on a web app. About 87% of viewers use IE, Chrome or FF. Based on zoom via moues wheel, and seamless rendering in both
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 9 7:14 PM

      I just finished a cross-browser effort on a web app. About 87% of viewers use

      IE, Chrome or FF.

      Based on zoom via moues wheel, and seamless rendering in both SVG and Canvas,, the preferred browser by far is IE10

      FF comes in as dead last place: It does not support svg zoom via the mouse wheel.

       

       For FF to be taken seriously by this SVGer, it must support the mouseWheel

       

      Francis 

    • Jacob Beard
      Hi, From a standards perspective, the built-in behaviour of the renderer on mousewheel events may best be regarded as user-agent specific behaviour, and
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 9 7:27 PM
        Hi,

        From a standards perspective, the built-in behaviour of the renderer on mousewheel events may best be regarded as user-agent specific behaviour, and unspecified. 

        An analogous situation is the behaviour of the backspace key: in Firefox on Linux, it is used to go back a page; but in Firefox on Windows, backspace is not bound to that behaviour. Nowhere in the HTML specification does it say how a user agent must behave to a backspace event. This is by design.

        Therefore, Firefox is technically probably not doing anything wrong.

        Best,

        Jake


        On Mon, Sep 9, 2013 at 10:14 PM, <fhemsher@...> wrote:
         

        I just finished a cross-browser effort on a web app. About 87% of viewers use

        IE, Chrome or FF.

        Based on zoom via moues wheel, and seamless rendering in both SVG and Canvas,, the preferred browser by far is IE10

        FF comes in as dead last place: It does not support svg zoom via the mouse wheel.

         

         For FF to be taken seriously by this SVGer, it must support the mouseWheel

         

        Francis 


      • Joe Doll
        IE10 won t render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other browsers on the
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 10 8:36 AM
          IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
          constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
          browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
          and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
          their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
        • fhemsher
          Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it s smooth and gives the user a good experience.
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 10 10:06 AM

            Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

            The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
            constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
            browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
            and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
            their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
          • fhemsher
            It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 12 9:59 AM

              It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

              The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

              IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
              constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
              browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
              and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
              their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
            • fhemsher
              Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it s fuzzy)...I guess I ll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that
              Message 6 of 14 , Sep 12 12:30 PM

                 Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
              • longsonr
                All fuzziness was fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today. Robert. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                Message 7 of 14 , Sep 17 2:26 PM

                  All fuzziness was fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                  Robert.



                  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                   Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                  The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                  IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                  constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                  browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                  and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                  their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
                • longsonr
                  All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today. Robert. --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, wrote:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Sep 17 2:27 PM

                    All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                    Robert.



                    --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                     Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                    --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                    --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                    The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                    --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                    IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                    constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                    browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                    and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                    their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
                  • Richard Pearman
                    Hi, The bug of it neither displaying nor allowing mouse events on objects with filters it can t do is still there. I know I really should do a test file and
                    Message 9 of 14 , Sep 18 10:47 AM
                      
                      Hi,
                       
                      The bug of it neither displaying nor allowing mouse events on objects with filters it can't do is still there. I know I really should do a test file and submit a proper bug report but I've got other things to do.
                       
                      Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
                      The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/
                      South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008
                      ----- Original Message -----
                      Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:26 PM
                      Subject: [svg-developers] RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: The SVG Race: IE(1st) Chrome(2nd) FF(last)

                       

                      All fuzziness was fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                      Robert.

                    • Jason Barnabas
                      A quick fix might be to cover the filtered object with a transparent (e.g. fill= none stroke= none ) or a mostly transparent (e.g. opacity= 0.001 ) one.
                      Message 10 of 14 , Sep 18 12:15 PM
                        A quick fix might be to "cover" the filtered object with a transparent (e.g. fill='none' stroke='none') or a mostly transparent (e.g. opacity='0.001') one.
                         
                        ============================================================

                        I must be travelling,
                        Jason

                        tc+ ?23 ?mgt mt tne ?t20 t4++ ?t5 ?tp tg+ ?th ?to
                        ru- ge++ 3i c++ jt- au+ ls pi+ ta+ he+
                        kk++ hi+ as+ va+ dr ?ith vr ne so+ zh vi da sy



                        From: Richard Pearman <rpearman@...>
                        To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2013 10:47 AM
                        Subject: Re: [svg-developers] RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: The SVG Race: IE(1st) Chrome(2nd) FF(last)

                        


                        Hi,
                         
                        The bug of it neither displaying nor allowing mouse events on objects with filters it can't do is still there. I know I really should do a test file and submit a proper bug report but I've got other things to do.
                         
                        Richard Pearman       http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
                        The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/
                        South Alberta Cactus and succulent society: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20360241008
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Tuesday, September 17, 2013 3:26 PM
                        Subject: [svg-developers] RE: RE: RE: RE: Re: The SVG Race: IE(1st) Chrome(2nd) FF(last)

                         
                        All fuzziness was fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.

                        Robert.




                      • fhemsher
                        I updated to FF 24. The fuzziness I alluded to was when I imported an SVG image into Canvas. Both IE and Chrome show the SVG without any fuzziness . FF still
                        Message 11 of 14 , Sep 18 12:25 PM

                          I updated to FF 24. The fuzziness I alluded to was when I imported an SVG image into Canvas. Both IE and Chrome show the  SVG without any 'fuzziness'. FF still does not render SVG as a scalable image, but seems to convert it to a rather poor quality raster image, thereby causing fuzziness.

                          Francis



                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                          Robert.



                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                           Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                          The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                          IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                          constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                          browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                          and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                          their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
                        • longsonr
                          Canvas is a raster format though, o nce you ve drawn onto it, all you have is pixels. If you have fuzziness perhaps it s because you re not matching the SVG
                          Message 12 of 14 , Sep 19 2:51 AM

                             

                            Canvas is a raster format though, once you've drawn onto it, all you have is pixels. If you have fuzziness perhaps it's because you're not matching the SVG object locations with pixels. Try adding 0.5 to the x and y co-ordinates of the SVG graphics.

                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <fhemsher@...> wrote:

                            I updated to FF 24. The fuzziness I alluded to was when I imported an SVG image into Canvas. Both IE and Chrome show the  SVG without any 'fuzziness'. FF still does not render SVG as a scalable image, but seems to convert it to a rather poor quality raster image, thereby causing fuzziness.

                            Francis



                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                            Robert.



                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                             Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                            The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                            IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                            constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                            browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                            and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                            their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
                          • fhemsher
                            Hi Robert, For some reason your post does show...Yahoo Groups seems to have a few bugs these days. Could you please re post. Thanks Francis --- In
                            Message 13 of 14 , Sep 19 8:23 AM

                              Hi Robert,

                              For some reason your post does show...Yahoo Groups seems to have a few bugs these days.

                              Could you please re post. 

                              Thanks

                              Francis 



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                               

                              Canvas is a raster format though, once you've drawn onto it, all you have is pixels. If you have fuzziness perhaps it's because you're not matching the SVG object locations with pixels. Try adding 0.5 to the x and y co-ordinates of the SVG graphics.

                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <fhemsher@...> wrote:

                              I updated to FF 24. The fuzziness I alluded to was when I imported an SVG image into Canvas. Both IE and Chrome show the  SVG without any 'fuzziness'. FF still does not render SVG as a scalable image, but seems to convert it to a rather poor quality raster image, thereby causing fuzziness.

                              Francis



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                              Robert.



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                               Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                              The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                              IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                              constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                              browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                              and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                              their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
                            • fhemsher
                              Well anyway...for SVG loaded into Canvas; it pretty much has been determined that Firefox s Gecko rendering engine converts the SVG to a bitmap immediately,
                              Message 14 of 14 , Sep 19 9:42 AM

                                Well anyway...for SVG loaded into Canvas; it pretty much has been determined that "Firefox's Gecko rendering engine converts the SVG to a bitmap immediately, whereas Webkit keeps it as SVG and renders it directly when needed". 



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Hi Robert,

                                For some reason your post does show...Yahoo Groups seems to have a few bugs these days.

                                Could you please re post. 

                                Thanks

                                Francis 



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                 

                                Canvas is a raster format though, once you've drawn onto it, all you have is pixels. If you have fuzziness perhaps it's because you're not matching the SVG object locations with pixels. Try adding 0.5 to the x and y co-ordinates of the SVG graphics.

                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <fhemsher@...> wrote:

                                I updated to FF 24. The fuzziness I alluded to was when I imported an SVG image into Canvas. Both IE and Chrome show the  SVG without any 'fuzziness'. FF still does not render SVG as a scalable image, but seems to convert it to a rather poor quality raster image, thereby causing fuzziness.

                                Francis



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                All fuzziness is fixed in Firefox 24 which was released earlier today.


                                Robert.



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                 Nah, FF does not replicate SVG very well in canvas(it's fuzzy)...I guess I'll have to tell my app viewers not to use FF. So, my final determination is that Firefox is NOT the browser to use for dynamic SVG applications.



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                It seems the only way for me to get responsive SVG mouseWhees zoom with FF, is to place it into a canvas during the zoom. My  mouseWheel zoom for IE & Charome uses D3's  behavior. zoom..



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                Its sooo frustrating for me to see my SVG rendering as clunky as it is in the FF browser. In Chrome and IE it's smooth and gives the user a good experience.

                                The mouseWheel is becoming the user's default  expectation to zoom into an image. Since zooming into SVG imagery is its  major feature( i.e. Scalable), a browser that does not provide this ability is not fully supporting the needs of SVG.



                                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                                IE10 won't render a lot of things (e.g., SMIL tags). I work with SVG
                                constantly across browsers, and I find FF does better than the other
                                browsers on the feature side of things, but FF renders slower. Chrome
                                and IE10 render fast, but often have holes in the implementation. To
                                their credit, they patch the holes rather quickly most of the time.
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