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Re: SVG comic site improved?

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  • Richard Pearman
    Hi, OK Terry makes a number of points, with varying degrees of validity, so this is going to get a bit lengthy. ... I think this is overly simplistic. I did
    Message 1 of 30 , Apr 29, 2009
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      OK Terry makes a number of points, with varying degrees of validity, so this is going to get a bit lengthy.

      --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Terry Riegel <riegel@...> wrote:
      > Richard,
      > Your not listening. Your response to many of Doug's suggestions below
      > was "nope gonna do it my way".

      I think this is overly simplistic. I did things the way they are for reasons and I'm not convinced that Doug knows better than me or that somebody else isn't going to say they agree with me or come up with yet another idea. I haven't really decided what to do yet. If you don't think I'm right about objecting to Doug's ideas, I'd like to hear specific arguments rather than just assuming that Doug's right.

      > I tried again to figure out your site
      > and am today more confused than the first time I visited it.

      Thanks for your persistance.

      > I still
      > am not sure what comic is your latest. I clicked a link that said
      > latest and got some youtube videos.

      What link was that?

      > When I go to the site I see two links that I would call prominent
      > "ENTER MAXIMIZED" and "ENTER THIS FRAME" but I also get a warning
      > regarding SVG content but am not sure why I am getting it since I am
      > visiting with Safari.

      I seem to remember that the consensus on this list was that SVG viewer/browser detection scripts were more trouble than they are worth so I just warn everybody.

      > So in my mind I am thinking is this working.
      > Then below a horizontal rule I see 6 random images that I am not sure
      > if they are part of the site or what there purpose is. I clicked on a
      > few and was taken to who knows where. This made me nervous about
      > clicking anything else since I didn't know what would happen when I
      > clicked.

      The animated one with the pixelpalaces logo on it take you to my website design company website - the standard practice of linking to your main site from every page.

      The one marked Comic Rank takes you to the Comic Rank website. They want this on every page to help their ranking thing.

      The gargoil icon has a mailto link so you can contact me. Again standard practice of putting a contact link on every page.

      Webring comic strippers' ring - I though that was fairly self explanatory. Again this is a ploy for greater exposure.

      W3C - yes this is valid XHTML!

      Freehostia - my new hosting company.

      Then there's a repeat of part of the sliced image above. For some reason the only image on this page which Facebook seems able to find to use as a thumbnail is the Comic Rank one. This was an attempt to get round that and have Facebook display something more apropriate but it doesn't work.

      > So I decided to click "ENTER THIS FRAME"

      Yes this will take you to the main page. The "ENTER MAXIMIZED" will also do that but in a maximized window.

      > and from reading what you
      > said previously "There is a prominent link to the most recent comic."
      > I decide my best course of action (although I had no clue what my best
      > course of action was. What I wanted was to see a comic.) is to click
      > the Link entitled "RECENT"

      There is no link marked "RECENT" on this page. There is one marked "LATEST". I assume this is what you mean. I thought this was pretty obvious as the link to the most recent comic.

      > I was greeted with the following Text...
      > --------
      > TRIAL OF HUMANY - Part IX Clash of the Sea Monsters
      > Dragon Knights: Archives icon
      > ARCHIVES
      > The super heroic action continues in a computer animated movie
      > MOVIE
      > This is being added in sections. They will eventually be combined and
      > there will be a soundtrack.
      > • Title sequence - added 27/6/07
      > • Space ship launch - added 27/7/07
      > • Leopleurodon and Dawn - added 2/10/7
      > • Leviathan and Mech: Rushdi - added on 6/12/7
      > • Tiffy, Chickita and Hernandez - added on 26/6/08
      > • A sea monster apropaches a ship. - added on 18/3/09

      The last of these links is what you want. Again I thought obvious.

      > -------
      > I assumed my navigation was in the bulleted list, but every link I
      > clicked took me to http://www.freehostia.com/ via some sort of
      > redirect. So I assumed those were not the links I wanted.

      Now you've found a problem I wasn't aware of. These link to avi files and the expected behaviour is for Windows Media Player, or Real Player or something to open up and display them. However IE stopped doing this a while back but I don't know why. The redirect to Freehostia's website is a new thing relating to my new hosting company and obviously needs to be dealt with. I don't know how but will look into it.

      > This text took up the top third of my display (Apple 30" 2560x1600)
      > then the next 1/3 of the screen was filled with random clips to
      > youtube which as far as I could tell had nothing to do with the comic
      > site.

      This is an attempt to make money but adsense are discontinuing it so it will be changed soon.

      > The bottom 1/3 had what appeared to be more links to random
      > stuff (I knew this was probably not what I wanted since on the first
      > page I discovered it was a guessing game what clicking on that stuff
      > would do.

      Online Comics - links to Online Comics - a web comic directory. This can be slow to load and has been prone to being down a lot lately but that's beyond my control.

      Vote TWC TOP 100 - is so you can vote for my comic on Top Web Comics.

      Support PixelPalaces at OnlineComics.net is for you to vote on Online Comics.

      Review Me O.OO - is for you to review my comic on Choice Comics.net

      Animated Pixelpalaces logo take you to my web design site as always.

      Archives - comic archives

      Gargoil - mailto link as allways.

      W3C - same as above.

      > But... as I looked closer there was this little sliver at the top of
      > the bottom third that said "Start" "Part VIII" "Part IX extra" and
      > "Latest"
      > Still not sure what all this meant I decide the best course would be
      > to click on the one titled start. Was I clicking on the start of the
      > most recent comic?

      No this leads to the Start of the "Trial of Humanity" comics.

      > Not sure. Was I clicking on the start of all the
      > comics? Not sure. Should I have clicked latest? Or would that be the
      > latest installment of this comic? Or does it work that way? How does
      > it work? I still didn't (and still don't) know.
      > So I decide to click "Start" and .... ahhhh haaa I think I am viewing
      > an SVG thing. So I was able to see the SVG comic. Which One I was
      > looking at? Not sure? I think it is "Trial of Humanity" since that is
      > what it says on the left of this page but it looks like the word
      > "Book" is obscuring the title. Must be some sort of SVG issue.

      Unfortunately Safari handles fonts differently from ASV so the text sizes are wrong.

      > happened next left doubt in my mind if I was looking at the right
      > comic of now.
      > At this point I get the idea I am finally looking at a comic. It have
      > 4 simple choices "Intro" "Orientation" "Part 1" and "FORUM". Seems
      > simple enough although I wonder what "FORUM" is. So I click on "Intro"
      > expecting to see the beginning of the comic but it takes me to this
      > URL http://www.pixelpalaces.com/dk/DR_intro.htm which now looks like a
      > HTML page not a comic. This is confusing as I thought I was looking at
      > a comic.

      I couldn't get this why I tried using Safar, I got the comercial page linking to Orientation. The Intro page is an HTML page.

      > So I hit the back button and try "Orientation" this turns up
      > this page...
      > http://www.pixelpalaces.com/CGI-LOCAL/combreak.cgi?D=orientation.svgz&L=Orientation&F=toh-note.txt&T=toOrientation.txt

      Again an attempt to make money. There's an obvious link saying "Proceed to Orientation" on the right side.

      > Which seems to be saying I didn't do something correct. SO again I hit
      > the back button and think oh maybe I was supposed to click on the
      > space station looking thing. I click it and I am greeted with a popup
      > window with another long bit of HTML.

      This is a link to background information about the space ship.

      > Just tried to duplicate it to
      > post the URL I was getting and now I get another link that invites me
      > to watch some videos "Watch videos (and earn me some money)" So now I
      > am really confused. Once again I hit the back button.

      I'm not sure what you did there.

      > I am going to stop at this point as I feel like I have spent way to
      > much time trying to "look" at your site. I have no trouble accessing
      > it.

      Well that's an improvement.

      > Works great for me. My problem is I was not presented with a clear
      > idea of what was on the site and what I should do to navigate the
      > site. It just became to confusing to use and in the end was frustrating.

      Part of the problem was that my new hosting company has introduced a new problem with avi files. I'm definately going to try to fix this in the very near future. You're other main problem is related to my attempts to make money by displaying comercials between the comics (because I'm not sure there's a way to put adverts in SVGZ files and get paid for them). I'm going to have to change this for other reasons but I haven't decided how yet.

      > If you
      > don't like hearing that your site is hard to navigate then telling us
      > you overrated our intelligence will only make people defensive and
      > unhelpful.

      Simply saying that something is hard to navigate and not going into details is unhelpful. What you've done above is of more use and I will definately act on it. I think the thing about overating intelligence was about finding links in email.

      > I suggest you follow conventions for web sites that are
      > clear for end users.

      Most those web sites don't have SVG's.

      > I think you need to spend less time explaining to us why you did
      > things the way you did and more time trying to understand what is
      > being said to help you improve the site.

      The idea of explaining why I did things the way I did, is so hopefully somebody can come up with a way to acheive my objectives and improve user friendlyness.

      > I would recommend as a
      > starting point that you follow Doug's comments to the letter and then
      > think about tweaking it from there.

      You do realise that some of Doug's comments will take a lot of work and IMHO are questionable? For example putting things in a side bar.

      > Terry

      Richard Pearman http://www.pixelpalaces.com/
      The next stage in the evolution of web comics: http://www.onlinecomics.net/pages/details/listing.php?comicID=4415
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