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Re: What alternatives to ASV for IE6/7 ?

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  • Domenico Strazzullo
    ... case ... If this is true, you seem to be pretty fluent with SVG and from the first three points you make, you seem to be well aware of the rendering
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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      --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wirdnam" <yahoo@...> wrote:

      > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data islands...in
      case
      > that makes any difference to available options.

      If this is true, you seem to be pretty fluent with SVG and from the
      first three points you make, you seem to be well aware of the rendering
      engines/platform situation. Working for a large multi-national
      corporation, It would seem natural to address Microsoft direclty urging
      for a native SVG implementation, but in turn Microsoft could respond to
      that request by the magic word "Why not use Silverlight?".

      Is this what you wanted to hear? One thing is certain, you do work for
      a large multi-national corporation...

      Domenico Strazzullo.


      >
      > I work for a large multi-national corporation that has standardized
      on
      > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with native SVG
      > support is not an option.
      >
      > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the Adobe SVG Viewer
      going
      > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the Renesis plug-in,
      > but what other options do we have if we want to stay with SVG and IE?
      >
      > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data islands...in
      case
      > that makes any difference to available options.
      >
      > Please help!
      >
    • veiko herne
      Hi Paul As I didn t find Renesis yet working properly, maybe you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those are Java applets and should work with any
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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        Hi Paul

        As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
        you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
        are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
        browser.

        Veiko
        http://veikoh.wordpress.com

        --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@...> wrote:

        > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
        > has standardized on
        > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
        > native SVG
        > support is not an option.
        >
        > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
        > Adobe SVG Viewer going
        > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
        > Renesis plug-in,
        > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
        > with SVG and IE?
        >
        > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
        > islands...in case
        > that makes any difference to available options.
        >
        > Please help!
        >
        >
        >
        > -----
        > To unsubscribe send a message to:
        > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > -or-
        > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
        > and click "edit my membership"
        > ----
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        > (Yahoo! ID required)
        >
        > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >



        ___________________________________________________________________________________
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      • Domenico Strazzullo
        Veiko, Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts are probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others: dramatic topic
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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          Veiko,

          Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts are
          probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
          dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please help!"
          in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent, etc.
          They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to be
          contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been exposed
          to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would like
          to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
          lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to undermine
          SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
          suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
          doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why? In
          this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators (Doug,
          how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take part
          of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so, can
          we please gain back the access to the list's information?

          Domenico


          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi Paul
          >
          > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
          > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
          > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
          > browser.
          >
          > Veiko
          > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
          >
          > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@...> wrote:
          >
          > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
          > > has standardized on
          > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
          > > native SVG
          > > support is not an option.
          > >
          > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
          > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
          > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
          > > Renesis plug-in,
          > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
          > > with SVG and IE?
          > >
          > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
          > > islands...in case
          > > that makes any difference to available options.
          > >
          > > Please help!
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > -----
          > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
          > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          > > -or-
          > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
          > > and click "edit my membership"
          > > ----
          > > Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > > (Yahoo! ID required)
          > >
          > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          ______________________________________________________________________
          _____________
          > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
          > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
          > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
          >
        • Paul Wirdnam
          Domenico, I m more than happy to reply...I have no connection with Microsoft whatsoever; I m an IT architect employed by one of the major pharmaceutical
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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            Domenico,

            I'm more than happy to reply...I have no connection with Microsoft
            whatsoever; I'm an IT architect employed by one of the major
            pharmaceutical companies...and I'm saddened by your response to my
            request for help / advice.

            Sure, we have one in-house developer who is very competent in SVG
            programming...to the extend that we adopted SVG back in 2002 for
            delivering XML-based graphics on the web. At the time, and like many
            others, we standardized on the ASV for rendering in IE.

            With 2008 fast approaching, and with support for ASV being dropped, I
            have a responsibility to find alternative ways to render SVG in IE, so
            that our existing SVG applications can continue running in a
            supportable environment.

            I was hoping that this forum might suggest some options so that we may
            continue to use SVG with IE, and I'd like to thank Veiko for his.
            Based on your response, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't come here at all...

            Paul Wirdnam
            UK


            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Domenico Strazzullo" <nst@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Veiko,
            >
            > Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts are
            > probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
            > dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please help!"
            > in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent, etc.
            > They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to be
            > contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been exposed
            > to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would like
            > to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
            > lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to undermine
            > SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
            > suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
            > doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why? In
            > this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators (Doug,
            > how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take part
            > of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so, can
            > we please gain back the access to the list's information?
            >
            > Domenico
            >
            >
            > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > Hi Paul
            > >
            > > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
            > > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
            > > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
            > > browser.
            > >
            > > Veiko
            > > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
            > >
            > > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@> wrote:
            > >
            > > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
            > > > has standardized on
            > > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
            > > > native SVG
            > > > support is not an option.
            > > >
            > > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
            > > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
            > > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
            > > > Renesis plug-in,
            > > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
            > > > with SVG and IE?
            > > >
            > > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
            > > > islands...in case
            > > > that makes any difference to available options.
            > > >
            > > > Please help!
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > -----
            > > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
            > > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            > > > -or-
            > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
            > > > and click "edit my membership"
            > > > ----
            > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
            > > >
            > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
            > > >
            > > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > ______________________________________________________________________
            > _____________
            > > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
            > > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
            > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
            > >
            >
          • Paul Wirdnam
            Hi Veiko, Many thaanks for the suggestion...I hadn t considered a Java applet...however, because our SVG is generated on the client-side using XML data islands
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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              Hi Veiko,

              Many thaanks for the suggestion...I hadn't considered a Java
              applet...however, because our SVG is generated on the client-side
              using XML data islands and JavaScript, I'm going to assume that would
              require quite a lot of re-work for our existing SVG-based applications.

              I guess what I'm looking / hoping for was a straight plugin
              switch...from ASV to some other. But maybe there really isn't a
              viable alternative.

              Thanks

              Paul
              UK

              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hi Paul
              >
              > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
              > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
              > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
              > browser.
              >
              > Veiko
              > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
              >
              > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@...> wrote:
              >
              > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
              > > has standardized on
              > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
              > > native SVG
              > > support is not an option.
              > >
              > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
              > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
              > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
              > > Renesis plug-in,
              > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
              > > with SVG and IE?
              > >
              > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
              > > islands...in case
              > > that makes any difference to available options.
              > >
              > > Please help!
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > -----
              > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
              > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > -or-
              > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
              > > and click "edit my membership"
              > > ----
              > > Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > > (Yahoo! ID required)
              > >
              > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              ___________________________________________________________________________________
              > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
              > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
              > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
              >
            • Domenico Strazzullo
              And I m happy as I said I would, Paul, of your reply. You re right that in the immediate there s no equal replacement for ASV in IE7. I hope you do understand
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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                And I'm happy as I said I would, Paul, of your reply.

                You're right that in the immediate there's no equal replacement for
                ASV in IE7.

                I hope you do understand that it was not your physical person who was
                in cause.

                Best regards,

                Domenico


                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wirdnam" <yahoo@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Domenico,
                >
                > I'm more than happy to reply...I have no connection with Microsoft
                > whatsoever; I'm an IT architect employed by one of the major
                > pharmaceutical companies...and I'm saddened by your response to my
                > request for help / advice.
                >
                > Sure, we have one in-house developer who is very competent in SVG
                > programming...to the extend that we adopted SVG back in 2002 for
                > delivering XML-based graphics on the web. At the time, and like
                many
                > others, we standardized on the ASV for rendering in IE.
                >
                > With 2008 fast approaching, and with support for ASV being dropped,
                I
                > have a responsibility to find alternative ways to render SVG in IE,
                so
                > that our existing SVG applications can continue running in a
                > supportable environment.
                >
                > I was hoping that this forum might suggest some options so that we
                may
                > continue to use SVG with IE, and I'd like to thank Veiko for his.
                > Based on your response, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't come here at
                all...
                >
                > Paul Wirdnam
                > UK
                >
                >
                > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Domenico Strazzullo" <nst@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Veiko,
                > >
                > > Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts
                are
                > > probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
                > > dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please
                help!"
                > > in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent,
                etc.
                > > They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to
                be
                > > contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been
                exposed
                > > to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would
                like
                > > to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
                > > lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to
                undermine
                > > SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
                > > suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
                > > doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why?
                In
                > > this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators
                (Doug,
                > > how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take
                part
                > > of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so,
                can
                > > we please gain back the access to the list's information?
                > >
                > > Domenico
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@>
                > > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Hi Paul
                > > >
                > > > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
                > > > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
                > > > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
                > > > browser.
                > > >
                > > > Veiko
                > > > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
                > > >
                > > > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@> wrote:
                > > >
                > > > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
                > > > > has standardized on
                > > > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
                > > > > native SVG
                > > > > support is not an option.
                > > > >
                > > > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
                > > > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
                > > > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
                > > > > Renesis plug-in,
                > > > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
                > > > > with SVG and IE?
                > > > >
                > > > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
                > > > > islands...in case
                > > > > that makes any difference to available options.
                > > > >
                > > > > Please help!
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > > -----
                > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                > > > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > -or-
                > > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
                > > > > and click "edit my membership"
                > > > > ----
                > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > > > >
                > > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                > > > >
                > > > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                ______________________________________________________________________
                > > _____________
                > > > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
                > > > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                > > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
                > > >
                > >
                >
              • thomas.deweese@kodak.com
                Hi Veiko, ... How do your SVG applications access the local XML? Are they local SVG files? ... If you just need a container to run the SVG with JavaScript,
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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                  Hi Veiko,

                  svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote on 06/08/2007 02:42:34 PM:

                  > Many thaanks for the suggestion...I hadn't considered a Java
                  > applet...however, because our SVG is generated on the client-side
                  > using XML data islands and JavaScript, I'm going to assume that would
                  > require quite a lot of re-work for our existing SVG-based applications.

                  How do your SVG applications access the local XML? Are they
                  local SVG files?

                  > I guess what I'm looking / hoping for was a straight plugin
                  > switch...from ASV to some other. But maybe there really isn't a
                  > viable alternative.

                  If you just need a container to run the SVG with JavaScript,
                  Batik (also Java) might be considered. It wouldn't run in a
                  Browser it would be a separate app (you actually could run
                  Batik in a browser as an applet but it's a bit big for that).

                  Batik is a bit stricter on what it accepts for SVG/EcmaScript
                  but I think it implements just about everything ASV did.

                  > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne <veiko_h@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Hi Paul
                  > >
                  > > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
                  > > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
                  > > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
                  > > browser.
                  > >
                  > > Veiko
                  > > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
                  > >
                  > > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
                  > > > has standardized on
                  > > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
                  > > > native SVG
                  > > > support is not an option.
                  > > >
                  > > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
                  > > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
                  > > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
                  > > > Renesis plug-in,
                  > > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
                  > > > with SVG and IE?
                  > > >
                  > > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
                  > > > islands...in case
                  > > > that makes any difference to available options.
                  > > >
                  > > > Please help!
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > -----
                  > > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                  > > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  > > > -or-
                  > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
                  > > > and click "edit my membership"
                  > > > ----
                  > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > > >
                  > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                  > > >
                  > > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > __________________________________________________________
                  > > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
                  > > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                  > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
                  > >

                  >
                • Stephen Quintero
                  Hi All, First, while support for ASV will end as of 2008, I understand the existing plug-in will continue to be supplied by Adobe indefinitely. Also, the
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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                    Hi All,

                    First, while support for ASV will end as of 2008, I understand the existing
                    plug-in will continue to be supplied by Adobe indefinitely. Also, the
                    current stable release of ASV seems (to me) as good or better than the
                    developing native support. So you may be in less of a crunch than you
                    think. Unless you are pushing the limits of the SVG implementation in ASV.

                    It looks as if the browser vector graphics market is up in the air. SVG or
                    Flash or SilverLight or whatnext. What basket do you put your eggs in?
                    Since you already have a mature application in SVG, you might wait to see
                    how it all shakes out.

                    I also would like to see Renesis mature. I tried it on my app, which runs
                    happily under ASV and Firefox, but it was confused. Or maybe I am!

                    Stephen



                    On 6/8/07, Domenico Strazzullo <nst@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > And I'm happy as I said I would, Paul, of your reply.
                    >
                    > You're right that in the immediate there's no equal replacement for
                    > ASV in IE7.
                    >
                    > I hope you do understand that it was not your physical person who was
                    > in cause.
                    >
                    > Best regards,
                    >
                    > Domenico
                    >
                    > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "Paul Wirdnam" <yahoo@...>
                    >
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Domenico,
                    > >
                    > > I'm more than happy to reply...I have no connection with Microsoft
                    > > whatsoever; I'm an IT architect employed by one of the major
                    > > pharmaceutical companies...and I'm saddened by your response to my
                    > > request for help / advice.
                    > >
                    > > Sure, we have one in-house developer who is very competent in SVG
                    > > programming...to the extend that we adopted SVG back in 2002 for
                    > > delivering XML-based graphics on the web. At the time, and like
                    > many
                    > > others, we standardized on the ASV for rendering in IE.
                    > >
                    > > With 2008 fast approaching, and with support for ASV being dropped,
                    > I
                    > > have a responsibility to find alternative ways to render SVG in IE,
                    > so
                    > > that our existing SVG applications can continue running in a
                    > > supportable environment.
                    > >
                    > > I was hoping that this forum might suggest some options so that we
                    > may
                    > > continue to use SVG with IE, and I'd like to thank Veiko for his.
                    > > Based on your response, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't come here at
                    > all...
                    > >
                    > > Paul Wirdnam
                    > > UK
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > "Domenico Strazzullo" <nst@>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Veiko,
                    > > >
                    > > > Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts
                    > are
                    > > > probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
                    > > > dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please
                    > help!"
                    > > > in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent,
                    > etc.
                    > > > They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to
                    > be
                    > > > contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been
                    > exposed
                    > > > to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would
                    > like
                    > > > to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
                    > > > lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to
                    > undermine
                    > > > SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
                    > > > suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
                    > > > doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why?
                    > In
                    > > > this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators
                    > (Doug,
                    > > > how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take
                    > part
                    > > > of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so,
                    > can
                    > > > we please gain back the access to the list's information?
                    > > >
                    > > > Domenico
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com<svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>,
                    > veiko herne <veiko_h@>
                    > > > wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Hi Paul
                    > > > >
                    > > > > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly, maybe
                    > > > > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones? Those
                    > > > > are Java applets and should work with any Java enabled
                    > > > > browser.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Veiko
                    > > > > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
                    > > > >
                    > > > > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@> wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > > > > I work for a large multi-national corporation that
                    > > > > > has standardized on
                    > > > > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with
                    > > > > > native SVG
                    > > > > > support is not an option.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the
                    > > > > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
                    > > > > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the
                    > > > > > Renesis plug-in,
                    > > > > > but what other options do we have if we want to stay
                    > > > > > with SVG and IE?
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data
                    > > > > > islands...in case
                    > > > > > that makes any difference to available options.
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > Please help!
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > -----
                    > > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                    > > > > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<svg-developers-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > > -or-
                    > > > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
                    > > > > > and click "edit my membership"
                    > > > > > ----
                    > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<svg-developers-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > __________________________________________________________
                    > > > _____________
                    > > > > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with AutoCheck
                    > > > > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                    > > > > http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Doug Schepers
                    Whoah there, Turbo! You seem to be racing to some really strange reactions. Enough with the conspiracy theories and ad hominem attacks. Paul asked a pretty
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Whoah there, Turbo! You seem to be racing to some really strange
                      reactions. Enough with the conspiracy theories and ad hominem attacks.

                      Paul asked a pretty straightforward question. With Microsoft, Adobe,
                      and Sun have all stepping up their efforts in similar spaces to SVG, and
                      Adobe strategically backing down on their support for SVG, there's some
                      natural uncertainty among people using SVG commercially. I doubt
                      ranting will resolve their concerns, or add any credibility to SVG.

                      As to memberships, you let the moderators take care of that. Sheesh.

                      Regards-
                      -Doug

                      Domenico Strazzullo wrote:
                      > Veiko,
                      >
                      > Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts are
                      > probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
                      > dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please help!"
                      > in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent, etc.
                      > They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to be
                      > contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been exposed
                      > to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would like
                      > to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
                      > lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to undermine
                      > SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
                      > suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
                      > doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why? In
                      > this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators (Doug,
                      > how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take part
                      > of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so, can
                      > we please gain back the access to the list's information?
                    • Doug Schepers
                      H, Paul- I think Steven s got a pretty sane assessment here. In reality, Adobe haven t truly supported ASV for years. As I ve said before on this list,
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
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                        H, Paul-

                        I think Steven's got a pretty sane assessment here. In reality, Adobe
                        haven't truly "supported" ASV for years. As I've said before on this
                        list, Renesis is gearing up to be the active replacement for ASV, and
                        while it still has a way to go, it is making good progress.

                        Because you're using "inline SVG" (via data islands), your options are a
                        little limited if you want to stay in IE. None of the Java players will
                        do that. As Steven says, ASV isn't going away, so until Renesis works
                        for you (which bug reports would help), I think ASV is still a safe bet.

                        Stephen Quintero wrote:
                        > Hi All,
                        >
                        > First, while support for ASV will end as of 2008, I understand the existing
                        > plug-in will continue to be supplied by Adobe indefinitely. Also, the
                        > current stable release of ASV seems (to me) as good or better than the
                        > developing native support. So you may be in less of a crunch than you
                        > think. Unless you are pushing the limits of the SVG implementation in ASV.
                        >
                        > It looks as if the browser vector graphics market is up in the air. SVG or
                        > Flash or SilverLight or whatnext. What basket do you put your eggs in?
                        > Since you already have a mature application in SVG, you might wait to see
                        > how it all shakes out.
                        >
                        > I also would like to see Renesis mature. I tried it on my app, which runs
                        > happily under ASV and Firefox, but it was confused. Or maybe I am!

                        Regards-
                        -Doug
                      • Domenico Strazzullo
                        I said I hope this is only paranoia , and it turned out to be. I apologized with Paul in some way. It s easy for you to make comments after you see the
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
                        • 0 Attachment
                          I said "I hope this is only paranoia", and it turned out to be. I
                          apologized with Paul in some way. It's easy for you to make comments
                          after you see the direction of the wind.

                          > As to memberships, you let the moderators take care of that. Sheesh.

                          This is very cheap. But I don't think the members are interested in
                          knowing why so, sheesh yourself.


                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Doug Schepers <doug@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Whoah there, Turbo! You seem to be racing to some really strange
                          > reactions. Enough with the conspiracy theories and ad hominem
                          attacks.
                          >
                          > Paul asked a pretty straightforward question. With Microsoft,
                          Adobe,
                          > and Sun have all stepping up their efforts in similar spaces to
                          SVG, and
                          > Adobe strategically backing down on their support for SVG, there's
                          some
                          > natural uncertainty among people using SVG commercially. I doubt
                          > ranting will resolve their concerns, or add any credibility to SVG.
                          >
                          > As to memberships, you let the moderators take care of that.
                          Sheesh.
                          >
                          > Regards-
                          > -Doug
                          >
                          > Domenico Strazzullo wrote:
                          > > Veiko,
                          > >
                          > > Chances are that this Paul Wirdnam will not reply. These posts
                          are
                          > > probably the work of some marketing guys from Microsoft/others:
                          > > dramatic topic subject/question with self response, a "Please
                          help!"
                          > > in place of signature from somebody who seems quite competent,
                          etc.
                          > > They are tentatives of intoxication. I'll be more than happy to
                          be
                          > > contradicted by Paul Wirdnam' reply. This list has often been
                          exposed
                          > > to talent drainage but at this moment it seems that some would
                          like
                          > > to give it a fatal blow. Again, I hope this is only paranoia, but
                          > > lately there has been a recrudescence of posts that try to
                          undermine
                          > > SVG and there's no way that a member can check if the author of a
                          > > suspicious post is a genuine member since unfortunately he or she
                          > > doesn't have access anymore to the members' list. I wonder why?
                          In
                          > > this circumstance there is too much burden on the moderators
                          (Doug,
                          > > how many owners/moderators left?), while some members can take
                          part
                          > > of the load. We can't remember the names of all the members so,
                          can
                          > > we please gain back the access to the list's information?
                          >
                        • mark_finkle
                          Paul, Check out the possibility of using the Mozilla ActiveX control in IE to display SVG. The ActiveX control uses the full Mozilla/Firefox rendering engine,
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jun 8, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Paul,

                            Check out the possibility of using the Mozilla ActiveX control in IE
                            to display SVG. The ActiveX control uses the full Mozilla/Firefox
                            rendering engine, so it supports the same level of SVG as Firefox does.

                            The control is packaged as part of the Mozilla XUL Runner project and
                            can be downloaded from here:
                            http://releases.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/xulrunner/releases/1.8.1.3/contrib/win32/

                            Note, that currently, the control is not enabled to work
                            "out-of-the-box" with IE, but I have a small patch on my website that
                            enables it:
                            http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2006/12/xule-what-if/

                            More here:
                            http://starkravingfinkle.org/blog/2007/01/mozilla-activex-control/

                            In the Firefox3 timeframe, the ActiveX control will be enabled for use
                            in IE by default and, if registered, will automatically handle
                            displaying SVG resources in IE. Just click on an SVG link or navigate
                            to an SVG URL and the Mozilla control will take over rendering the
                            content.

                            XULRunner Alpha6 (end of June 07) should be the first version with the
                            IE/SVG support turned on (no patches needed).

                            If you decide to take a look, let me know how things go,

                            Mark Finkle

                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Wirdnam" <yahoo@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I work for a large multi-national corporation that has standardized on
                            > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to one with native SVG
                            > support is not an option.
                            >
                            > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from the Adobe SVG Viewer going
                            > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked at the Renesis plug-in,
                            > but what other options do we have if we want to stay with SVG and IE?
                            >
                            > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side XML data islands...in case
                            > that makes any difference to available options.
                            >
                            > Please help!
                            >
                          • veiko herne
                            Hi With TinyLine to web, you will define your website to use TinyLine applet when showing the SVG. The sample code is here:
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jun 9, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi

                              With TinyLine to web, you will define your website to
                              use TinyLine applet when showing the SVG. The sample
                              code is here:
                              <!-- Start of the TinyLine Applet declaration -->
                              <!-- Here is the TinyLine Applet goes:
                              code - the main class to run
                              archive - the archive that holds the
                              applet.
                              width and height - the area occupied by the
                              applet
                              svgfile - the name of the applet
                              parameter
                              svg/tman.svg - the value of the applet
                              parameter that says what an SVG file to load
                              -->
                              <applet code="com.tinyline.app.TinyLineApplet"
                              archive="tinyline4web.zip" width="546" height="728" >
                              <param name="svgfile" value="test29.svg" />
                              </applet>
                              <!-- End of the TinyLine Applet declaration -->

                              I found it most easyest way to deliver SVG content
                              over the web. On mobiles, it's will be more
                              complicated. My problem was, that most of the SVG
                              players didn't played my animation clips anyway. Even
                              TinyLine ones, but Andrew finally fixed the bug in
                              positioning and sizing calculations for me, so I'm
                              ready to go with his drivers.
                              My actual article about my experiences testing my
                              animations against different players:
                              http://veikoh.wordpress.com/2007/04/21/svg-animated-movies/

                              Veiko

                              --- thomas.deweese@... wrote:

                              > Hi Veiko,
                              >
                              > svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote on 06/08/2007
                              > 02:42:34 PM:
                              >
                              > > Many thaanks for the suggestion...I hadn't
                              > considered a Java
                              > > applet...however, because our SVG is generated on
                              > the client-side
                              > > using XML data islands and JavaScript, I'm going
                              > to assume that would
                              > > require quite a lot of re-work for our existing
                              > SVG-based applications.
                              >
                              > How do your SVG applications access the local
                              > XML? Are they
                              > local SVG files?
                              >
                              > > I guess what I'm looking / hoping for was a
                              > straight plugin
                              > > switch...from ASV to some other. But maybe there
                              > really isn't a
                              > > viable alternative.
                              >
                              > If you just need a container to run the SVG with
                              > JavaScript,
                              > Batik (also Java) might be considered. It wouldn't
                              > run in a
                              > Browser it would be a separate app (you actually
                              > could run
                              > Batik in a browser as an applet but it's a bit big
                              > for that).
                              >
                              > Batik is a bit stricter on what it accepts for
                              > SVG/EcmaScript
                              > but I think it implements just about everything ASV
                              > did.
                              >
                              > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, veiko herne
                              > <veiko_h@...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > Hi Paul
                              > > >
                              > > > As I didn't find Renesis yet working properly,
                              > maybe
                              > > > you should test Tinyline www.tinyline.com ones?
                              > Those
                              > > > are Java applets and should work with any Java
                              > enabled
                              > > > browser.
                              > > >
                              > > > Veiko
                              > > > http://veikoh.wordpress.com
                              > > >
                              > > > --- Paul Wirdnam <yahoo@...> wrote:
                              > > >
                              > > > > I work for a large multi-national corporation
                              > that
                              > > > > has standardized on
                              > > > > a IE-based desktop, so switching browers to
                              > one with
                              > > > > native SVG
                              > > > > support is not an option.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > But we also have to mitigate ourselves from
                              > the
                              > > > > Adobe SVG Viewer going
                              > > > > out of support from 1-Jan-2008. We've looked
                              > at the
                              > > > > Renesis plug-in,
                              > > > > but what other options do we have if we want
                              > to stay
                              > > > > with SVG and IE?
                              > > > >
                              > > > > BTW: we're generating SVG using client-side
                              > XML data
                              > > > > islands...in case
                              > > > > that makes any difference to available
                              > options.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > Please help!
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > > -----
                              > > > > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                              > > > > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > > -or-
                              > > > > visit
                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
                              > > > > and click "edit my membership"
                              > > > > ----
                              > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              > > > >
                              > > > > (Yahoo! ID required)
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > > >
                              > >
                              >
                              __________________________________________________________
                              > > > You snooze, you lose. Get messages ASAP with
                              > AutoCheck
                              > > > in the all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.
                              > > >
                              >
                              http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbeta/newmail_html.html
                              > > >
                              >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              > -----
                              > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                              > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                              > -or-
                              > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers
                              > and click "edit my membership"
                              > ----
                              > Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              > (Yahoo! ID required)
                              >
                              > mailto:svg-developers-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              >
                              >



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