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Re: [svg-developers] HTML form communication

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  • Holger Will
    ... Hi Pete your examples does not work in mozillas native SVG implementation, there are a few errors, which prevent it from working cross implementation. 1.
    Message 1 of 16 , Aug 31, 2005
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      Pete d'Oronzio schrieb:

      > > Hi James.
      > >
      > > I tried to do this a couple of years ago and failed. I more recently
      > > accomplished it. So, I've updated an old page that
      > > demonstrated getting SVG
      > > to call HTML. That page now also demonstrates HTML calling SVG.
      > >
      > > HTH
      >
      >
      > Guess the link would have helped :-0
      >
      > http://research.pdmagic.com/test/svgnew/arrows.html

      Hi Pete

      your examples does not work in mozillas native SVG implementation,
      there are a few errors, which prevent it from working cross implementation.

      1. please correct the MimeType ! the svg file is send as text/html but
      should be send as image/svg+xml
      2. you dont declare namespaces, in your root svg element, you have to
      include the namespaces for svg and xlink e.g.:
      <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
      xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" >
      3. you use getters and setters that are against the spec, like
      "getTarget" and "getStyle" ( should just be "target" and "style" )

      here is a nicely commented example showing how to communicate from html
      to svg, so that it works across different implementations:
      http://jwatt.org/svg/demos/scripting-across-embed.html

      to communicate from svg to html, you use parent, unfortunatly this does
      not work in ASV6, if you use "top" instead of "parent" ,
      it should again work across different viewers and browsers.

      [1] http://wiki.mozilla.org/SVG:MIMEType
      [2] http://wiki.mozilla.org/SVG:Namespace
      [3] http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Cross-Platform_Authoring

      cheers
      Holger

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    • Andreas Neumann
      Hi James, an alternative is to use SVG based form controls. The advantage of using SVG form controls is that they also run in Batik, ASV in Safari, Opera,
      Message 2 of 16 , Sep 1, 2005
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        Hi James,

        an alternative is to use SVG based form controls.

        The advantage of using SVG form controls is that they also run in
        Batik, ASV in Safari, Opera, Konqueror, etc.

        SVG and HTML form communication only works on Internet Explorer on
        Windows with the Adobe SVG viewer and on Mozilla native SVG. This
        way you limit the access of your webpage to a limited user group.

        If you are interested in SVG form elements, here are some pointers:

        Selectionlist:
        http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/selectionlist/index.svg with
        documentation at http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/selectionlist/

        Slider:
        http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/slider/index.svg

        Colourpicker:
        http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/colourpicker/index.svg

        Textbox:
        http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/index.svg - the textbox
        is still under development.

        --------------

        alternative projects are:
        http://spark.sourceforge.net/

        and
        http://www.mycgiserver.com/~amri/swine/swine.htm
        with demos at
        http://www.mycgiserver.com/~amri/swine/test.svg

        The last demo is amazing!

        --------------

        While I think that HTML/SVG communication is a good way in the
        future when SVG is native in browsers everywhere, I think that
        currently it is better to develop these widgets in SVG to reach a
        broader audience.

        All the best,
        Andreas
      • James Ross
        many thanks for the pointers, will have a look and see if i can get it working. cheers, James ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 16 , Sep 1, 2005
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          many thanks for the pointers, will have a look and see if i can get it
          working.
          cheers,
          James

          James Ross wrote:

          >Hi List,
          >How easy is html form and svg communication?
          >For example a country map in svg, and a html selection list with cities.
          >if the city is selected (form), the svg updates (hilighting the city).
          >if a city is selected (svg), the html updates.
          >Is this kind of thing possible without having to reload the whole page?
          >Any pointers to examples out there would be greatly appreciated.
          >Many thanks
          >James
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Steve
          Hi, I have been able to find many good examples of inter document communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a situation in which my stad alone
          Message 4 of 16 , Sep 1, 2005
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            Hi,

            I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
            communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a situation in
            which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing an html
            form via window.open. I would like this html form to communicate with
            the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and update
            variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and call
            functions etc.

            I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it would be
            nice if it was cross platform...

            If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from standalone
            svg and successfully communicating between the new window and the
            parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.

            Thanks
            Steve
          • jayraghu04
            Hi Steve, Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter docuemnt communication when svg is embedded in Html. Thanks & regards Raghu ... in ...
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 1, 2005
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              Hi Steve,
              Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter docuemnt
              communication when svg is embedded in Html.

              Thanks & regards
              Raghu

              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...> wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
              > communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a situation
              in
              > which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing an
              html
              > form via window.open. I would like this html form to communicate
              with
              > the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and update
              > variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and
              call
              > functions etc.
              >
              > I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it
              would be
              > nice if it was cross platform...
              >
              > If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from
              standalone
              > svg and successfully communicating between the new window and the
              > parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.
              >
              > Thanks
              > Steve
            • Steve
              Here is a good one http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Inter-Document_Communication STEVE ... docuemnt ... situation ... an
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                Here is a good one

                http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Inter-Document_Communication

                STEVE


                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jayraghu04" <jayraghu04@y...>
                wrote:
                > Hi Steve,
                > Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter
                docuemnt
                > communication when svg is embedded in Html.
                >
                > Thanks & regards
                > Raghu
                >
                > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...> wrote:
                > > Hi,
                > >
                > > I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
                > > communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a
                situation
                > in
                > > which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing
                an
                > html
                > > form via window.open. I would like this html form to communicate
                > with
                > > the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and update
                > > variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and
                > call
                > > functions etc.
                > >
                > > I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it
                > would be
                > > nice if it was cross platform...
                > >
                > > If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from
                > standalone
                > > svg and successfully communicating between the new window and the
                > > parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.
                > >
                > > Thanks
                > > Steve
              • jayraghu04
                Thanks lot steve. I have one doubt regards this. Before In my script I include this line
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                  Thanks lot steve.
                  I have one doubt regards this. Before In my script I include this line
                  <script type="text/ecmascript" a3:scriptImplementation="Adobe"
                  xlink:href="Button.js"/>. So within button.js I can't refer
                  parent object. It just shows the error message parent is undefined.
                  Now I have changed the line like below. <script
                  type="text/ecmascript" xlink:href="Button.js"/>. Now I don't have
                  receive any message. What is the different between Adome script
                  implementation and other. How Can I refer parent object in Adobe
                  script implementation. Please suggest me If a ask right question.

                  Thanks
                  Raghu
                  --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...> wrote:
                  > Here is a good one
                  >
                  > http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Inter-
                  Document_Communication
                  >
                  > STEVE
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jayraghu04"
                  <jayraghu04@y...>
                  > wrote:
                  > > Hi Steve,
                  > > Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter
                  > docuemnt
                  > > communication when svg is embedded in Html.
                  > >
                  > > Thanks & regards
                  > > Raghu
                  > >
                  > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...>
                  wrote:
                  > > > Hi,
                  > > >
                  > > > I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
                  > > > communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a
                  > situation
                  > > in
                  > > > which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing
                  > an
                  > > html
                  > > > form via window.open. I would like this html form to
                  communicate
                  > > with
                  > > > the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and
                  update
                  > > > variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and
                  > > call
                  > > > functions etc.
                  > > >
                  > > > I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it
                  > > would be
                  > > > nice if it was cross platform...
                  > > >
                  > > > If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from
                  > > standalone
                  > > > svg and successfully communicating between the new window and
                  the
                  > > > parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.
                  > > >
                  > > > Thanks
                  > > > Steve
                • Holger Will
                  ... you can t ! this is a quote from the document Steve pointed you to: *Note:* These techniques do not work when using ASV Internal JavaScript Engine
                  Message 8 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                    jayraghu04 schrieb:

                    > Thanks lot steve.
                    > I have one doubt regards this. Before In my script I include this line
                    > <script type="text/ecmascript" a3:scriptImplementation="Adobe"
                    > xlink:href="Button.js"/>. So within button.js I can't refer
                    > parent object. It just shows the error message parent is undefined.
                    > Now I have changed the line like below. <script
                    > type="text/ecmascript" xlink:href="Button.js"/>. Now I don't have
                    > receive any message. What is the different between Adome script
                    > implementation and other. How Can I refer parent object in Adobe
                    > script implementation.

                    you can't ! this is a quote from the document Steve pointed you to:

                    *Note:* These techniques do not work when using ASV Internal JavaScript
                    Engine
                    <http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=ASV_Internal_JavaScript_Engine>


                    > Please suggest me If a ask right question.
                    >
                    > Thanks
                    > Raghu
                    > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...> wrote:
                    > > Here is a good one
                    > >
                    > > http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Inter-
                    > Document_Communication
                    > >
                    > > STEVE
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jayraghu04"
                    > <jayraghu04@y...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Hi Steve,
                    > > > Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter
                    > > docuemnt
                    > > > communication when svg is embedded in Html.
                    > > >
                    > > > Thanks & regards
                    > > > Raghu
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > > > Hi,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
                    > > > > communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a
                    > > situation
                    > > > in
                    > > > > which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing
                    > > an
                    > > > html
                    > > > > form via window.open. I would like this html form to
                    > communicate
                    > > > with
                    > > > > the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and
                    > update
                    > > > > variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and
                    > > > call
                    > > > > functions etc.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it
                    > > > would be
                    > > > > nice if it was cross platform...
                    > > > >
                    > > > > If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from
                    > > > standalone
                    > > > > svg and successfully communicating between the new window and
                    > the
                    > > > > parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks
                    > > > > Steve
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > -----
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                  • Holger Will
                    ... i ve just updated the examples on the wiki , so they work in IE+ASV3/6 and mozilla/firefox s native svg implementation. ... -- if this information was
                    Message 9 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                      Steve schrieb:

                      > Here is a good one
                      >
                      > http://svg-whiz.com/wiki/index.php?title=Inter-Document_Communication


                      i've just updated the examples on the wiki , so they work in IE+ASV3/6
                      and mozilla/firefox's native svg implementation.


                      >
                      > STEVE
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "jayraghu04" <jayraghu04@y...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > Hi Steve,
                      > > Could you please suggest me any one good examples of inter
                      > docuemnt
                      > > communication when svg is embedded in Html.
                      > >
                      > > Thanks & regards
                      > > Raghu
                      > >
                      > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <harwins@d...> wrote:
                      > > > Hi,
                      > > >
                      > > > I have been able to find many good examples of inter document
                      > > > communication when SVG is embedded in HTML...but I have a
                      > situation
                      > > in
                      > > > which my stad alone SVG document spawns a new window containing
                      > an
                      > > html
                      > > > form via window.open. I would like this html form to communicate
                      > > with
                      > > > the parent standalone svg, ie the form needs to access and update
                      > > > variables and objects that exist in the svg docs javascript and
                      > > call
                      > > > functions etc.
                      > > >
                      > > > I am most interested in achieving this in IE+ASV3, although it
                      > > would be
                      > > > nice if it was cross platform...
                      > > >
                      > > > If anyone has a nice example of spawning an html doc from
                      > > standalone
                      > > > svg and successfully communicating between the new window and the
                      > > > parent svg I would greatly appreciate it.
                      > > >
                      > > > Thanks
                      > > > Steve
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -----
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                    • Pete d'Oronzio
                      Hi Holger, Thanks for the info. I m implementing some of it right now. However, I m ... Where is this done? Not in the SVG, right? I have a server
                      Message 10 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                        Hi Holger,

                        Thanks for the info. I'm implementing some of it right now. However, I'm
                        not sure about all of it:

                        > 1. please correct the MimeType ! the svg file is send as
                        > text/html but should be send as image/svg+xml

                        Where is this done? Not in the SVG, right? I have a server application
                        that I produce svg from. It sets the correct MimeType. How do I do this
                        when, as in this example, I'm serving up from IIS?

                        > 2. you dont
                        > declare namespaces, in your root svg element, you have to
                        > include the namespaces for svg and xlink e.g.:
                        > <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
                        > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" >

                        Indeed. This was done some type ago and when I updated it, I didn't notice
                        it was missing.

                        > 3. you use
                        > getters and setters that are against the spec, like
                        > "getTarget" and "getStyle" ( should just be "target" and "style" )

                        I didn't know that. Thanks!

                        > here is a nicely commented example showing how to communicate
                        > from html to svg, so that it works across different implementations:
                        > http://jwatt.org/svg/demos/scripting-across-embed.html

                        I see this as a way to access elements in the svg from within the html.
                        Does it provide access to call the svg's JS functions? How about access
                        from the SVG to HTML JS?

                        > to communicate from svg to html, you use parent, unfortunatly
                        > ...

                        No... I changed that. I think you are seeing a commented line of JS. I use
                        "top" in the only call out of svg.


                        Thanks *very* much for these insights. As I mentioned in my original
                        response, I'd just figured these things out recently, so it's nice to get
                        them clarified and corrected here. I'm implementing your suggestions /
                        corrections into my "real" app now.

                        -pete
                      • Holger Will
                        ... it seems the mimeType is correct, might be an error on my side, but that part works now :-) ... this also shows how to access svgs window object. all
                        Message 11 of 16 , Sep 2, 2005
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                          Pete d'Oronzio schrieb:

                          > Hi Holger,
                          >
                          > Thanks for the info. I'm implementing some of it right now. However, I'm
                          > not sure about all of it:
                          >
                          > > 1. please correct the MimeType ! the svg file is send as
                          > > text/html but should be send as image/svg+xml
                          >
                          > Where is this done? Not in the SVG, right? I have a server application
                          > that I produce svg from. It sets the correct MimeType. How do I do this
                          > when, as in this example, I'm serving up from IIS?


                          it seems the mimeType is correct, might be an error on my side, but that
                          part works now :-)

                          >
                          > > 2. you dont
                          > > declare namespaces, in your root svg element, you have to
                          > > include the namespaces for svg and xlink e.g.:
                          > > <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg"
                          > > xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink" >
                          >
                          > Indeed. This was done some type ago and when I updated it, I didn't
                          > notice
                          > it was missing.
                          >
                          > > 3. you use
                          > > getters and setters that are against the spec, like
                          > > "getTarget" and "getStyle" ( should just be "target" and "style" )
                          >
                          > I didn't know that. Thanks!
                          >
                          > > here is a nicely commented example showing how to communicate
                          > > from html to svg, so that it works across different implementations:
                          > > http://jwatt.org/svg/demos/scripting-across-embed.html
                          >
                          > I see this as a way to access elements in the svg from within the html.
                          > Does it provide access to call the svg's JS functions? How about access
                          > from the SVG to HTML JS?


                          this also shows how to access svgs window object.
                          all functions and variables defined in the svg are members of that
                          window object.
                          as for communicating SVG to HTML, you are right, but your figured that
                          out yourself i see.

                          >
                          > > to communicate from svg to html, you use parent, unfortunatly
                          > > ...
                          >
                          > No... I changed that. I think you are seeing a commented line of JS.
                          > I use
                          > "top" in the only call out of svg.
                          >
                          >
                          > Thanks *very* much for these insights. As I mentioned in my original
                          > response, I'd just figured these things out recently, so it's nice to get
                          > them clarified and corrected here. I'm implementing your suggestions /
                          > corrections into my "real" app now.
                          >
                          > -pete
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > -----
                          > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                          > svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          > -or-
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                          > membership"
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                        • welkerpaul
                          Andreas, the last demo is really amazing. The swine table implementation is my favorite! Still, there s one question left: Does the appreciated promotion of
                          Message 12 of 16 , Sep 4, 2005
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                            Andreas,
                            the last demo is really amazing. The swine table implementation is
                            my favorite!
                            Still, there's one question left:
                            Does the appreciated promotion of open-standard technologies justify
                            to win someone over to bullshit-engineering?
                            Please don't take this question for condemnation. As I see it, it's
                            a question that (every?) svg-developer is faced more or less in the
                            situation at present. So please be generous and discern the scared
                            expression:-o

                            Best Regards
                            Paul

                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Andreas Neumann"
                            <neumann@k...> wrote:
                            > Hi James,
                            >
                            > an alternative is to use SVG based form controls.
                            >
                            > The advantage of using SVG form controls is that they also run in
                            > Batik, ASV in Safari, Opera, Konqueror, etc.
                            >
                            > SVG and HTML form communication only works on Internet Explorer on
                            > Windows with the Adobe SVG viewer and on Mozilla native SVG. This
                            > way you limit the access of your webpage to a limited user group.
                            >
                            > If you are interested in SVG form elements, here are some
                            pointers:
                            >
                            > Selectionlist:
                            > http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/selectionlist/index.svg with
                            > documentation at
                            http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/selectionlist/
                            >
                            > Slider:
                            > http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/slider/index.svg
                            >
                            > Colourpicker:
                            > http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/colourpicker/index.svg
                            >
                            > Textbox:
                            > http://www.carto.net/papers/svg/gui/textbox/index.svg - the
                            textbox
                            > is still under development.
                            >
                            > --------------
                            >
                            > alternative projects are:
                            > http://spark.sourceforge.net/
                            >
                            > and
                            > http://www.mycgiserver.com/~amri/swine/swine.htm
                            > with demos at
                            > http://www.mycgiserver.com/~amri/swine/test.svg
                            >
                            > The last demo is amazing!
                            >
                            > --------------
                            >
                            > While I think that HTML/SVG communication is a good way in the
                            > future when SVG is native in browsers everywhere, I think that
                            > currently it is better to develop these widgets in SVG to reach a
                            > broader audience.
                            >
                            > All the best,
                            > Andreas
                          • Andreas Neumann
                            Hi Paul, ... I see the SVG only approach for GUI elements as an intermediate step until the browsers get mature enough for mixing different technologies. As a
                            Message 13 of 16 , Sep 5, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Hi Paul,

                              > Does the appreciated promotion of open-standard technologies justify
                              > to win someone over to bullshit-engineering?

                              I see the SVG only approach for GUI elements as an intermediate step until the browsers
                              get mature enough for mixing different technologies. As a side-effect, the SVG only
                              approach allows you to fully control the look and feel, which isn't easily possible with
                              other technologies.

                              It might not be as elegant as other approaches but it is the only alternative if you want to
                              deliver SVG solutions to all platforms and browsers.

                              What exactly do you mean by "bullshit-engineering"? Do you mean the programming style
                              of the widgets? Well, sure, they are not perfect. And many of the people writing these GUI
                              elements aren't programmers but are experts in other domains. But they will get better in
                              the future. Everyone is invited to contribute to these projects!

                              What alternatives do you suggest?

                              I think the alternatives (f.e. Macromedia Flash) isn't any better. Most widgets you see in
                              Flash applications aren't perfect either. They also don't behave like native widgets in the
                              operating system. It's better with Java, but there are also differences between Java widgets
                              and native widgets.

                              Andreas
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