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What am I overlooking?

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  • Jerrold Maddox
    The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower series is cut off in Firefox and Opera. Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 10, 2013
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      The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
      series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
      Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?

      http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html

      Thanks.
      Jerry


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erik Dahlstrom
      ... Judging by the content you should add: viewBox= 0 0 500 550 . Otherwise you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the resolved
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 10, 2013
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        On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox <jxm22@...> wrote:

        > The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
        > series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
        > Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
        >
        > http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
        >
        > Thanks.
        > Jerry

        Judging by the content you should add: viewBox="0 0 500 550". Otherwise
        you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
        resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).

        Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
        (500x550px).

        Or you could add some CSS:
        html, body { height: 100% }

        My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.

        Cheers
        --
        Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
        Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
        Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
      • David Dailey
        It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example rendered across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw in the four
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 10, 2013
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          It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example rendered across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw in the four browsers Jerry reported on, my observations were quite different than his.



          Would we not expect SVG in HTML to render more consistently across browsers? If so would that be an SVG WG thing or an HTML5 WG thing?



          Cheers

          David



          From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom
          Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:23 PM
          To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?





          On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox jxm22@... <mailto:jxm22%40psu.edu> > wrote:

          > The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
          > series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
          > Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
          >
          > http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
          >
          > Thanks.
          > Jerry

          Judging by the content you should add: viewBox="0 0 500 550". Otherwise
          you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
          resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).

          Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
          (500x550px).

          Or you could add some CSS:
          html, body { height: 100% }

          My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.

          Cheers
          --
          Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
          Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
          Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jerrold Maddox
          David Try this site too. Problems with both using unicode characters and svg. Different on all four the browsers - Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Safari
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 10, 2013
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            David

            Try this site too. Problems with both using unicode characters and svg.
            Different on all four the browsers - Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Safari

            http://clarify.site44.com/smallgraphics.html

            Jerry

            On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:43 PM, David Dailey <ddailey@...>wrote:

            > **
            >
            >
            > It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example
            > rendered across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw
            > in the four browsers Jerry reported on, my observations were quite
            > different than his.
            >
            > Would we not expect SVG in HTML to render more consistently across
            > browsers? If so would that be an SVG WG thing or an HTML5 WG thing?
            >
            > Cheers
            >
            > David
            >
            > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:
            > svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom
            > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:23 PM
            > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
            >
            >
            > On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox jxm22@... > wrote:
            >
            > > The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
            > > series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
            > > Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
            > >
            > > http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
            > >
            > > Thanks.
            > > Jerry
            >
            > Judging by the content you should add: viewBox="0 0 500 550". Otherwise
            > you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
            > resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).
            >
            > Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
            > (500x550px).
            >
            > Or you could add some CSS:
            > html, body { height: 100% }
            >
            > My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.
            >
            > Cheers
            > --
            > Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
            > Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
            > Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
            >
            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            >
            >
            >


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • David Dailey
            Hi Jerry, At http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/font_effects_JM_IE9.jpg you can see what it looks like in IE9 – yet one more interpretation. I think part of this has
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 10, 2013
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              Hi Jerry,



              At http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/font_effects_JM_IE9.jpg you can see what it looks like in IE9 – yet one more interpretation.



              I think part of this has to do with word-spacing and line height.



              The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and use lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs" Firefox, seems to be lagging quite behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some, but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my pessimism.



              In your play with fonts, you might enjoy this subset of the open font Symbola, available as both glyphs and paths at

              http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/SymbolaB1.svg -- the entire emoji Unicode plus some emojiPlus characters are there.



              In Firefox, you will see radically different versions of things using the same version of Firefox in the same OS, but on different machines since it seems intent on pulling from installed system fonts rather than relying on path data;



              The score card for browsers support of SVG fonts can be seen at http://tech.dir.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/65934



              Many of the SVG WG seem not to know this information, so please don’t tell them ;) It will be our secret.



              David





              From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jerrold Maddox
              Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 2:04 PM
              To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?





              David

              Try this site too. Problems with both using unicode characters and svg.
              Different on all four the browsers - Chrome, Firefox, Opera and Safari

              http://clarify.site44.com/smallgraphics.html

              Jerry

              On Thu, Jan 10, 2013 at 12:43 PM, David Dailey ddailey@... <mailto:ddailey%40zoominternet.net> >wrote:

              > **
              >
              >
              > It was fascinating to me to see how inconsistently Jerry’s example
              > rendered across browsers. IE9 did something still different and what I saw
              > in the four browsers Jerry reported on, my observations were quite
              > different than his.
              >
              > Would we not expect SVG in HTML to render more consistently across
              > browsers? If so would that be an SVG WG thing or an HTML5 WG thing?
              >
              > Cheers
              >
              > David
              >
              > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
              > svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of Erik Dahlstrom
              > Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:23 PM
              > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <mailto:svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [svg-developers] What am I overlooking?
              >
              >
              > On Thu, 10 Jan 2013 16:51:22 +0100, Jerrold Maddox jxm22@... <mailto:jxm22%40psu.edu> > wrote:
              >
              > > The is site using svg that works in Chrome and Safari, but half the lower
              > > series is cut off in Firefox and Opera.
              > > Can anyone suggest a way to fix it?
              > >
              > > http://clarify.site44.com/opacity.html
              > >
              > > Thanks.
              > > Jerry
              >
              > Judging by the content you should add: viewBox="0 0 500 550". Otherwise
              > you might get some parts of the svg clipped no matter what (depends on the
              > resolved size of the CSS box for the svg).
              >
              > Alternatively you could set width and height to the same absolute values
              > (500x550px).
              >
              > Or you could add some CSS:
              > html, body { height: 100% }
              >
              > My recommendation would be to define the coordinate system with viewBox.
              >
              > Cheers
              > --
              > Erik Dahlstrom, Core Technology Developer, Opera Software
              > Co-Chair, W3C SVG Working Group
              > Personal blog: http://my.opera.com/macdev_ed
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Robert Longson
              ... It s true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has nothing to do with why we re not doing SVG fonts. SVG Fonts only support some of
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 11, 2013
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                > The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and use lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs" Firefox, seems to be lagging quite behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some, but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my pessimism.
                >
                >

                It's true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has nothing to do with why we're not doing SVG fonts.

                SVG Fonts only support some of the world's languages. Those supported languages happen to include the one that you prefer to use - English. If your generally used Hindi for reading/writing you would be asking why you can't use SVG Fonts at all even in the UAs that support them rather than advocating that more UAs support something you just can't use.

                Robert.
              • Jerrold Maddox
                It wouldn t just be in svg. http://www.personal.psu.edu/jxm22/unsupported.html Jerry ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 11, 2013
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                  It wouldn't just be in svg.
                  http://www.personal.psu.edu/jxm22/unsupported.html

                  Jerry

                  On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 12:23 PM, Robert Longson <longsonr@...>wrote:

                  > **
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > > The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence
                  > to scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at
                  > http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength
                  > and use lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs" Firefox, seems to be lagging quite
                  > behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1
                  > which is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at
                  > least in the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of
                  > progress, I suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced
                  > text handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the
                  > HTML CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to
                  > apply them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose
                  > some, but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with
                  > my pessimism.
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > It's true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has
                  > nothing to do with why we're not doing SVG fonts.
                  >
                  > SVG Fonts only support some of the world's languages. Those supported
                  > languages happen to include the one that you prefer to use - English. If
                  > your generally used Hindi for reading/writing you would be asking why you
                  > can't use SVG Fonts at all even in the UAs that support them rather than
                  > advocating that more UAs support something you just can't use.
                  >
                  > Robert.
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • David Dailey
                  I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph s footprint (which some browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1, then
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 11, 2013
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                    I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph's footprint (which some
                    browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1,
                    then top-aligned fonts like Hindi and the other non-Dravidian Indian scipts,
                    as well as reverse directional scripts would be straightforward. What
                    problems does Hindi present? I used Tamil just fine in my talk in Chennai a
                    year ago though it is Dravidian, and my Chinese seems to have been
                    acceptable in Guangzhou. Our paper on text and accessibility
                    http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html talks about a
                    need for general solutions to alignment, shaping, and the like, as well, as
                    the need to be able to create, customized, roll-your-own fonts on the fly.
                    Half the world's writing uses standardized fonts; another half (for shop
                    signs, graffiti, menus, logos and the like) uses roll-your-own fonts
                    custom-built for specific problems.). Throwing away SVG fonts means dooming
                    half the world's expressions to bitmaps.



                    Cheers

                    D



                    From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
                    On Behalf Of Robert Longson
                    Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 12:24 PM
                    To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: [svg-developers] Re: What am I overlooking?






                    > The only way I could get text to scale properly to a viewBox (and hence to
                    scale in a device-independent way) for most of the examples at
                    http://srufaculty.sru.edu/david.dailey/svg/text/ was to set textLength and
                    use lengthAdjust="spacingAndGlyphs" Firefox, seems to be lagging quite
                    behind in its support of the advanced text handling features of SVG1.1 which
                    is why, I gather, they are recommending that support for text, at least in
                    the form of SVG fonts be dropped from SVG2.0, in the name of progress, I
                    suppose. It remains to be seen if all other aspects of advanced text
                    handling will be dropped from SVG. Part of it, I gather, is that the HTML
                    CSS crowd have discovered how cool SVG effects are and they want to apply
                    them to HTML even if it means trashing SVG in the process. I suppose some,
                    but not all members of the SVG WG might have reason to disagree with my
                    pessimism.
                    >
                    >

                    It's true that Firefox is lagging behind with some text features. That has
                    nothing to do with why we're not doing SVG fonts.

                    SVG Fonts only support some of the world's languages. Those supported
                    languages happen to include the one that you prefer to use - English. If
                    your generally used Hindi for reading/writing you would be asking why you
                    can't use SVG Fonts at all even in the UAs that support them rather than
                    advocating that more UAs support something you just can't use.

                    Robert.





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Robert Longson
                    ... Complex shaping is missing from SVG Fonts. As for bitmaps only, that s not true either. In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That
                    Message 9 of 11 , Jan 12, 2013
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                      >
                      > I always assumed that if we had access to a glyph's footprint (which some
                      > browsers do) together with the various test-alignment properties in SVG 1.1,
                      > then top-aligned fonts like Hindi and the other non-Dravidian Indian scipts,
                      > as well as reverse directional scripts would be straightforward. What
                      > problems does Hindi present? I used Tamil just fine in my talk in Chennai a
                      > year ago though it is Dravidian, and my Chinese seems to have been
                      > acceptable in Guangzhou. Our paper on text and accessibility
                      > http://cs.sru.edu/~ddailey/svg/GeometricAccessibility.html talks about a
                      > need for general solutions to alignment, shaping, and the like, as well, as
                      > the need to be able to create, customized, roll-your-own fonts on the fly.
                      > Half the world's writing uses standardized fonts; another half (for shop
                      > signs, graffiti, menus, logos and the like) uses roll-your-own fonts
                      > custom-built for specific problems.). Throwing away SVG fonts means dooming
                      > half the world's expressions to bitmaps.
                      >

                      Complex shaping is missing from SVG Fonts.

                      As for bitmaps only, that's not true either. In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics. See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2011Jun/0636.html, https://wiki.mozilla.org/SVGOpenTypeFonts and https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=719286 for more information.

                      Robert
                    • jamesd
                      ... I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format? James
                      Message 10 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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                        --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Longson" wrote:

                        >In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics.>

                        I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format?

                        James
                      • Robert Longson
                        The links I provided in the previous post is all I know. Looks like the bug still needs additional documentation judging by the dev-doc-needed marker. Robert.
                        Message 11 of 11 , Jan 13, 2013
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                          The links I provided in the previous post is all I know. Looks like the bug still needs additional documentation judging by the dev-doc-needed marker.

                          Robert.

                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jamesd" wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Robert Longson" wrote:
                          >
                          > >In Firefox 18 you can embed SVG glyphs within Opentype fonts. That way you get the complex shaping capability of OpenType together with SVG for the individual graphics.>
                          >
                          > I thought that WOFF was the font Firefox selected for use on the web? How do I embedded SVG fonts into a WOFF format?
                          >
                          > James
                          >
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