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RE: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer

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  • William McKenzie
    What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be to find something like kode (part of debian linux, I believe) that would generate c++
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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      What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be to find
      something like 'kode' (part of debian linux, I believe) that would generate
      c++ classes or templates from the RelaxNG schema for svg. Those classes
      could then be used to generate SVG objects. If you are in the .NET
      environment, you might want to consider using ADO.NET to get your database
      objects as XML, and then using XSLT to transform them into SVG. Really
      fairly flexible and elegant, if you can deal with XSLT.

      ~Bill

      -----Original Message-----
      From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Chris Serio
      Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:47 AM
      To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer

      Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find a high level API with basic
      functions built into it like "DrawColoredRectangle
      (x,y,len,width,color)"

      There's a very near deadline on this project so i'm trying to get a
      library with the most comprehensive API i can.

      Chris


      --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Holger Will <holger@t...>
      wrote:
      > Chris Serio schrieb:
      >
      > > Hey all,
      > >
      > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
      > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
      > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will
      be
      > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some
      data
      > > in a database.
      > >
      > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
      have
      > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
      routings.
      > > >From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
      > >
      > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there
      an
      > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
      > >
      > > Thanks for any suggestions,
      > > Chris
      >
      > Hi Chris
      >
      > i dont know any c/c++ , but as svg is just plain simple xml, you
      should
      > be able to build your svgs with any xml lib.
      > for more advanced features including rendering, and rendering to
      pdf see:
      > http://cairographics.org/introduction
      > and
      > http://cairographics.org/libsvg
      >
      > or if you could use Java, there is the Apache Batik project, which
      is
      > the most complete open source SVG implementation.
      > http://xml.apache.org/batik/
      >
      > and if you are on Linux have a look at
      > http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/
      >
      > or if you plan to have a GUI , and want that to be portable, you
      migth
      > as well think of building a XUL app, using mozilla svg.
      > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/
      > http://www.xulplanet.com/
      >
      > as i said i dont know c/c++ ,
      > hope it helps anyways
      > Holger





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    • r_v_putten
      Hi, I had sent a message 90 minutes ago, but used a wrong mail address so it probably got rejected... I ll just copy it here. One note: Mark might be right
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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        Hi,

        I had sent a message 90 minutes ago, but used a wrong mail address so
        it probably got rejected... I'll just copy it here.

        One note: Mark might be right about database+xslt+whatever being
        simpler (I haven't used xslt yet), but as a proficient C/C++
        programmer who is used to working with flat ascii files, this might
        get you to the point in a shorter time, because you don't have to
        learn a new concept. If you knew you had to work on the project for
        the next 4 years, my suggestion is xslt/whatever, for a project in a
        very short time, it's C++.

        And now the old message:

        Hello Chris,

        > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
        generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
        possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will be
        generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some data
        in a database.

        My first suggestion is to check if Visio really can open all of SVG.
        SVG is a really complex thing, so if you take one program that outputs
        SVG, I don't think another program that inputs SVG can necessarily
        understand everything correctly.

        > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will have
        connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin routings.
        From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
        >
        > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there an
        SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?

        I'm a C/C++ programmer too, and if I had to do such a thing today, I
        would probable just output text files from my program. That way you
        can control what's in the SVG and that Visio will understand it. An
        XML library might be of help, but it shouldn't even be necessary. I
        think I'd chose fprintf().

        My suggestion would be to read a book about SVG and then use it like
        an operating systems drawing functions. Lines and rects are no problem
        at all, transformations and scaling is easy if you extensively used a
        graphics lib before. Reusing parts of the graphic with <defs /> and
        <use /> will come in quite handy. There are many more things that SVG
        can do but you will probably not need them.

        Just two cents from an advanced SVG beginner.

        Raoul
      • jophof007
        Hi, You have to write your algorithm to make the symbols on the diagram. You define your objects in javascript with properties and methods. The actual drawing
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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          Hi,

          You have to write your algorithm to make the symbols on the diagram.
          You define your objects in javascript with properties and methods. The
          actual drawing can be done by putting SVG element on your canvas with
          appendChild. The SVG objects have links to the javascript objects.

          See how we did it in open-modeling look in /diagram/flowchart/ here is
          a complex algorithm to determine positions of symbols on a flowchart.
          Download it at http://sourceforge.net/projects/open-modeling (feedback
          welcome). In the war file you find the code. Src directories contains
          the code readable.

          John


          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "r_v_putten" <r_v_putten@y...>
          wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > I had sent a message 90 minutes ago, but used a wrong mail address so
          > it probably got rejected... I'll just copy it here.
          >
          > One note: Mark might be right about database+xslt+whatever being
          > simpler (I haven't used xslt yet), but as a proficient C/C++
          > programmer who is used to working with flat ascii files, this might
          > get you to the point in a shorter time, because you don't have to
          > learn a new concept. If you knew you had to work on the project for
          > the next 4 years, my suggestion is xslt/whatever, for a project in a
          > very short time, it's C++.
          >
          > And now the old message:
          >
          > Hello Chris,
          >
          > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
          > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
          > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will be
          > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some data
          > in a database.
          >
          > My first suggestion is to check if Visio really can open all of SVG.
          > SVG is a really complex thing, so if you take one program that outputs
          > SVG, I don't think another program that inputs SVG can necessarily
          > understand everything correctly.
          >
          > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will have
          > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin routings.
          > From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
          > >
          > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there an
          > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
          >
          > I'm a C/C++ programmer too, and if I had to do such a thing today, I
          > would probable just output text files from my program. That way you
          > can control what's in the SVG and that Visio will understand it. An
          > XML library might be of help, but it shouldn't even be necessary. I
          > think I'd chose fprintf().
          >
          > My suggestion would be to read a book about SVG and then use it like
          > an operating systems drawing functions. Lines and rects are no problem
          > at all, transformations and scaling is easy if you extensively used a
          > graphics lib before. Reusing parts of the graphic with <defs /> and
          > <use /> will come in quite handy. There are many more things that SVG
          > can do but you will probably not need them.
          >
          > Just two cents from an advanced SVG beginner.
          >
          > Raoul
        • Mark Birbeck
          Hi Raoul, ... I still think XML+XSLT- SVG is way ahead of C++ for this type of application (and I m assuming a great deal about what Chris is trying to do, so
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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            Hi Raoul,

            > One note: Mark might be right about database+xslt+whatever
            > being simpler (I haven't used xslt yet), but as a proficient
            > C/C++ programmer who is used to working with flat ascii
            > files, this might get you to the point in a shorter time,
            > because you don't have to learn a new concept. If you knew
            > you had to work on the project for the next 4 years, my
            > suggestion is xslt/whatever, for a project in a very short
            > time, it's C++.

            I still think XML+XSLT->SVG is way ahead of C++ for this type of application
            (and I'm assuming a great deal about what Chris is trying to do, so I could
            be way off).

            formsPlayer and Sidewinder are entirely written in C++, so it's certainly
            our language of choice. But my guess is that in an application like this
            you'd spend most of your time just manipulating a DOM. Sure you can do that
            in C++, but why bother? There must be better things to do with our time!

            Regards,

            Mark


            Mark Birbeck
            CEO
            x-port.net Ltd.

            e: Mark.Birbeck@...
            t: +44 (0) 20 7689 9232
            w: http://www.formsPlayer.com/
            b: http://internet-apps.blogspot.com/
          • Chris Serio
            Alot of good suggestions here guys but the bottom line is this... I m very fluent in C/C++ so I m more comfortable doing something overkill but fast than
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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              Alot of good suggestions here guys but the bottom line is this...

              I'm very fluent in C/C++ so I'm more comfortable doing something
              overkill but fast than learning something new. I can't take the risk
              in investing my limited amount of time to learning something new
              unless i was sure that it would be a time saver. I'd prefer to stick
              with something that i can judge the required amount of effort with.

              Now some more about my project....All i really want is a command line
              program that reads in a CSV excel file and spits out a SVG graphics
              file. It doesn't need to display it or anything. I plan on taking the
              SVG and opening it in Visio or converting it to a PDF or displaying
              it on a website. Very basic stuff. The kinds of things i need to draw
              are basic as well. It's all black and white with nothing more than
              lines, boxes and text. It's just a wiring schematic. I know visio can
              open this kind of stuff to view it.

              I realize that i can just spit out plain text with fprintf but to do
              so would require a pretty good knowledge of xml which i don't have. I
              know a lot of you right now are either laughing or offended that i
              chose to use XML with this project but i just figured that with the
              right API, i wouldn't need to learn much XML...I could just tell the
              API to export one of the primitives that i need and be done with it.
              If nothing like this exists than i guess i'm going to have to do some
              reading.


              Thanks,
              Chris




              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "r_v_putten" <r_v_putten@y...>
              wrote:
              > Hi,
              >
              > I had sent a message 90 minutes ago, but used a wrong mail address
              so
              > it probably got rejected... I'll just copy it here.
              >
              > One note: Mark might be right about database+xslt+whatever being
              > simpler (I haven't used xslt yet), but as a proficient C/C++
              > programmer who is used to working with flat ascii files, this might
              > get you to the point in a shorter time, because you don't have to
              > learn a new concept. If you knew you had to work on the project for
              > the next 4 years, my suggestion is xslt/whatever, for a project in a
              > very short time, it's C++.
              >
              > And now the old message:
              >
              > Hello Chris,
              >
              > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
              > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
              > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will be
              > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some
              data
              > in a database.
              >
              > My first suggestion is to check if Visio really can open all of SVG.
              > SVG is a really complex thing, so if you take one program that
              outputs
              > SVG, I don't think another program that inputs SVG can necessarily
              > understand everything correctly.
              >
              > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
              have
              > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin routings.
              > From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
              > >
              > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there
              an
              > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
              >
              > I'm a C/C++ programmer too, and if I had to do such a thing today, I
              > would probable just output text files from my program. That way you
              > can control what's in the SVG and that Visio will understand it. An
              > XML library might be of help, but it shouldn't even be necessary. I
              > think I'd chose fprintf().
              >
              > My suggestion would be to read a book about SVG and then use it like
              > an operating systems drawing functions. Lines and rects are no
              problem
              > at all, transformations and scaling is easy if you extensively used
              a
              > graphics lib before. Reusing parts of the graphic with <defs /> and
              > <use /> will come in quite handy. There are many more things that
              SVG
              > can do but you will probably not need them.
              >
              > Just two cents from an advanced SVG beginner.
              >
              > Raoul
            • Chris Serio
              Yeah i d be using .NET. I m not sure what XSLT is but i m going to look into it right now...The database is pretty simple but the drawing needs to have some
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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                Yeah i'd be using .NET. I'm not sure what XSLT is but i'm going to
                look into it right now...The database is pretty simple but the
                drawing needs to have some logic to it so that wires don't cross on
                the schematic etc.

                The database will just be a from-connector #, from-pin #, to-
                connector #, to-pin # and some wire gauge/type for each.

                Chris


                --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "William McKenzie" <bill@c...>
                wrote:
                > What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be
                to find
                > something like 'kode' (part of debian linux, I believe) that would
                generate
                > c++ classes or templates from the RelaxNG schema for svg. Those
                classes
                > could then be used to generate SVG objects. If you are in the .NET
                > environment, you might want to consider using ADO.NET to get your
                database
                > objects as XML, and then using XSLT to transform them into SVG.
                Really
                > fairly flexible and elegant, if you can deal with XSLT.
                >
                > ~Bill
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-
                developers@yahoogroups.com]
                > On Behalf Of Chris Serio
                > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:47 AM
                > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer
                >
                > Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find a high level API with
                basic
                > functions built into it like "DrawColoredRectangle
                > (x,y,len,width,color)"
                >
                > There's a very near deadline on this project so i'm trying to get a
                > library with the most comprehensive API i can.
                >
                > Chris
                >
                >
                > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Holger Will <holger@t...>
                > wrote:
                > > Chris Serio schrieb:
                > >
                > > > Hey all,
                > > >
                > > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it
                to
                > > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                > > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images
                will
                > be
                > > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret
                some
                > data
                > > > in a database.
                > > >
                > > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
                > have
                > > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
                > routings.
                > > > >From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                > > >
                > > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is
                there
                > an
                > > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                > > >
                > > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                > > > Chris
                > >
                > > Hi Chris
                > >
                > > i dont know any c/c++ , but as svg is just plain simple xml, you
                > should
                > > be able to build your svgs with any xml lib.
                > > for more advanced features including rendering, and rendering to
                > pdf see:
                > > http://cairographics.org/introduction
                > > and
                > > http://cairographics.org/libsvg
                > >
                > > or if you could use Java, there is the Apache Batik project,
                which
                > is
                > > the most complete open source SVG implementation.
                > > http://xml.apache.org/batik/
                > >
                > > and if you are on Linux have a look at
                > > http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/
                > >
                > > or if you plan to have a GUI , and want that to be portable, you
                > migth
                > > as well think of building a XUL app, using mozilla svg.
                > > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/
                > > http://www.xulplanet.com/
                > >
                > > as i said i dont know c/c++ ,
                > > hope it helps anyways
                > > Holger
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > -----
                > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                > -or-
                > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                my
                > membership"
                > ----
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
              • Raoul van Putten
                ... Just go and grab the next SVG book, that s my suggestion. And forget Javascript, you most probably don t even need it _for this task_. SVG is as easy as
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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                  Chris Serio wrote:
                  > Alot of good suggestions here guys but the bottom line is this...
                  >
                  > I'm very fluent in C/C++ so I'm more comfortable doing something
                  > overkill but fast than learning something new. I can't take the risk
                  > in investing my limited amount of time to learning something new
                  > unless i was sure that it would be a time saver. I'd prefer to stick
                  > with something that i can judge the required amount of effort with.

                  Just go and grab the next SVG book, that's my suggestion. And forget
                  Javascript, you most probably don't even need it _for this task_.

                  SVG is as easy as

                  <some
                  ... ununderstandable
                  ... preamble>
                  <svg>
                  <line x1="0" y1="0" x2="200" y2="200" />
                  <rect ... />
                  ...
                  </svg>

                  For SVG -> pdf, I use batik. It works great! If it is an option, you
                  might want to use that.

                  Mark: I can imagine it is much more elegant, faster and more reliable to
                  use xslt, if I just knew how...

                  Raoul
                • jophof007
                  Building complex logic in XSLT is very hard to do. Some if else is possible but not recursion for example sometimes needed for complex algorithms. John
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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                    Building complex logic in XSLT is very hard to do. Some if else is
                    possible but not recursion for example sometimes needed for complex
                    algorithms.

                    John
                    --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...> wrote:
                    > Yeah i'd be using .NET. I'm not sure what XSLT is but i'm going to
                    > look into it right now...The database is pretty simple but the
                    > drawing needs to have some logic to it so that wires don't cross on
                    > the schematic etc.
                    >
                    > The database will just be a from-connector #, from-pin #, to-
                    > connector #, to-pin # and some wire gauge/type for each.
                    >
                    > Chris
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "William McKenzie" <bill@c...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be
                    > to find
                    > > something like 'kode' (part of debian linux, I believe) that would
                    > generate
                    > > c++ classes or templates from the RelaxNG schema for svg. Those
                    > classes
                    > > could then be used to generate SVG objects. If you are in the .NET
                    > > environment, you might want to consider using ADO.NET to get your
                    > database
                    > > objects as XML, and then using XSLT to transform them into SVG.
                    > Really
                    > > fairly flexible and elegant, if you can deal with XSLT.
                    > >
                    > > ~Bill
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-
                    > developers@yahoogroups.com]
                    > > On Behalf Of Chris Serio
                    > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:47 AM
                    > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer
                    > >
                    > > Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find a high level API with
                    > basic
                    > > functions built into it like "DrawColoredRectangle
                    > > (x,y,len,width,color)"
                    > >
                    > > There's a very near deadline on this project so i'm trying to get a
                    > > library with the most comprehensive API i can.
                    > >
                    > > Chris
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Holger Will <holger@t...>
                    > > wrote:
                    > > > Chris Serio schrieb:
                    > > >
                    > > > > Hey all,
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it
                    > to
                    > > > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                    > > > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images
                    > will
                    > > be
                    > > > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret
                    > some
                    > > data
                    > > > > in a database.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
                    > > have
                    > > > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
                    > > routings.
                    > > > > >From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is
                    > there
                    > > an
                    > > > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                    > > > > Chris
                    > > >
                    > > > Hi Chris
                    > > >
                    > > > i dont know any c/c++ , but as svg is just plain simple xml, you
                    > > should
                    > > > be able to build your svgs with any xml lib.
                    > > > for more advanced features including rendering, and rendering to
                    > > pdf see:
                    > > > http://cairographics.org/introduction
                    > > > and
                    > > > http://cairographics.org/libsvg
                    > > >
                    > > > or if you could use Java, there is the Apache Batik project,
                    > which
                    > > is
                    > > > the most complete open source SVG implementation.
                    > > > http://xml.apache.org/batik/
                    > > >
                    > > > and if you are on Linux have a look at
                    > > > http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/
                    > > >
                    > > > or if you plan to have a GUI , and want that to be portable, you
                    > > migth
                    > > > as well think of building a XUL app, using mozilla svg.
                    > > > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/
                    > > > http://www.xulplanet.com/
                    > > >
                    > > > as i said i dont know c/c++ ,
                    > > > hope it helps anyways
                    > > > Holger
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > -----
                    > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                    > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    > > -or-
                    > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                    > my
                    > > membership"
                    > > ----
                    > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  • William McKenzie
                    Actually, you can do recursion, but overall I would agree that if you want to use some sort of layout logic XSLT is going to be a PITA at best. One
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
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                      Actually, you can do recursion, but overall I would agree that if you want
                      to use some sort of layout logic XSLT is going to be a PITA at best. One
                      half-hearted suggestion: if you're a really experience c++ programmer,
                      rolling a quick command-line java program wouldn't be all that figure out,
                      and you could use the batik library to do it. The code at the end is a very
                      simple example from the batik site (http://xml.apache.org/batik) that
                      generates a rectangle. Other than getting the java sdk and a build
                      environment like ant, you could be up and running in minutes.

                      If you can't stand the java, I don't know of anything like this that exists
                      for c++. Since you seem to only need a very few primitives, I would
                      recommend simply creating a small utility class that carries around either a
                      System.Xml.XmlDocument or a StringBuilder class and has a few methods to
                      create the primitives you need.

                      /////////////////// Sample Batik Code /////////////////////////
                      import java.awt.Rectangle;
                      import java.awt.Graphics2D;
                      import java.awt.Color;
                      import java.io.Writer;
                      import java.io.OutputStreamWriter;
                      import java.io.IOException;
                      import org.apache.batik.svggen.SVGGraphics2D;
                      import org.apache.batik.dom.GenericDOMImplementation;
                      import org.w3c.dom.Document;
                      import org.w3c.dom.DOMImplementation;

                      public class TestSVGGen {

                      public void paint(Graphics2D g2d) {
                      g2d.setPaint(Color.red);
                      g2d.fill(new Rectangle(10, 10, 100, 100));
                      }

                      public static void main(String [] args) throws IOException {

                      // Get a DOMImplementation
                      DOMImplementation domImpl =
                      GenericDOMImplementation.getDOMImplementation();

                      // Create an instance of org.w3c.dom.Document
                      Document document = domImpl.createDocument(null, "svg", null);

                      // Create an instance of the SVG Generator
                      SVGGraphics2D svgGenerator = new SVGGraphics2D(document);

                      // Ask the test to render into the SVG Graphics2D implementation
                      TestSVGGen test = new TestSVGGen();
                      test.paint(svgGenerator);

                      // Finally, stream out SVG to the standard output using UTF-8
                      // character to byte encoding
                      boolean useCSS = true; // we want to use CSS style attribute
                      Writer out = new OutputStreamWriter(System.out, "UTF-8");
                      svgGenerator.stream(out, useCSS);
                      }
                      }

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
                      On Behalf Of jophof007
                      Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:09 PM
                      To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer

                      Building complex logic in XSLT is very hard to do. Some if else is
                      possible but not recursion for example sometimes needed for complex
                      algorithms.

                      John
                      --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...> wrote:
                      > Yeah i'd be using .NET. I'm not sure what XSLT is but i'm going to
                      > look into it right now...The database is pretty simple but the
                      > drawing needs to have some logic to it so that wires don't cross on
                      > the schematic etc.
                      >
                      > The database will just be a from-connector #, from-pin #, to-
                      > connector #, to-pin # and some wire gauge/type for each.
                      >
                      > Chris
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "William McKenzie" <bill@c...>
                      > wrote:
                      > > What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be
                      > to find
                      > > something like 'kode' (part of debian linux, I believe) that would
                      > generate
                      > > c++ classes or templates from the RelaxNG schema for svg. Those
                      > classes
                      > > could then be used to generate SVG objects. If you are in the .NET
                      > > environment, you might want to consider using ADO.NET to get your
                      > database
                      > > objects as XML, and then using XSLT to transform them into SVG.
                      > Really
                      > > fairly flexible and elegant, if you can deal with XSLT.
                      > >
                      > > ~Bill
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-
                      > developers@yahoogroups.com]
                      > > On Behalf Of Chris Serio
                      > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:47 AM
                      > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer
                      > >
                      > > Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find a high level API with
                      > basic
                      > > functions built into it like "DrawColoredRectangle
                      > > (x,y,len,width,color)"
                      > >
                      > > There's a very near deadline on this project so i'm trying to get a
                      > > library with the most comprehensive API i can.
                      > >
                      > > Chris
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Holger Will <holger@t...>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > > Chris Serio schrieb:
                      > > >
                      > > > > Hey all,
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it
                      > to
                      > > > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                      > > > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images
                      > will
                      > > be
                      > > > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret
                      > some
                      > > data
                      > > > > in a database.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
                      > > have
                      > > > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
                      > > routings.
                      > > > > >From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is
                      > there
                      > > an
                      > > > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                      > > > > Chris
                      > > >
                      > > > Hi Chris
                      > > >
                      > > > i dont know any c/c++ , but as svg is just plain simple xml, you
                      > > should
                      > > > be able to build your svgs with any xml lib.
                      > > > for more advanced features including rendering, and rendering to
                      > > pdf see:
                      > > > http://cairographics.org/introduction
                      > > > and
                      > > > http://cairographics.org/libsvg
                      > > >
                      > > > or if you could use Java, there is the Apache Batik project,
                      > which
                      > > is
                      > > > the most complete open source SVG implementation.
                      > > > http://xml.apache.org/batik/
                      > > >
                      > > > and if you are on Linux have a look at
                      > > > http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/
                      > > >
                      > > > or if you plan to have a GUI , and want that to be portable, you
                      > > migth
                      > > > as well think of building a XUL app, using mozilla svg.
                      > > > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/
                      > > > http://www.xulplanet.com/
                      > > >
                      > > > as i said i dont know c/c++ ,
                      > > > hope it helps anyways
                      > > > Holger
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > -----
                      > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                      > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      > > -or-
                      > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                      > my
                      > > membership"
                      > > ----
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links






                      -----
                      To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      -or-
                      visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my
                      membership"
                      ----
                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                    • jophof007
                      Hi, The javascript engine have the same capabilities as C++ program (despite I/O stuff) so you can make a program that runs in a viewer or in your browser.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi,

                        The javascript engine have the same capabilities as C++ program
                        (despite I/O stuff) so you can make a program that runs in a viewer or
                        in your browser.

                        John
                        --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "William McKenzie" <bill@c...>
                        wrote:
                        > Actually, you can do recursion, but overall I would agree that if
                        you want
                        > to use some sort of layout logic XSLT is going to be a PITA at best.
                        One
                        > half-hearted suggestion: if you're a really experience c++ programmer,
                        > rolling a quick command-line java program wouldn't be all that
                        figure out,
                        > and you could use the batik library to do it. The code at the end
                        is a very
                        > simple example from the batik site (http://xml.apache.org/batik) that
                        > generates a rectangle. Other than getting the java sdk and a build
                        > environment like ant, you could be up and running in minutes.
                        >
                        > If you can't stand the java, I don't know of anything like this that
                        exists
                        > for c++. Since you seem to only need a very few primitives, I would
                        > recommend simply creating a small utility class that carries around
                        either a
                        > System.Xml.XmlDocument or a StringBuilder class and has a few methods to
                        > create the primitives you need.
                        >
                        > /////////////////// Sample Batik Code /////////////////////////
                        > import java.awt.Rectangle;
                        > import java.awt.Graphics2D;
                        > import java.awt.Color;
                        > import java.io.Writer;
                        > import java.io.OutputStreamWriter;
                        > import java.io.IOException;
                        > import org.apache.batik.svggen.SVGGraphics2D;
                        > import org.apache.batik.dom.GenericDOMImplementation;
                        > import org.w3c.dom.Document;
                        > import org.w3c.dom.DOMImplementation;
                        >
                        > public class TestSVGGen {
                        >
                        > public void paint(Graphics2D g2d) {
                        > g2d.setPaint(Color.red);
                        > g2d.fill(new Rectangle(10, 10, 100, 100));
                        > }
                        >
                        > public static void main(String [] args) throws IOException {
                        >
                        > // Get a DOMImplementation
                        > DOMImplementation domImpl =
                        > GenericDOMImplementation.getDOMImplementation();
                        >
                        > // Create an instance of org.w3c.dom.Document
                        > Document document = domImpl.createDocument(null, "svg", null);
                        >
                        > // Create an instance of the SVG Generator
                        > SVGGraphics2D svgGenerator = new SVGGraphics2D(document);
                        >
                        > // Ask the test to render into the SVG Graphics2D implementation
                        > TestSVGGen test = new TestSVGGen();
                        > test.paint(svgGenerator);
                        >
                        > // Finally, stream out SVG to the standard output using UTF-8
                        > // character to byte encoding
                        > boolean useCSS = true; // we want to use CSS style attribute
                        > Writer out = new OutputStreamWriter(System.out, "UTF-8");
                        > svgGenerator.stream(out, useCSS);
                        > }
                        > }
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com]
                        > On Behalf Of jophof007
                        > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 2:09 PM
                        > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer
                        >
                        > Building complex logic in XSLT is very hard to do. Some if else is
                        > possible but not recursion for example sometimes needed for complex
                        > algorithms.
                        >
                        > John
                        > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...> wrote:
                        > > Yeah i'd be using .NET. I'm not sure what XSLT is but i'm going to
                        > > look into it right now...The database is pretty simple but the
                        > > drawing needs to have some logic to it so that wires don't cross on
                        > > the schematic etc.
                        > >
                        > > The database will just be a from-connector #, from-pin #, to-
                        > > connector #, to-pin # and some wire gauge/type for each.
                        > >
                        > > Chris
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "William McKenzie" <bill@c...>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > > What sort of c/c++ environment are you using? One option would be
                        > > to find
                        > > > something like 'kode' (part of debian linux, I believe) that would
                        > > generate
                        > > > c++ classes or templates from the RelaxNG schema for svg. Those
                        > > classes
                        > > > could then be used to generate SVG objects. If you are in the .NET
                        > > > environment, you might want to consider using ADO.NET to get your
                        > > database
                        > > > objects as XML, and then using XSLT to transform them into SVG.
                        > > Really
                        > > > fairly flexible and elegant, if you can deal with XSLT.
                        > > >
                        > > > ~Bill
                        > > >
                        > > > -----Original Message-----
                        > > > From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com [mailto:svg-
                        > > developers@yahoogroups.com]
                        > > > On Behalf Of Chris Serio
                        > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 11:47 AM
                        > > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer
                        > > >
                        > > > Thanks for the info. I was hoping to find a high level API with
                        > > basic
                        > > > functions built into it like "DrawColoredRectangle
                        > > > (x,y,len,width,color)"
                        > > >
                        > > > There's a very near deadline on this project so i'm trying to get a
                        > > > library with the most comprehensive API i can.
                        > > >
                        > > > Chris
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, Holger Will <holger@t...>
                        > > > wrote:
                        > > > > Chris Serio schrieb:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > > Hey all,
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it
                        > > to
                        > > > > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                        > > > > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images
                        > > will
                        > > > be
                        > > > > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret
                        > > some
                        > > > data
                        > > > > > in a database.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
                        > > > have
                        > > > > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
                        > > > routings.
                        > > > > > >From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is
                        > > there
                        > > > an
                        > > > > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                        > > > > > Chris
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Hi Chris
                        > > > >
                        > > > > i dont know any c/c++ , but as svg is just plain simple xml, you
                        > > > should
                        > > > > be able to build your svgs with any xml lib.
                        > > > > for more advanced features including rendering, and rendering to
                        > > > pdf see:
                        > > > > http://cairographics.org/introduction
                        > > > > and
                        > > > > http://cairographics.org/libsvg
                        > > > >
                        > > > > or if you could use Java, there is the Apache Batik project,
                        > > which
                        > > > is
                        > > > > the most complete open source SVG implementation.
                        > > > > http://xml.apache.org/batik/
                        > > > >
                        > > > > and if you are on Linux have a look at
                        > > > > http://librsvg.sourceforge.net/
                        > > > >
                        > > > > or if you plan to have a GUI , and want that to be portable, you
                        > > > migth
                        > > > > as well think of building a XUL app, using mozilla svg.
                        > > > > http://www.mozilla.org/projects/svg/
                        > > > > http://www.xulplanet.com/
                        > > > >
                        > > > > as i said i dont know c/c++ ,
                        > > > > hope it helps anyways
                        > > > > Holger
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > -----
                        > > > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-
                        > > unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > > > -or-
                        > > > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit
                        > > my
                        > > > membership"
                        > > > ----
                        > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > -----
                        > To unsubscribe send a message to:
                        svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                        > -or-
                        > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my
                        > membership"
                        > ----
                        > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      • Alastair Fettes
                        Hi Chris, If my memory serves me correctly Visio should be able to handle most SVG elements with minor exceptions. Let me point you to the article Richard See
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Hi Chris,

                          If my memory serves me correctly Visio should be able to handle most
                          SVG elements with minor exceptions. Let me point you to the article
                          Richard See wrote about Visio's support of SVG at the SVG Open 2003.

                          http://www.svgopen.org/2003/papers/SVG_Scenarios_using_Microsoft_Office_Visio_2003/

                          Another word to the wise. I was one of the QA on this project and
                          there are tricks to the round trip capabilities of Visio that you can
                          play off of if you are familiar with XML Namespaces. Try creating a
                          diagram with your connections in Visio, then save as svg. When you
                          look at the output SVG document you will notice a whole bunch of extra
                          attributes and data under a microsoft namespace. These of course are
                          trivial to remove with an XSLT. However, you could take cues from
                          these knowing that they were put in such that a visio document could
                          be round-tripped. The round tripping feature of Visio works quite
                          well. One of the few things you will not get from a round trip is
                          equations (if I remember correctly - it was about 3 years ago now).

                          Anyways, check out that paper and give me a shout if you have any
                          problems.

                          Cheers,
                          Alastair
                          http://spark.sourceforge.net

                          --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...> wrote:
                          > Hey all,
                          >
                          > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
                          > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                          > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will be
                          > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some data
                          > in a database.
                          >
                          > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will have
                          > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin routings.
                          > From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                          >
                          > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there an
                          > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                          >
                          > Thanks for any suggestions,
                          > Chris
                        • Alastair Fettes
                          Hi Chris, Just a followup. I read your most recent posts just a few minutes ago *after* posting the message below. Sorry about that - should have read back a
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Chris,

                            Just a followup. I read your most recent posts just a few minutes ago
                            *after* posting the message below. Sorry about that - should have
                            read back a bit.

                            Personally, I generate SVG using the MSXML DOM in VC++ 6.0. I created
                            my own C++ based SVG API for generating my output. If you're using
                            .Net it would be trivial to use the DOM methods to create elements,
                            add attributes and append elements to others. I doubt XSLT is the
                            right solution (though I do love using XSLT for everything).

                            Just my two cents.

                            Cheers,
                            Alastair

                            --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Alastair Fettes"
                            <afettes@g...> wrote:
                            > Hi Chris,
                            >
                            > If my memory serves me correctly Visio should be able to handle most
                            > SVG elements with minor exceptions. Let me point you to the article
                            > Richard See wrote about Visio's support of SVG at the SVG Open 2003.
                            >
                            >
                            http://www.svgopen.org/2003/papers/SVG_Scenarios_using_Microsoft_Office_Visio_2003/
                            >
                            > Another word to the wise. I was one of the QA on this project and
                            > there are tricks to the round trip capabilities of Visio that you can
                            > play off of if you are familiar with XML Namespaces. Try creating a
                            > diagram with your connections in Visio, then save as svg. When you
                            > look at the output SVG document you will notice a whole bunch of extra
                            > attributes and data under a microsoft namespace. These of course are
                            > trivial to remove with an XSLT. However, you could take cues from
                            > these knowing that they were put in such that a visio document could
                            > be round-tripped. The round tripping feature of Visio works quite
                            > well. One of the few things you will not get from a round trip is
                            > equations (if I remember correctly - it was about 3 years ago now).
                            >
                            > Anyways, check out that paper and give me a shout if you have any
                            > problems.
                            >
                            > Cheers,
                            > Alastair
                            > http://spark.sourceforge.net
                            >
                            > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...> wrote:
                            > > Hey all,
                            > >
                            > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
                            > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                            > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images will be
                            > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some data
                            > > in a database.
                            > >
                            > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will have
                            > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin routings.
                            > > From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                            > >
                            > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is there an
                            > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                            > >
                            > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                            > > Chris
                          • Chris Serio
                            Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions. I think MSXML DOM is going to be my solution but Java will be my backup. I did some Java programming before i
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 2, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Thanks again to everyone for your suggestions. I think MSXML DOM is
                              going to be my solution but Java will be my backup. I did some Java
                              programming before i learned C++ and it was fine but i'd like to stick
                              with C++ if i can.

                              Chris

                              --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Alastair Fettes"
                              <afettes@g...> wrote:
                              > Hi Chris,
                              >
                              > Just a followup. I read your most recent posts just a few minutes ago
                              > *after* posting the message below. Sorry about that - should have
                              > read back a bit.
                              >
                              > Personally, I generate SVG using the MSXML DOM in VC++ 6.0. I created
                              > my own C++ based SVG API for generating my output. If you're using
                              > .Net it would be trivial to use the DOM methods to create elements,
                              > add attributes and append elements to others. I doubt XSLT is the
                              > right solution (though I do love using XSLT for everything).
                              >
                              > Just my two cents.
                              >
                              > Cheers,
                              > Alastair
                              >
                              > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Alastair Fettes"
                              > <afettes@g...> wrote:
                              > > Hi Chris,
                              > >
                              > > If my memory serves me correctly Visio should be able to handle most
                              > > SVG elements with minor exceptions. Let me point you to the article
                              > > Richard See wrote about Visio's support of SVG at the SVG Open 2003.
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              http://www.svgopen.org/2003/papers/SVG_Scenarios_using_Microsoft_Office_Visio_2003/
                              > >
                              > > Another word to the wise. I was one of the QA on this project and
                              > > there are tricks to the round trip capabilities of Visio that you can
                              > > play off of if you are familiar with XML Namespaces. Try creating a
                              > > diagram with your connections in Visio, then save as svg. When you
                              > > look at the output SVG document you will notice a whole bunch of extra
                              > > attributes and data under a microsoft namespace. These of course are
                              > > trivial to remove with an XSLT. However, you could take cues from
                              > > these knowing that they were put in such that a visio document could
                              > > be round-tripped. The round tripping feature of Visio works quite
                              > > well. One of the few things you will not get from a round trip is
                              > > equations (if I remember correctly - it was about 3 years ago now).
                              > >
                              > > Anyways, check out that paper and give me a shout if you have any
                              > > problems.
                              > >
                              > > Cheers,
                              > > Alastair
                              > > http://spark.sourceforge.net
                              > >
                              > > --- In svg-developers@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Serio" <chris@c...>
                              wrote:
                              > > > Hey all,
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm new to SVG. I've never used it before but i want to use it to
                              > > > generate images that can be used in Visio (which can open SVG),
                              > > > possibly convert to PDF and also view on the web. The images
                              will be
                              > > > generated by a program i want to write which will interpret some
                              data
                              > > > in a database.
                              > > >
                              > > > Basically i'm making schematics for a wiring diagram and i will
                              have
                              > > > connector types saved in a database as well as to/from pin
                              routings.
                              > > > From this data i want to generate the schematic using SVG.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm proficient in C/C++ but i'm not sure where to begin. Is
                              there an
                              > > > SVG SDK for C/C++ out there somewhere?
                              > > >
                              > > > Thanks for any suggestions,
                              > > > Chris
                            • Chris Peto
                              Hi, Just Use Apache Foreign Object Processor (FOP) for svg- pdf, it works great and has svg examples with it. Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Regards Chris Peto
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 3, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi,

                                Just Use Apache Foreign Object Processor (FOP) for svg->pdf, it works
                                great and has svg examples with it.

                                Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Regards
                                Chris Peto
                                Freelance System Development, Resource Solutions
                                Founding Partner, Vectoreal
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                                Tel:+49(0) 6103 80 21 98
                                <http://www.resource-solutions.de/> http://www.resource-solutions.de
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                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                                [mailto:svg-developers@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Raoul van Putten
                                Sent: Dienstag, 2. August 2005 20:49
                                To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: [svg-developers] Re: Newbie SVG Developer


                                Chris Serio wrote:
                                > Alot of good suggestions here guys but the bottom line is this...
                                >
                                > I'm very fluent in C/C++ so I'm more comfortable doing something
                                > overkill but fast than learning something new. I can't take the risk
                                > in investing my limited amount of time to learning something new
                                > unless i was sure that it would be a time saver. I'd prefer to stick
                                > with something that i can judge the required amount of effort with.

                                Just go and grab the next SVG book, that's my suggestion. And forget
                                Javascript, you most probably don't even need it _for this task_.

                                SVG is as easy as

                                <some
                                ... ununderstandable
                                ... preamble>
                                <svg>
                                <line x1="0" y1="0" x2="200" y2="200" />
                                <rect ... />
                                ...
                                </svg>

                                For SVG -> pdf, I use batik. It works great! If it is an option, you
                                might want to use that.

                                Mark: I can imagine it is much more elegant, faster and more reliable to

                                use xslt, if I just knew how...

                                Raoul



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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Peter Thompson
                                Since you don t know SVG, I suggest that you try hand coding a few SVG files that contain a subset of the type of data/display you want. In your case, a few
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 7, 2005
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Since you don't know SVG, I suggest that you try hand coding a few SVG files that contain a subset of the type of data/display you want. In your case, a few simple schematics will do. I suggest this because you need to understand what your program is supposed to produce if you are going to write that code.

                                  You can write a C/C++ program that generates SVG using file I/O. As you learn more about what you are trying to do, you may find needs/uses for the libraries suggested by Holger.



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