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Re: [svg-developers] getElementFromPoint

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  • thomas.deweese@kodak.com
    Hi Holger, ... referenceElement ); ... referenceElement ); ... rect ); ... ); ... Actually they are all implemented in the SVN version of Batik. ;) ... Quite
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
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      Hi Holger,

      svg-developers@yahoogroups.com wrote on 08/01/2006 11:07:03 AM:

      >> I would like to get an element from a x,y point
      >> (like in HTML)[..] Does anyone know such a function ?

      > there are four methods of the SVGSVGElement (
      > http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#InterfaceSVGSVGElement ) which
      > you could use:
      >
      > NodeList getIntersectionList ( in SVGRect rect, in SVGElement
      referenceElement );
      > NodeList getEnclosureList ( in SVGRect rect, in SVGElement
      referenceElement );
      > boolean checkIntersection ( in SVGElement element, in SVGRect
      rect );
      > boolean checkEnclosure ( in SVGElement element, in SVGRect rect
      );
      >
      > but unfortunatly they are not implemented anywhere.

      Actually they are all implemented in the SVN version of Batik. ;)

      > I doubt that you will be able to write a function to get a points color
      > either, as there are no pixels in SVG, and therefor you dont have access

      > to pixel values.

      Quite correct. The WG will likely specify something along these
      lines but to be honest I think it will be problematic (too many cases
      where it won't give/do what people want or else be nigh impossible to
      implement, I think).
    • Phi Tran
      ... I like to share with you on my point of view (as an SVG render developer). The Scenario is this: You have SVG draw you a Black line with 0.5 opacity
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
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        On 8/1/06, thomas.deweese@... <thomas.deweese@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Holger,
        >
        > svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com> wrote on
        > 08/01/2006 11:07:03 AM:
        >
        >
        > >> I would like to get an element from a x,y point
        > >> (like in HTML)[..] Does anyone know such a function ?
        >
        >
        > > there are four methods of the SVGSVGElement (
        > > http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG11/struct.html#InterfaceSVGSVGElement ) which
        > > you could use:
        > >
        > > NodeList getIntersectionList ( in SVGRect rect, in SVGElement
        > referenceElement );
        > > NodeList getEnclosureList ( in SVGRect rect, in SVGElement
        > referenceElement );
        > > boolean checkIntersection ( in SVGElement element, in SVGRect
        > rect );
        > > boolean checkEnclosure ( in SVGElement element, in SVGRect rect
        > );
        > >
        > > but unfortunatly they are not implemented anywhere.
        >
        > Actually they are all implemented in the SVN version of Batik. ;)
        >
        >
        > > I doubt that you will be able to write a function to get a points color
        > > either, as there are no pixels in SVG, and therefor you dont have access
        >
        >
        > > to pixel values.
        >
        > Quite correct. The WG will likely specify something along these
        > lines but to be honest I think it will be problematic (too many cases
        > where it won't give/do what people want or else be nigh impossible to
        > implement, I think).
        >
        >
        >
        I like to share with you on my point of view (as an SVG render developer).
        The Scenario is this: You have SVG draw you a Black line with 0.5 opacity
        (stroke-opacity="0.5").
        As in ZipProtocol I can give you the color that SVG generate which is
        0x80000000. where the 80 stand for 50% opacity and the rest 000000 is black
        color.
        Now we go to SVG developer point of view.

        - If that line is on the RED background the actual color is Dark
        RED.(RGB=0x800000)
        or
        - If the Background is WHITE then the actual color is GRAY (RGB=0x808080).
        Using this scheme I can have that black line in any color I want with RED
        range form 0x80 ->0, GREEN from 0x80->0 and BLUE from 0x80->0.

        Remember that the background can be anything even outside of the browser
        control such as :system background color, button color or even an image,
        flash image etc

        They are not under the control of the SVG render. In my case; I can only
        give developer the the Color and the opacity of what the SVG render
        generates But the true color can be where on the spectrum I describe above
        (Depend on the background.)

        At this time it is impossible for the developer to know what pixel color at
        a given point. Hoppefully in the future. If that capacity is there then it
        is the work of the browsers however I don't know how they can do it in the
        situation that the image that plug-in produced such as flash?.


        Hope this help.


        --
        Phi - Tran
        Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
        plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
        HTTP://oneplusplus.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Guy Morton
        I m hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on this one. We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little Adobe-provided
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
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          I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
          this one.

          We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
          Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
          load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data not
          available".

          We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
          plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
          loads, so we figure it's not that.

          The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
          usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
          WinXP.

          The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
          application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
          message.

          Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?

          Guy
        • Jonathan Chetwynd
          Guy, are you sure the links aren t local? eg the adobe one clearly isn t cheers Jonathan Chetwynd On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote: I m hoping someone
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 2, 2006
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            Guy,

            are you sure the links aren't local?
            eg the adobe one clearly isn't

            cheers

            Jonathan Chetwynd



            On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote:

            I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
            this one.

            We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
            Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
            load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data not
            available".

            We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
            plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
            loads, so we figure it's not that.

            The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
            usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
            WinXP.

            The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
            application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
            message.

            Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?

            Guy
          • Guy Morton
            Hi Jonathan. No, the SVG is definitely not local for her. I ve received new screenshots from the user which look more like the partial loading i saw in v2 of
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 2, 2006
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              Hi Jonathan. No, the SVG is definitely not local for her.

              I've received new screenshots from the user which look more like the
              partial loading i saw in v2 of ASV, so am reasonably convinced that's
              the cause, but if anyone else has ideas please pass them along!

              regards Guy


              On 03/08/2006, at 2:18 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:

              > Guy,
              >
              > are you sure the links aren't local?
              > eg the adobe one clearly isn't
              >
              > cheers
              >
              > Jonathan Chetwynd
              >
              >
              >
              > On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote:
              >
              > I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
              > this one.
              >
              > We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
              > Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
              > load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data not
              > available".
              >
              > We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
              > plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
              > loads, so we figure it's not that.
              >
              > The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
              > usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
              > WinXP.
              >
              > The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
              > application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
              > message.
              >
              > Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?
              >
              > Guy
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > -----
              > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
              > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > -or-
              > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
              > my membership"
              > ----
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Phi Tran
              ... Please don t get me on this. But on me, it had happened similar to this. - I strongly suspect that there s too many elements in that DOM. I don t know
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 2, 2006
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                On 8/2/06, Guy Morton <guy@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Jonathan. No, the SVG is definitely not local for her.
                >
                > I've received new screenshots from the user which look more like the
                > partial loading i saw in v2 of ASV, so am reasonably convinced that's
                > the cause, but if anyone else has ideas please pass them along!
                >
                > regards Guy
                >




                On 03/08/2006, at 2:18 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:
                >
                > > Guy,
                > >
                > > are you sure the links aren't local?
                > > eg the adobe one clearly isn't
                > >
                > > cheers
                > >
                > > Jonathan Chetwynd
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote:
                > >
                > > I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
                > > this one.
                > >
                > > We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
                > > Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
                > > load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data not
                > > available".
                > >
                > > We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
                > > plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
                > > loads, so we figure it's not that.
                > >
                > > The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
                > > usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
                > > WinXP.
                > >
                > > The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
                > > application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
                > > message.
                > >
                > > Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?
                > >
                > > Guy
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > -----
                > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                > > -or-
                > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                > > my membership"
                > > ----
                > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                Please don't get me on this. But on me, it had happened similar to this.
                - I strongly suspect that there's too many "elements" in that DOM. I don't
                know how large is your SVG? + your HTML. For Large SVG + other elements of
                the DOM will cause the client behave differently from system to system-
                Depend on how much memory and how many process that system is running. I
                has happened to me before.

                Loading partial seem to be the signature for that.

                Hope this help.

                Phi


                --
                Phi - Tran
                Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
                plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
                HTTP://oneplusplus.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Gabriel TRAN
                ... It works, great. And surprisingly, I didn t have much to change to make it work on Firefox. This yahoo group seems a great help, I m glad I entered it !
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 3, 2006
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                  >AddType image/svg+xml .svg
                  >AddType image/svg+xml .svgz
                  >AddEncoding gzip .svgz

                  >into a file and rename it to .htaccess and upload this file to your webspaces root directory.
                  >that should do the trick.

                  It works, great. And surprisingly, I didn't have much to change to make it work on Firefox.
                  This yahoo group seems a great help, I'm glad I entered it ! Thank you guys



                  ----- Message d'origine ----
                  De : Holger Will <holger@...>
                  À : svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                  Envoyé le : Mardi, 1 Août 2006, 6h12mn 47s
                  Objet : Re: Re : [svg-developers] getElementFromPoint

                  >

                  /"I will let the list know when I have something functional."

                  /great, please do so , i'm looking forward to see your work.

                  /"By the way, I have a domain handled by 1&1, but the server is not
                  configured the right way, and they won't change it. My SVG is not
                  readable from Firefox : / (I have to use Internet Explorer...) . Any idea
                  to solve this ?"/

                  if its an Apache server, its simple, just put the following lines

                  AddType image/svg+xml .svg
                  AddType image/svg+xml .svgz
                  AddEncoding gzip .svgz

                  into a file and rename it to .htaccess and upload this file to your webspaces root directory.
                  that should do the trick.
                  see also: http://jwatt. org/svg/authorin g/#server- configuration and http://wiki. svg.org/Server_ Configuration: Apache

                  ** <http://de.wikipedia .org/wiki/ Htaccess>/"Any news on Firefox next
                  versions ?"
                  /
                  the next version of firefox will be Firfox 2.0 there is allready a
                  public beta you can download here:
                  http://developer. mozilla.org/ devnews/index. php/2006/ 07/12/firefox- 2-beta-1- milestone- released/
                  if you find any bugs , there is still the chance to get them fixed for
                  the 2.0 release. there will not be many new features though, but a lot
                  of bug fixes.
                  significant new features are support for textpath and support for dom
                  functions for handling text (like getComputedTextLeng th() ...).
                  the real work is being done on the 3.0 version ( filters , masks , maybe
                  animation , general speed up, reduced memory consumption ... ) you can
                  get the latest alpha version (codename minefield, and it really is a
                  minefield, its not quite stable yet ;-) here:
                  http://www.mozilla. org/developer/ #builds
                  the status of the 3.0 version can be checked here:
                  http://www.mozilla. org/projects/ svg/status. html

                  cheers
                  Holger

                  --
                  if this information was useful, please try to help someone else !
                  My Private Homepage: http://www.treebuil der.de
                  My Companys Website: http://www.klimapar tner-berlin. de




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Guy Morton
                  Hi Phi I don t think that s it. Our SVG is about 80k, then there s about another 80k of external scripts and then 10k or so of html. It runs fine on a 500MHz
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 3, 2006
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                    Hi Phi

                    I don't think that's it. Our SVG is about 80k, then there's about
                    another 80k of external scripts and then 10k or so of html. It runs
                    fine on a 500MHz P3 win 98 box with 32Mb of RAM. The user in question
                    has a more modern and faster PC than that.

                    We're now pretty sure the symptoms we're seeing are down to the user
                    trying to load it up in ASV v2.0. If we find out different I'll let
                    the list know.

                    On this, I find it interesting that few of the SVG detection routines
                    I've seen (and copied from :-) have included detection of the ASV
                    version. We've now added that to ours, because of this problem.

                    I'm surprised every SVG developer isn't doing the same, especially
                    when I was told that ASV 2.0 was apparently bundled with Acrobat
                    reader 5.0, and so could be installed on lots of PCs.

                    How do people know their SVG isn't silently failing to work, with the
                    end user believing they are SVG capable while actually seeing your
                    content displayed in the ASV2.0 plugin?

                    Guy


                    On 03/08/2006, at 2:08 PM, Phi Tran wrote:

                    > On 8/2/06, Guy Morton <guy@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Hi Jonathan. No, the SVG is definitely not local for her.
                    >>
                    >> I've received new screenshots from the user which look more like the
                    >> partial loading i saw in v2 of ASV, so am reasonably convinced that's
                    >> the cause, but if anyone else has ideas please pass them along!
                    >>
                    >> regards Guy
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > On 03/08/2006, at 2:18 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> Guy,
                    >>>
                    >>> are you sure the links aren't local?
                    >>> eg the adobe one clearly isn't
                    >>>
                    >>> cheers
                    >>>
                    >>> Jonathan Chetwynd
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote:
                    >>>
                    >>> I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
                    >>> this one.
                    >>>
                    >>> We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
                    >>> Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
                    >>> load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data
                    >>> not
                    >>> available".
                    >>>
                    >>> We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
                    >>> plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
                    >>> loads, so we figure it's not that.
                    >>>
                    >>> The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
                    >>> usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
                    >>> WinXP.
                    >>>
                    >>> The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
                    >>> application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
                    >>> message.
                    >>>
                    >>> Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?
                    >>>
                    >>> Guy
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>> -----
                    >>> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                    >>> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                    >>> -or-
                    >>> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                    >>> my membership"
                    >>> ----
                    >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>>
                    >>
                    >>
                    >>
                    > Please don't get me on this. But on me, it had happened similar to
                    > this.
                    > - I strongly suspect that there's too many "elements" in that DOM.
                    > I don't
                    > know how large is your SVG? + your HTML. For Large SVG + other
                    > elements of
                    > the DOM will cause the client behave differently from system to
                    > system-
                    > Depend on how much memory and how many process that system is
                    > running. I
                    > has happened to me before.
                    >
                    > Loading partial seem to be the signature for that.
                    >
                    > Hope this help.
                    >
                    > Phi
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Phi - Tran
                    > Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
                    > plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
                    > HTTP://oneplusplus.com
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----
                    > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                    > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > -or-
                    > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                    > my membership"
                    > ----
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Phi Tran
                    Hi Guy. Just to throw out some thing that has happen on mine. I have 256K Windows XP. And the ceiling is about 5500 element for the whole system to then the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 3, 2006
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                      Hi Guy.

                      Just to throw out some thing that has happen on mine.

                      I have 256K Windows XP. And the ceiling is about 5500 element for the whole
                      system to then the IE will start to mess me up by partial load some of the
                      images.

                      I have actual created a simple HTML page each time a user click a button the
                      I use Javascript to create 1000 elements (div). I hope this is not on your
                      case. (if you remember the challenge Francis post on this list- -Last
                      december- I have to write a utility to reduce the number of totoal element
                      from 7000 to 3000 element in order to make it works). Sorry if it does not
                      help you much.

                      Phi.



                      On 8/3/06, Guy Morton <guy@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Phi
                      >
                      > I don't think that's it. Our SVG is about 80k, then there's about
                      > another 80k of external scripts and then 10k or so of html. It runs
                      > fine on a 500MHz P3 win 98 box with 32Mb of RAM. The user in question
                      > has a more modern and faster PC than that.
                      >
                      > We're now pretty sure the symptoms we're seeing are down to the user
                      > trying to load it up in ASV v2.0. If we find out different I'll let
                      > the list know.
                      >
                      > On this, I find it interesting that few of the SVG detection routines
                      > I've seen (and copied from :-) have included detection of the ASV
                      > version. We've now added that to ours, because of this problem.
                      >
                      > I'm surprised every SVG developer isn't doing the same, especially
                      > when I was told that ASV 2.0 was apparently bundled with Acrobat
                      > reader 5.0, and so could be installed on lots of PCs.
                      >
                      > How do people know their SVG isn't silently failing to work, with the
                      > end user believing they are SVG capable while actually seeing your
                      > content displayed in the ASV2.0 plugin?
                      >
                      > Guy
                      >
                      > On 03/08/2006, at 2:08 PM, Phi Tran wrote:
                      >
                      > > On 8/2/06, Guy Morton <guy@... <guy%40alchemy.com.au>> wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> Hi Jonathan. No, the SVG is definitely not local for her.
                      > >>
                      > >> I've received new screenshots from the user which look more like the
                      > >> partial loading i saw in v2 of ASV, so am reasonably convinced that's
                      > >> the cause, but if anyone else has ideas please pass them along!
                      > >>
                      > >> regards Guy
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On 03/08/2006, at 2:18 AM, Jonathan Chetwynd wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>> Guy,
                      > >>>
                      > >>> are you sure the links aren't local?
                      > >>> eg the adobe one clearly isn't
                      > >>>
                      > >>> cheers
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Jonathan Chetwynd
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> On 2 Aug 2006, at 07:51, Guy Morton wrote:
                      > >>>
                      > >>> I'm hoping someone more experienced than I can chuck us a clue on
                      > >>> this one.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> We have a user of our app that claims that they can see the little
                      > >>> Adobe-provided "Spinning balls" SVG movie but that when they go to
                      > >>> load our app all they see is a message in plain text saying "Data
                      > >>> not
                      > >>> available".
                      > >>>
                      > >>> We thought this might be due to them having an older version of the
                      > >>> plugin, but we tried our app in v2 of the plugin and it partially
                      > >>> loads, so we figure it's not that.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The user's browsers passes our detection routine, which uses the
                      > >>> usual test-creation of an activeX object. The user is using IE 6 and
                      > >>> WinXP.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> The text string "Data not available" does not appear in our
                      > >>> application anywhere, so we are pretty sure we're not emitting that
                      > >>> message.
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Anyone got any ideas or suggestions?
                      > >>>
                      > >>> Guy
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>> -----
                      > >>> To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                      > >>> unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com><unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > >>> -or-
                      > >>> visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                      > >>> my membership"
                      > >>> ----
                      > >>> Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > >>
                      > > Please don't get me on this. But on me, it had happened similar to
                      > > this.
                      > > - I strongly suspect that there's too many "elements" in that DOM.
                      > > I don't
                      > > know how large is your SVG? + your HTML. For Large SVG + other
                      > > elements of
                      > > the DOM will cause the client behave differently from system to
                      > > system-
                      > > Depend on how much memory and how many process that system is
                      > > running. I
                      > > has happened to me before.
                      > >
                      > > Loading partial seem to be the signature for that.
                      > >
                      > > Hope this help.
                      > >
                      > > Phi
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --
                      > > Phi - Tran
                      > > Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
                      > > plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
                      > > HTTP://oneplusplus.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----
                      > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                      > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > > -or-
                      > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                      > > my membership"
                      > > ----
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >



                      --
                      Phi - Tran
                      Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
                      plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
                      HTTP://oneplusplus.com


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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