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Re: Adobe SVG Licensing

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  • Andreas Neumann
    I personally wouldn t build anything commercial around the Adobe SVG viewer, currently. Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible sign
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 28, 2006
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      I personally wouldn't build anything commercial around the Adobe SVG viewer, currently.

      Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible sign that they will
      release a new version.

      Other options are:

      * Batik (Java)
      * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
      * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
      * eSVG (commercial)
      * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla), don't know if one can
      embed them

      Andreas

      --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "pingvinh" <pingvinh@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I'm planning to write a Commercial product incorporating the Adobe SVG
      > 3.0.3 Plug-in. It a 'specialised' SVG Editor incorporating a Web
      > Browser component with an SVG page within a .NET2.0 Application. I
      > can't find enough information in the license agreement about this
      > specifically. If anybody on this group has any experience on this
      > matter, can you please share them?
      >
      > Regards,
      > PH.
      >
    • Phi Tran
      I like to add some notes on these recommendation. The first Four are for application . The native support browser are Web base. Also there is ZipProtocol. For
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 28, 2006
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        I like to add some notes on these recommendation.

        The first Four are for application .

        The native support browser are Web base.

        Also there is ZipProtocol. For both: application and web base:
        For Linux you can use as Sharable Sbject (so) or as Custom protocol (Zip
        protocol) on FireFox.
        For Windows you can use it as WIndow's DLL or Webase on both Internet
        Explorer and FireFox as Zip protocol.

        Cheers

        Phi.


        On 7/28/06, Andreas Neumann <neumann@...> wrote:
        >
        > I personally wouldn't build anything commercial around the Adobe SVG
        > viewer, currently.
        >
        > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible sign that
        > they will
        > release a new version.
        >
        > Other options are:
        >
        > * Batik (Java)
        > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
        > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
        > * eSVG (commercial)
        > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla), don't
        > know if one can
        > embed them
        >
        > Andreas
        >
        >
        > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <svg-developers%40yahoogroups.com>,
        > "pingvinh" <pingvinh@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > Hi,
        > >
        > > I'm planning to write a Commercial product incorporating the Adobe SVG
        > > 3.0.3 Plug-in. It a 'specialised' SVG Editor incorporating a Web
        > > Browser component with an SVG page within a .NET2.0 Application. I
        > > can't find enough information in the license agreement about this
        > > specifically. If anybody on this group has any experience on this
        > > matter, can you please share them?
        > >
        > > Regards,
        > > PH.
        > >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Phi - Tran
        Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
        plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
        HTTP://oneplusplus.com


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • pingvinh
        Hi Andreas, I thank you for you reply. I am more interested in the licensing of ASV than other solutions. I already have the groundwork for my product using
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 31, 2006
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          Hi Andreas,

          I thank you for you reply. I am more interested in the licensing
          of ASV than other solutions. I already have the groundwork for my
          product using ASV. The output will be compatible with other
          browsers (FF or Opera) but I have found that the ASV plugin
          render SVG a lot faster and therefore using it within my editor.

          Regards,
          Vinh.


          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <neumann@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > I personally wouldn't build anything commercial around the Adobe SVG
          viewer, currently.
          >
          > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible
          sign that they will
          > release a new version.
          >
          > Other options are:
          >
          > * Batik (Java)
          > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
          > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
          > * eSVG (commercial)
          > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla),
          don't know if one can
          > embed them
          >
          > Andreas
        • Fulio Pen
          I like to make sure that my understanding is correct. The ASV has been abandoned by Adobe. So no download of the viewer is available. There are quite a few
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 31, 2006
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            I like to make sure that my understanding is correct. The ASV has been abandoned by Adobe. So no download of the viewer is available. There are quite a few svg files in my personal web site, and more will be added. I always tell the visitors of my pages that they have to download the ASV to view the graphics.

            If Adobe has abandoned the viewer, do I have to tell my visitors that they must purchase a commercial software, as listed in the quoted message below, to view the svg files? This must be a fatal blow to svg.

            Thanks in advance for clarification.

            Fulio Pen


            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <neumann@...> wrote:

            > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible
            sign that they will release a new version.
            >
            > Other options are:
            >
            > * Batik (Java)
            > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
            > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
            > * eSVG (commercial)
            > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla),
            don't know if one can
            > embed them
            >
            > Andreas






            ---------------------------------
            Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Andreas Neumann
            Hi Fulio, abandoned does not mean that the viewer isn t available anymore. The download is still available at http://www.adobe.com/svg/. It just means that
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 31, 2006
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              Hi Fulio,

              abandoned does not mean that the viewer isn't available anymore. The download is still
              available at http://www.adobe.com/svg/. It just means that they currently don't develop it
              any further, unless some big customer forces them to.

              This doesn't mean that Adobe stopped all SVG activities. Its still supported in many Adobe
              products, incl. Illustrator, GoLive, Indesign, etc.

              I guess parts of the reason is that Adobe bought Macromedia, but also, that SVG is more
              and more supported natively in browsers, nowadays. All browser vendors are currently
              working on improving or adding SVG support. This is much better than having to rely on
              plugins, anyway. Given that fact, why should Adobe invest in a SVG plugin and not just
              concentrate on delivering authoring solutions?

              Currently, we have a number of webbrowsers supporting SVG naitvely, we have
              commercial viewers, like the ones from Bitflash, Ikivo, eSVG, etc. and Apache Batik. So,
              there is choice. Batik, just recently added initial SMIL support to the trunk version, soon to
              be released in the stable release.

              SVG is not dependent on Adobe anymore. It can live without Adobe.

              The reason I say that, is that I'd like to tell people to realize and accept that they have to
              develop and test their SVG graphics and applications in multiple browsers and viewers and
              not just in the Adobe SVG viewer in Internet Explorer.

              But it also opens a lot of opportunites. SVG will be better integrated in the rest of the
              webworld, one can mix SVG with HTML or embed HTML in SVG, or have SVG graphics as a
              background graphics in the browser, etc. All things that are nearly impossible with the use
              of plugins. Also, problems like the Eolas patent, etc. go away, if SVG is natively supported
              in the browser.

              Andreas


              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Fulio Pen <fuliopen@...> wrote:
              >
              > I like to make sure that my understanding is correct. The ASV has been abandoned by
              Adobe. So no download of the viewer is available. There are quite a few svg files in my
              personal web site, and more will be added. I always tell the visitors of my pages that they
              have to download the ASV to view the graphics.
              >
              > If Adobe has abandoned the viewer, do I have to tell my visitors that they must purchase
              a commercial software, as listed in the quoted message below, to view the svg files? This
              must be a fatal blow to svg.
              >
              > Thanks in advance for clarification.
              >
              > Fulio Pen
              >
              >
              > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <neumann@> wrote:
              >
              > > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible
              > sign that they will release a new version.
              > >
              > > Other options are:
              > >
              > > * Batik (Java)
              > > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
              > > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
              > > * eSVG (commercial)
              > > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla),
              > don't know if one can
              > > embed them
              > >
              > > Andreas
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ---------------------------------
              > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at
              1�/min.
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Fulio Pen
              Hi Andreas: Thanks a lot for your explanation. I feel good for SVG becoming more popular and more convenient on the browsers. Fulio Pen Andreas Neumann
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 31, 2006
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                Hi Andreas:

                Thanks a lot for your explanation. I feel good for SVG becoming more popular and more convenient on the browsers.

                Fulio Pen

                Andreas Neumann <neumann@...> wrote: Hi Fulio,

                abandoned does not mean that the viewer isn't available anymore. The download is still
                available at http://www.adobe.com/svg/. It just means that they currently don't develop it
                any further, unless some big customer forces them to.

                This doesn't mean that Adobe stopped all SVG activities. Its still supported in many Adobe
                products, incl. Illustrator, GoLive, Indesign, etc.

                I guess parts of the reason is that Adobe bought Macromedia, but also, that SVG is more
                and more supported natively in browsers, nowadays. All browser vendors are currently
                working on improving or adding SVG support. This is much better than having to rely on
                plugins, anyway. Given that fact, why should Adobe invest in a SVG plugin and not just
                concentrate on delivering authoring solutions?

                Currently, we have a number of webbrowsers supporting SVG naitvely, we have
                commercial viewers, like the ones from Bitflash, Ikivo, eSVG, etc. and Apache Batik. So,
                there is choice. Batik, just recently added initial SMIL support to the trunk version, soon to
                be released in the stable release.

                SVG is not dependent on Adobe anymore. It can live without Adobe.

                The reason I say that, is that I'd like to tell people to realize and accept that they have to
                develop and test their SVG graphics and applications in multiple browsers and viewers and
                not just in the Adobe SVG viewer in Internet Explorer.

                But it also opens a lot of opportunites. SVG will be better integrated in the rest of the
                webworld, one can mix SVG with HTML or embed HTML in SVG, or have SVG graphics as a
                background graphics in the browser, etc. All things that are nearly impossible with the use
                of plugins. Also, problems like the Eolas patent, etc. go away, if SVG is natively supported
                in the browser.

                Andreas

                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Fulio Pen <fuliopen@...> wrote:
                >
                > I like to make sure that my understanding is correct. The ASV has been abandoned by
                Adobe. So no download of the viewer is available. There are quite a few svg files in my
                personal web site, and more will be added. I always tell the visitors of my pages that they
                have to download the ASV to view the graphics.
                >
                > If Adobe has abandoned the viewer, do I have to tell my visitors that they must purchase
                a commercial software, as listed in the quoted message below, to view the svg files? This
                must be a fatal blow to svg.
                >
                > Thanks in advance for clarification.
                >
                > Fulio Pen
                >
                >
                > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <neumann@> wrote:
                >
                > > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible
                > sign that they will release a new version.
                > >
                > > Other options are:
                > >
                > > * Batik (Java)
                > > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
                > > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
                > > * eSVG (commercial)
                > > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera, Mozilla),
                > don't know if one can
                > > embed them
                > >
                > > Andreas
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at
                1�/min.
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >






                ---------------------------------
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Fulio Pen
                Hello, Please open the following page: http://www.pinyinology.com/ontology/ideograph.svg Also please look at the line between the ideograph circle and sound
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 4, 2006
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                  Hello,

                  Please open the following page:

                  http://www.pinyinology.com/ontology/ideograph.svg

                  Also please look at the line between the ideograph circle and sound circle in the page. There is now an arrow at the upper end of the line, pointing upward to the ideograph circle.

                  I need to add an arrow at the lower end of the line, pointing downward to the sound circle. In other words, there will be two arrows on this line, one at each end, pointing to opposite directions.

                  The two arrows will be in exactly same shape and size. I know this is a very simple job for professionals, but not for me.

                  Thanks a lot for your help.

                  Fulio Pen




                  ---------------------------------
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Phi Tran
                  I swap (x1,y1,
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 4, 2006
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                    <!-- sound marker -->
                    <line x2="150" y2="275" x1="248" y1="216" stroke="lime"
                    stroke-width="3" stroke-opacity="0" marker-end="url(#myMarker)" />

                    I swap (x1,y1, x2,y2) then add stroke-opacity=0 (make the line transparent)
                    Hope this help.

                    phi

                    On 8/4/06, Fulio Pen <fuliopen@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello,
                    >
                    > Please open the following page:
                    >
                    > http://www.pinyinology.com/ontology/ideograph.svg
                    >
                    > Also please look at the line between the ideograph circle and sound circle
                    > in the page. There is now an arrow at the upper end of the line, pointing
                    > upward to the ideograph circle.
                    >
                    > I need to add an arrow at the lower end of the line, pointing downward to
                    > the sound circle. In other words, there will be two arrows on this line, one
                    > at each end, pointing to opposite directions.
                    >
                    > The two arrows will be in exactly same shape and size. I know this is a
                    > very simple job for professionals, but not for me.
                    >
                    > Thanks a lot for your help.
                    >
                    > Fulio Pen
                    >
                    >
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    --
                    Phi - Tran
                    Hugely increase your speed, saving your band-width with ZipProtocol
                    plus crystal clear SVG Rendering image at
                    HTTP://oneplusplus.com


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Doug Schepers
                    Hi, Fulio- Indeed, this is pretty simple (though not as simple as possible). Take a look at my revision of your file:
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 5, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Hi, Fulio-

                      Indeed, this is pretty simple (though not as simple as possible). Take a
                      look at my revision of your file:

                      http://svg-whiz.com/svg/linguistics/fuliopen/ideograph.svg

                      You'll see that I added another marker that faced the other direction, and
                      referenced that on the same line using the 'marker-start' attribute. This
                      preserves the semantics of the document and makes it more easily maintained
                      (facts which you as a linguist and an author, respectively, should
                      appreciate).

                      On the subject of semantics, I also played with the structure of your file,
                      turning your comments into the contents of 'title' elements and grouping
                      related shapes. This makes the document a little more "object-oriented"
                      (again, easier to maintain and extend), and more accessible (a screen reader
                      can now describe your document to a blind person with some degree of
                      fidelity).

                      I also repositioned the text labels so that they are centered on the same
                      point as the center of the associated circles. This is a handy little
                      trick.

                      -----------------------
                      A speculative note on marker enhancement: I think it would be nice if
                      markers had an additional value for the 'orient' attribute... it would be in
                      addition to "auto" and "<angle>", and would tell the UA to orient the marker
                      differently depending on what its role is. So, "auto-start" (or whatever)
                      would indicate that this marker is facing the proper direction for the
                      'marker-start' attribute, and that if it is used for the 'marker-end'
                      attribute it should be reversed... or maybe this should be a new attribute
                      on the marker element, 'role'. Anyway, just a thought. Another nice thing
                      would be for the marker to be able to take the stroke or the fill from the
                      "host" element's stroke, so I could use the same marker for each of 5
                      differently-colored lines, and it would match the color of each.

                      Thoughts?

                      Regards-
                      Doug


                      Fulio Pen wrote:
                      |
                      | Hello,
                      |
                      | Please open the following page:
                      |
                      | http://www.pinyinology.com/ontology/ideograph.svg
                      |
                      | Also please look at the line between the ideograph circle and
                      | sound circle in the page. There is now an arrow at the upper
                      | end of the line, pointing upward to the ideograph circle.
                      |
                      | I need to add an arrow at the lower end of the line, pointing
                      | downward to the sound circle. In other words, there will be
                      | two arrows on this line, one at each end, pointing to
                      | opposite directions.
                      |
                      | The two arrows will be in exactly same shape and size. I
                      | know this is a very simple job for professionals, but not for me.
                      |
                      | Thanks a lot for your help.
                      |
                      | Fulio Pen
                    • Fulio Pen
                      Hi, Doug: Thanks a lot for your help. The page looks much nicer with the modification. Sincerely, Fulio Pen Doug Schepers wrote:
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 5, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi, Doug:

                        Thanks a lot for your help. The page looks much nicer with the modification.

                        Sincerely,
                        Fulio Pen

                        Doug Schepers <doug@...> wrote: Hi, Fulio-

                        Indeed, this is pretty simple (though not as simple as possible). Take a
                        look at my revision of your file:

                        http://svg-whiz.com/svg/linguistics/fuliopen/ideograph.svg

                        You'll see that I added another marker that faced the other direction, and
                        referenced that on the same line using the 'marker-start' attribute. This
                        preserves the semantics of the document and makes it more easily maintained
                        (facts which you as a linguist and an author, respectively, should
                        appreciate).

                        On the subject of semantics, I also played with the structure of your file,
                        turning your comments into the contents of 'title' elements and grouping
                        related shapes. This makes the document a little more "object-oriented"
                        (again, easier to maintain and extend), and more accessible (a screen reader
                        can now describe your document to a blind person with some degree of
                        fidelity).

                        I also repositioned the text labels so that they are centered on the same
                        point as the center of the associated circles. This is a handy little
                        trick.

                        -----------------------
                        A speculative note on marker enhancement: I think it would be nice if
                        markers had an additional value for the 'orient' attribute... it would be in
                        addition to "auto" and "<angle>", and would tell the UA to orient the marker
                        differently depending on what its role is. So, "auto-start" (or whatever)
                        would indicate that this marker is facing the proper direction for the
                        'marker-start' attribute, and that if it is used for the 'marker-end'
                        attribute it should be reversed... or maybe this should be a new attribute
                        on the marker element, 'role'. Anyway, just a thought. Another nice thing
                        would be for the marker to be able to take the stroke or the fill from the
                        "host" element's stroke, so I could use the same marker for each of 5
                        differently-colored lines, and it would match the color of each.

                        Thoughts?

                        Regards-
                        Doug


                        Fulio Pen wrote:
                        |
                        | Hello,
                        |
                        | Please open the following page:
                        |
                        | http://www.pinyinology.com/ontology/ideograph.svg
                        |
                        | Also please look at the line between the ideograph circle and
                        | sound circle in the page. There is now an arrow at the upper
                        | end of the line, pointing upward to the ideograph circle.
                        |
                        | I need to add an arrow at the lower end of the line, pointing
                        | downward to the sound circle. In other words, there will be
                        | two arrows on this line, one at each end, pointing to
                        | opposite directions.
                        |
                        | The two arrows will be in exactly same shape and size. I
                        | know this is a very simple job for professionals, but not for me.
                        |
                        | Thanks a lot for your help.
                        |
                        | Fulio Pen






                        ---------------------------------
                        Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • zedkineece
                        Without traversing through each reply, we included the viewer in one of our commercial apps. You have to register with Adobe first
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 9, 2006
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                          Without traversing through each reply, we included the viewer in one
                          of our commercial apps. You have to register with Adobe first
                          (http://www.adobe.com/svg/svgdistribute.html), then you must comply
                          with their requirements (which is basically adding thier logo and
                          copyright/trademark information).

                          Other than that, it doesn't cost anything and is relatively easy.

                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "pingvinh" <pingvinh@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Hi Andreas,
                          >
                          > I thank you for you reply. I am more interested in the licensing
                          > of ASV than other solutions. I already have the groundwork for my
                          > product using ASV. The output will be compatible with other
                          > browsers (FF or Opera) but I have found that the ASV plugin
                          > render SVG a lot faster and therefore using it within my editor.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Vinh.
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann" <neumann@>
                          > wrote:
                          > >
                          > > I personally wouldn't build anything commercial around the Adobe
                          SVG
                          > viewer, currently.
                          > >
                          > > Adobe abandoned the SVG viewer and currently there is no visible
                          > sign that they will
                          > > release a new version.
                          > >
                          > > Other options are:
                          > >
                          > > * Batik (Java)
                          > > * Bitflash viewer (commercial)
                          > > * Ikivo Viewer (commercial)
                          > > * eSVG (commercial)
                          > > * any of the browsers with native SVG support (e.g. Opera,
                          Mozilla),
                          > don't know if one can
                          > > embed them
                          > >
                          > > Andreas
                          >
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