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RE: [svg-developers] Re: What am I overlooking?

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  • David Dailey
    I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph s footprint (which some browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1, then
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 11, 2013
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      I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph's footprint (which some
      browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1,
      then top-aligned fonts like Hindi and the other non-Dravidian Indian scipts,
      as well as reverse directional scripts would be straightforward. What
      problems does Hindi present? I used Tamil just fine in my talk in Chennai a
      year ago though it is Dravidian, and my Chinese seems to have been
      acceptable in Guangzhou. Our paper on text and accessibility
      http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html talks about a
      need for general solutions to alignment, shaping, and the like, as well, as
      the need to be able to create, customized, roll-your-own fonts on the fly.
      Half the world's writing uses standardized fonts; another half (for shop
      signs, graffiti, menus, logos and the like) uses roll-your-own fonts
      custom-built for specific problems.). Throwing away SVG fonts means dooming
      half the world's expressions to bitmaps.



      Cheers

      D



      From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Robert Longson
      Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:24 PM
      To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [svg-developers] Re: What am I overlooking?






      > The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to
      scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at
      http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and
      use lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs" Firefox, seems to be lagging quite
      behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which
      is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in
      the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I
      suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text
      handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML
      CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply
      them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some,
      but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my
      pessimism.
      >
      >

      It's true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has
      nothing to do with why we're not doing SVG fonts.

      SVG Fonts only support some of the world's languages. Those supported
      languages happen to include the one that you prefer to use - English. If
      your generally used Hindi for reading/writing you would be asking why you
      can't use SVG Fonts at all even in the UAs that support them rather than
      advocating that more UAs support something you just can't use.

      Robert.





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Robert Longson
      ... Complex shaping is missing from SVG Fonts. As for bitmaps only, that s not true either. In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 12, 2013
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        >
        > I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph's footprint (which some
        > browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1,
        > then top-aligned fonts like Hindi and the other non-Dravidian Indian scipts,
        > as well as reverse directional scripts would be straightforward. What
        > problems does Hindi present? I used Tamil just fine in my talk in Chennai a
        > year ago though it is Dravidian, and my Chinese seems to have been
        > acceptable in Guangzhou. Our paper on text and accessibility
        > http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html talks about a
        > need for general solutions to alignment, shaping, and the like, as well, as
        > the need to be able to create, customized, roll-your-own fonts on the fly.
        > Half the world's writing uses standardized fonts; another half (for shop
        > signs, graffiti, menus, logos and the like) uses roll-your-own fonts
        > custom-built for specific problems.). Throwing away SVG fonts means dooming
        > half the world's expressions to bitmaps.
        >

        Complex shaping is missing from SVG Fonts.

        As for bitmaps only, that's not true either. In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jun/0636.html, https://wiki.mozilla.org/SVGOpenTypeFonts and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719286 for more information.

        Robert
      • jamesd
        ... I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format? James
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Longson" wrote:

          >In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics.>

          I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format?

          James
        • Robert Longson
          The links I provided in the previous post is all I know. Looks like the bug still needs additional documentation judging by the dev-doc-needed marker. Robert.
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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            The links I provided in the previous post is all I know. Looks like the bug still needs additional documentation judging by the dev-doc-needed marker.

            Robert.

            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesd" wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Longson" wrote:
            >
            > >In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics.>
            >
            > I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format?
            >
            > James
            >
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