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z-order

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  • jocphone@hotmail.com
    Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping elements is going
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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      Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
      using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
      elements is going to get tricky.
    • Steve White
      Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in front of a lower index value or behind a higher index value Yours Truly Steve White
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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        Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in front
        of a lower index value or behind a higher index value

        Yours Truly

        Steve White

        steve@...
        www.VirtualMechanics.com

        -----Original Message-----
        From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
        Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
        To: svg-developers@egroups.com
        Subject: [svg-developers] z-order


        Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
        using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
        elements is going to get tricky.
      • Jon Ferraiolo
        Steve, If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the z-index property is not part of SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might be
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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          Steve,
          If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the 'z-index' property is not part of
          SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might
          be put into a future version of SVG.

          With SVG 1.0, the document tree is rendered bottom-to-top based on the
          order of the elements in the document. If you want something to suddenly
          jump on top of something else, you usually have to change the order of the
          elements in the document tree.

          There are clever ways of bypassing this that work in some cases, primarily
          by making use of the <use> element. For example:

          <defs>
          <circle id="c1".../>
          </defs>
          <text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u1">activate u1</text>
          <text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u2">activate u2</text>
          <rect id="r1" .../>
          <use id="u1" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:visible"...>
          <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="visible"/>
          <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="hidden"/>
          </use>
          <rect id="r2" .../>
          <use id="u2" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:hidden"...>
          <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="hidden"/>
          <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="visible"/>
          </use>

          The idea above is that the circle appears between rectangles r1 and r2. If
          you click on the text string that says "activate u2", then the circle
          appears above rectangle r2.

          Jon

          At 09:09 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Steve White wrote:
          >Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in front
          >of a lower index value or behind a higher index value
          >
          >Yours Truly
          >
          >Steve White
          >
          >steve@...
          >www.VirtualMechanics.com
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
          >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
          >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
          >Subject: [svg-developers] z-order
          >
          >
          >Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
          >using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
          >elements is going to get tricky.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • dr. stefan goessner
          currently the only way to manipulate the front/back order of elements is to change the elements order in the DOM. have a look at my code snippet
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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            currently the only way to manipulate the front/back order of elements
            is to change the elements order in the DOM.
            have a look at my code snippet
            http://www.mecxpert.de/svg/swap.html

            may be it helps ..

            stefan goessner

            --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, jocphone@h... wrote:
            > Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an
            element
            > using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and
            dropping
            > elements is going to get tricky.
          • Steve White
            What was wrong with z-index? It worked fine. Why did it need to be changed? The example below is OK for a simple case but if you have hundreds of Objects that
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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              What was wrong with z-index? It worked fine. Why did it need to be changed?
              The example below is OK for a simple case but if you have hundreds of
              Objects that you would like to reorder how many combinations would you need
              to create 100**100 or something impossible like that?

              I thought SVG used CSS? Isn't Z-Index part of CSS?

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 12:35 PM
              To: svg-developers@egroups.com
              Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order


              Steve,
              If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the 'z-index' property is not part of
              SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might
              be put into a future version of SVG.

              With SVG 1.0, the document tree is rendered bottom-to-top based on the
              order of the elements in the document. If you want something to suddenly
              jump on top of something else, you usually have to change the order of the
              elements in the document tree.

              There are clever ways of bypassing this that work in some cases, primarily
              by making use of the <use> element. For example:

              <defs>
              <circle id="c1".../>
              </defs>
              <text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u1">activate u1</text>
              <text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u2">activate u2</text>
              <rect id="r1" .../>
              <use id="u1" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:visible"...>
              <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="visible"/>
              <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="hidden"/>
              </use>
              <rect id="r2" .../>
              <use id="u2" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:hidden"...>
              <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="hidden"/>
              <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="visible"/>
              </use>

              The idea above is that the circle appears between rectangles r1 and r2. If
              you click on the text string that says "activate u2", then the circle
              appears above rectangle r2.

              Jon

              At 09:09 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Steve White wrote:
              >Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in front
              >of a lower index value or behind a higher index value
              >
              >Yours Truly
              >
              >Steve White
              >
              >steve@...
              >www.VirtualMechanics.com
              >
              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
              >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
              >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
              >Subject: [svg-developers] z-order
              >
              >
              >Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
              >using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
              >elements is going to get tricky.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Kevin Lindsey
              Here are samples of a different approach to reordering elements that was posted earlier to this group: http://www.kevlindev.com/eGroups/reorder-groups.svg and
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                Here are samples of a different approach to reordering elements that
                was posted earlier to this group:

                http://www.kevlindev.com/eGroups/reorder-groups.svg

                and

                http://www.kevlindev.com/eGroups/reorder.svg

                Kevin
              • Joc
                I can see I am going to like it here. Thanks for all your helpful replies, I learn t a couple of other tips from your code as well ;) nice one Joc ... element
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                  I can see I am going to like it here.

                  Thanks for all your helpful replies, I learn't
                  a couple of other tips from your code as well ;)

                  nice one

                  Joc

                  --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, jocphone@h... wrote:
                  > Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an
                  element
                  > using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and
                  dropping
                  > elements is going to get tricky.
                • Robert Edwards
                  Rather than removing an element, then re-adding it to change the z-order, consider simply reordering the elements. An example of reordering the elements of a
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                    Rather than removing an element, then re-adding it to change the
                    z-order, consider simply reordering the elements. An example of
                    reordering the elements of a group is shown in the example SVG script
                    at
                    http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/orbits.html

                    One reason to consider reordering is that animation is much smoother
                    with low-performance browsers (such as Netscape)if this technique is
                    used.

                    Robert Edwards
                    The MapTools Company
                  • dr. stefan goessner
                    robert, kevin it seems to be a good thing to avoid the methods .. removeChild, appendChild, cloneNode, et al. .. whenever possible, since they allocate/free
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                      robert, kevin

                      it seems to be a good thing to avoid the methods ..
                      removeChild, appendChild, cloneNode, et al.
                      ..
                      whenever possible, since they allocate/free memory (via ECMAScript's
                      garbage collector). memory operations are also usually very time
                      consuming operations.

                      so i suspect, robert's solution is the most efficient ..
                      i also learnt, that
                      ..
                      parent.insertBefore(child1, child2);
                      ..
                      indeed works with elements still in the DOM. until now i used it
                      solely with newly created elements.

                      thanks robert, i will adobt this in my snippet ..

                      stefan goessner

                      ps.: eventually somebody of adobe's developer crew can comment our
                      memory/performance considerations ?

                      --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Robert Edwards" <EdwardsRG@E...>
                      wrote:
                      > Rather than removing an element, then re-adding it to change the
                      > z-order, consider simply reordering the elements. An example of
                      > reordering the elements of a group is shown in the example SVG
                      script
                      > at
                      > http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/orbits.html
                      >
                      > One reason to consider reordering is that animation is much
                      smoother
                      > with low-performance browsers (such as Netscape)if this technique
                      is
                      > used.
                      >
                      > Robert Edwards
                      > The MapTools Company
                    • Kevin Lindsey
                      Robert, Very cool. Thanks for the info. BTW, I really enjoyed your relaxed cubic splines (http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/spline.html). For those
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                        Robert,
                         
                        Very cool.  Thanks for the info.  BTW, I really enjoyed your relaxed cubic splines (http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/spline.html).  For those of you who work with Bezier curves a lot, I found this to be a more fluid way to manipulate a polybezier.  It feels more like you are sculpting the curve.  Very nice!
                         
                        Kevin
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 2:45 PM
                        Subject: [svg-developers] Re: z-order

                        Rather than removing an element, then re-adding it to change the
                        z-order, consider simply reordering the elements. An example of
                        reordering the elements of a group is shown in the example SVG script
                        at
                          http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/orbits.html

                        One reason to consider reordering is that animation is much smoother
                        with low-performance browsers (such as Netscape)if this technique is
                        used.

                          Robert Edwards
                            The MapTools Company


                      • Kevin Lindsey
                        Stefan, Thanks for the info. By any chance, do you know what style of garbage collector is used in ECMAScript? (Mark and Sweep, reference count, etc.). Now
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 27, 2000
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                          Stefan,
                           
                          Thanks for the info.  By any chance, do you know what style of garbage collector is used in ECMAScript? (Mark and Sweep, reference count, etc.).  Now you have me curious as to when the garbage collection would kick in.  I would suspect the memory from free objects would be reused which shouldn't effect performance too much.  I guess that's another area to test.
                           
                          Kevin
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:23 PM
                          Subject: [svg-developers] Re: z-order

                          robert, kevin

                          it seems to be a good thing to avoid the methods ..
                          removeChild, appendChild, cloneNode, et al.
                          ..
                          whenever possible, since they allocate/free memory (via ECMAScript's
                          garbage collector). memory operations are also usually very time
                          consuming operations.

                          so i suspect, robert's solution is the most efficient ..
                          i also learnt, that
                          ..
                          parent.insertBefore(child1, child2);
                          ..
                          indeed works with elements still in the DOM. until now i used it
                          solely with newly created elements.

                          thanks robert, i will adobt this in my snippet ..

                          stefan goessner

                          ps.: eventually somebody of adobe's developer crew can comment our
                          memory/performance considerations ?

                          --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "Robert Edwards" <EdwardsRG@E...>
                          wrote:
                          > Rather than removing an element, then re-adding it to change the
                          > z-order, consider simply reordering the elements. An example of
                          > reordering the elements of a group is shown in the example SVG
                          script
                          > at
                          >   http://home.earthlink.net/~edwardsrg/Adobe/orbits.html
                          >
                          > One reason to consider reordering is that animation is much
                          smoother
                          > with low-performance browsers (such as Netscape)if this technique
                          is
                          > used.
                          >
                          >   Robert Edwards
                          >     The MapTools Company


                        • Jon Ferraiolo
                          Steve, SVG uses parts of CSS, not all. For example, we don t use the absolute and relative positioning aspects of CSS since SVG has its own notion of geometry
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 28, 2000
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                            Steve,
                            SVG uses parts of CSS, not all. For example, we don't use the absolute and
                            relative positioning aspects of CSS since SVG has its own notion of
                            geometry and coordinate systems. Of the properties defines in the CSS2
                            spec, SVG ends up using about half.

                            One part of CSS that the SVG working group decided NOT to use was the
                            'z-index' property. We made that decision because we thought having a
                            'z-index' property was not required since it was possible to change
                            relative drawing order by rearranging the DOM. Based on recent feedback
                            from the user community, personally I think it would have been better is we
                            had a 'z-index' property in SVG 1.0. At this stage, however, it is too late
                            to add this property to SVG 1.0, so the best we can do is consider this
                            property for a future version of SVG, and share alternative approaches for
                            managing layers given the features that are in SVG 1.0.

                            Jon




                            At 01:37 PM 9/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
                            >What was wrong with z-index? It worked fine. Why did it need to be changed?
                            >The example below is OK for a simple case but if you have hundreds of
                            >Objects that you would like to reorder how many combinations would you need
                            >to create 100**100 or something impossible like that?
                            >
                            >I thought SVG used CSS? Isn't Z-Index part of CSS?
                            >
                            >-----Original Message-----
                            >From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
                            >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 12:35 PM
                            >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                            >Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order
                            >
                            >
                            >Steve,
                            >If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the 'z-index' property is not part of
                            >SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might
                            >be put into a future version of SVG.
                            >
                            >With SVG 1.0, the document tree is rendered bottom-to-top based on the
                            >order of the elements in the document. If you want something to suddenly
                            >jump on top of something else, you usually have to change the order of the
                            >elements in the document tree.
                            >
                            >There are clever ways of bypassing this that work in some cases, primarily
                            >by making use of the <use> element. For example:
                            >
                            ><defs>
                            > <circle id="c1".../>
                            ></defs>
                            ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u1">activate u1</text>
                            ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u2">activate u2</text>
                            ><rect id="r1" .../>
                            ><use id="u1" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:visible"...>
                            > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="visible"/>
                            > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="hidden"/>
                            ></use>
                            ><rect id="r2" .../>
                            ><use id="u2" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:hidden"...>
                            > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="hidden"/>
                            > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="visible"/>
                            ></use>
                            >
                            >The idea above is that the circle appears between rectangles r1 and r2. If
                            >you click on the text string that says "activate u2", then the circle
                            >appears above rectangle r2.
                            >
                            >Jon
                            >
                            >At 09:09 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Steve White wrote:
                            > >Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in front
                            > >of a lower index value or behind a higher index value
                            > >
                            > >Yours Truly
                            > >
                            > >Steve White
                            > >
                            > >steve@...
                            > >www.VirtualMechanics.com
                            > >
                            > >-----Original Message-----
                            > >From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
                            > >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
                            > >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                            > >Subject: [svg-developers] z-order
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
                            > >using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
                            > >elements is going to get tricky.
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                          • Steve White
                            Fair enough. Does that mean I can send you my wish list? -Steve ... From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@adobe.com] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:43 PM
                            Message 13 of 18 , Sep 28, 2000
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                              Fair enough. Does that mean I can send you my wish list?

                              -Steve

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
                              Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:43 PM
                              To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order


                              Steve,
                              SVG uses parts of CSS, not all. For example, we don't use the absolute and
                              relative positioning aspects of CSS since SVG has its own notion of
                              geometry and coordinate systems. Of the properties defines in the CSS2
                              spec, SVG ends up using about half.

                              One part of CSS that the SVG working group decided NOT to use was the
                              'z-index' property. We made that decision because we thought having a
                              'z-index' property was not required since it was possible to change
                              relative drawing order by rearranging the DOM. Based on recent feedback
                              from the user community, personally I think it would have been better is we
                              had a 'z-index' property in SVG 1.0. At this stage, however, it is too late
                              to add this property to SVG 1.0, so the best we can do is consider this
                              property for a future version of SVG, and share alternative approaches for
                              managing layers given the features that are in SVG 1.0.

                              Jon




                              At 01:37 PM 9/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
                              >What was wrong with z-index? It worked fine. Why did it need to be changed?
                              >The example below is OK for a simple case but if you have hundreds of
                              >Objects that you would like to reorder how many combinations would you need
                              >to create 100**100 or something impossible like that?
                              >
                              >I thought SVG used CSS? Isn't Z-Index part of CSS?
                              >
                              >-----Original Message-----
                              >From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
                              >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 12:35 PM
                              >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                              >Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order
                              >
                              >
                              >Steve,
                              >If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the 'z-index' property is not part of
                              >SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might
                              >be put into a future version of SVG.
                              >
                              >With SVG 1.0, the document tree is rendered bottom-to-top based on the
                              >order of the elements in the document. If you want something to suddenly
                              >jump on top of something else, you usually have to change the order of the
                              >elements in the document tree.
                              >
                              >There are clever ways of bypassing this that work in some cases, primarily
                              >by making use of the <use> element. For example:
                              >
                              ><defs>
                              > <circle id="c1".../>
                              ></defs>
                              ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u1">activate u1</text>
                              ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u2">activate u2</text>
                              ><rect id="r1" .../>
                              ><use id="u1" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:visible"...>
                              > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click"
                              to="visible"/>
                              > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="hidden"/>
                              ></use>
                              ><rect id="r2" .../>
                              ><use id="u2" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:hidden"...>
                              > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="hidden"/>
                              > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click"
                              to="visible"/>
                              ></use>
                              >
                              >The idea above is that the circle appears between rectangles r1 and r2. If
                              >you click on the text string that says "activate u2", then the circle
                              >appears above rectangle r2.
                              >
                              >Jon
                              >
                              >At 09:09 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Steve White wrote:
                              > >Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in
                              front
                              > >of a lower index value or behind a higher index value
                              > >
                              > >Yours Truly
                              > >
                              > >Steve White
                              > >
                              > >steve@...
                              > >www.VirtualMechanics.com
                              > >
                              > >-----Original Message-----
                              > >From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
                              > >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
                              > >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                              > >Subject: [svg-developers] z-order
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
                              > >using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
                              > >elements is going to get tricky.
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                            • Peter Sorotokin
                              ... ECMAScript s ... removeChild and appendChild by themselves do not involve memory allocation/deallocation. For instance you can remove a node, hold it for
                              Message 14 of 18 , Sep 28, 2000
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                                --- In svg-developers@egroups.com, "dr. stefan goessner"
                                <stefan.goessner@h...> wrote:
                                > robert, kevin
                                >
                                > it seems to be a good thing to avoid the methods ..
                                > removeChild, appendChild, cloneNode, et al.
                                > ..
                                > whenever possible, since they allocate/free memory (via
                                ECMAScript's
                                > garbage collector). memory operations are also usually very time
                                > consuming operations.
                                >
                                > so i suspect, robert's solution is the most efficient ..
                                > i also learnt, that
                                > ..
                                > parent.insertBefore(child1, child2);
                                > ..
                                > indeed works with elements still in the DOM. until now i used it
                                > solely with newly created elements.
                                >
                                > thanks robert, i will adobt this in my snippet ..
                                >
                                > stefan goessner
                                >
                                > ps.: eventually somebody of adobe's developer crew can comment our
                                > memory/performance considerations ?

                                removeChild and appendChild by themselves do not involve memory
                                allocation/deallocation. For instance you can remove a node, hold
                                it for some time and then stick it back in the tree at some point.
                                Removing a node and "forgetting" about it, creating or cloning
                                a node, on the other hand, are much more expensive operations
                                because they involve memory allocation/deallocation AND node
                                initialization/destruction. We are working to make it cheaper,
                                but avoiding it when you can is always better.

                                BTW, rearranging nodes manually, although much less convenient
                                then using z-order, also might draw faster (at least in some
                                cases) then using z-order, if SVG had it.

                                Peter
                              • Jon Ferraiolo
                                Steve, Sure. Please send in your wish list. I suggest that anyone with a wish list send it to this email address so that others can see and respond. Jon
                                Message 15 of 18 , Sep 28, 2000
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                                  Steve,
                                  Sure. Please send in your wish list.

                                  I suggest that anyone with a wish list send it to this email address so
                                  that others can see and respond.

                                  Jon

                                  At 01:44 PM 9/28/00 -0400, you wrote:
                                  >Fair enough. Does that mean I can send you my wish list?
                                  >
                                  >-Steve
                                  >
                                  >-----Original Message-----
                                  >From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
                                  >Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:43 PM
                                  >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                                  >Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >Steve,
                                  >SVG uses parts of CSS, not all. For example, we don't use the absolute and
                                  >relative positioning aspects of CSS since SVG has its own notion of
                                  >geometry and coordinate systems. Of the properties defines in the CSS2
                                  >spec, SVG ends up using about half.
                                  >
                                  >One part of CSS that the SVG working group decided NOT to use was the
                                  >'z-index' property. We made that decision because we thought having a
                                  >'z-index' property was not required since it was possible to change
                                  >relative drawing order by rearranging the DOM. Based on recent feedback
                                  >from the user community, personally I think it would have been better is we
                                  >had a 'z-index' property in SVG 1.0. At this stage, however, it is too late
                                  >to add this property to SVG 1.0, so the best we can do is consider this
                                  >property for a future version of SVG, and share alternative approaches for
                                  >managing layers given the features that are in SVG 1.0.
                                  >
                                  >Jon
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >At 01:37 PM 9/27/00 -0400, you wrote:
                                  > >What was wrong with z-index? It worked fine. Why did it need to be changed?
                                  > >The example below is OK for a simple case but if you have hundreds of
                                  > >Objects that you would like to reorder how many combinations would you need
                                  > >to create 100**100 or something impossible like that?
                                  > >
                                  > >I thought SVG used CSS? Isn't Z-Index part of CSS?
                                  > >
                                  > >-----Original Message-----
                                  > >From: Jon Ferraiolo [mailto:jferraio@...]
                                  > >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 12:35 PM
                                  > >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                                  > >Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >Steve,
                                  > >If you are talking about SVG, sorry, the 'z-index' property is not part of
                                  > >SVG 1.0. This property has already been submitted as something that might
                                  > >be put into a future version of SVG.
                                  > >
                                  > >With SVG 1.0, the document tree is rendered bottom-to-top based on the
                                  > >order of the elements in the document. If you want something to suddenly
                                  > >jump on top of something else, you usually have to change the order of the
                                  > >elements in the document tree.
                                  > >
                                  > >There are clever ways of bypassing this that work in some cases, primarily
                                  > >by making use of the <use> element. For example:
                                  > >
                                  > ><defs>
                                  > > <circle id="c1".../>
                                  > ></defs>
                                  > ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u1">activate u1</text>
                                  > ><text x="..." y="..." id="activate_u2">activate u2</text>
                                  > ><rect id="r1" .../>
                                  > ><use id="u1" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:visible"...>
                                  > > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click"
                                  >to="visible"/>
                                  > > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click" to="hidden"/>
                                  > ></use>
                                  > ><rect id="r2" .../>
                                  > ><use id="u2" xlink:href="#c1" style="visibility:hidden"...>
                                  > > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u1.click" to="hidden"/>
                                  > > <set attributeName="visibility" begin="activate_u2.click"
                                  >to="visible"/>
                                  > ></use>
                                  > >
                                  > >The idea above is that the circle appears between rectangles r1 and r2. If
                                  > >you click on the text string that says "activate u2", then the circle
                                  > >appears above rectangle r2.
                                  > >
                                  > >Jon
                                  > >
                                  > >At 09:09 AM 9/27/00 -0400, Steve White wrote:
                                  > > >Use the CSS style: z-index:2; You can change the index to move it in
                                  >front
                                  > > >of a lower index value or behind a higher index value
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Yours Truly
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Steve White
                                  > > >
                                  > > >steve@...
                                  > > >www.VirtualMechanics.com
                                  > > >
                                  > > >-----Original Message-----
                                  > > >From: jocphone@... [mailto:jocphone@...]
                                  > > >Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:32 AM
                                  > > >To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                                  > > >Subject: [svg-developers] z-order
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >Howdy, is it possible to change the back-to-front order of an element
                                  > > >using a CSS or XML attribute from script? Otherwise drag and dropping
                                  > > >elements is going to get tricky.
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Tobias Reif
                                  Jon, ... properties ... does SVG add CSS-like properties, that are not in CSS2? Which are those? Tobi __________________________________________________ Do You
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Sep 29, 2000
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                                    Jon,

                                    > SVG uses parts of CSS, not all.[...] Of the >
                                    properties
                                    > defined in the CSS2
                                    > spec, SVG ends up using about half.

                                    does SVG add CSS-like properties, that are not in
                                    CSS2?
                                    Which are those?

                                    Tobi

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                                  • Watson, Christopher
                                    A list of those CSS2 properties shared by SVG, and those in SVG that are not defined in CSS2 can be read at:
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Sep 29, 2000
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                                      A list of those CSS2 properties shared by SVG, and those in SVG that are not
                                      defined in CSS2 can be read at:

                                      http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/CR-SVG-20000802/styling.html#PropertiesFromCSS2

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                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Tobias Reif [mailto:tobiasreif@...]
                                      Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:22 AM
                                      To: svg-developers@egroups.com
                                      Subject: RE: [svg-developers] z-order

                                      Jon,

                                      > SVG uses parts of CSS, not all.[...] Of the >
                                      properties
                                      > defined in the CSS2
                                      > spec, SVG ends up using about half.

                                      does SVG add CSS-like properties, that are not in
                                      CSS2?
                                      Which are those?

                                      Tobi

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                                    • Jon Ferraiolo
                                      Check out section 6.1 of the SVG spec (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/styling.html#SVGStylingProperties). This section lists the properties from CSS2 that SVG uses
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Sep 29, 2000
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                                        Check out section 6.1 of the SVG spec
                                        (http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG/styling.html#SVGStylingProperties). This section
                                        lists the properties from CSS2 that SVG uses and also lists the additional
                                        properties which SVG has defined.

                                        Note that there is a good chance that many/all of SVG's new properties will
                                        get incorporated into other W3C specifications somewhere down the road. If
                                        you go through the list, you can see that most of these new properties
                                        could be applied to text-oriented specifications such as CSS and XSL-FO,
                                        and these groups have shown interest in many of these properties. For
                                        example, you can see how the 'fill', 'stroke' and 'filter' properties could
                                        be applied to text-oriented grammars such as HTML.

                                        Jon

                                        At 01:22 AM 9/29/00 -0700, Tobias Reif wrote:
                                        >Jon,
                                        >
                                        > > SVG uses parts of CSS, not all.[...] Of the >
                                        >properties
                                        > > defined in the CSS2
                                        > > spec, SVG ends up using about half.
                                        >
                                        >does SVG add CSS-like properties, that are not in
                                        >CSS2?
                                        >Which are those?
                                        >
                                        >Tobi
                                        >
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                                        >Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
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                                        >
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