Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards

Expand Messages
  • Andrei Rubina Thomaz
    the next big browser being done by Adobe? It is not a bad idea... ... De: Antoine Quint, Knowscape:// Para:
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 2, 2001
      the next big browser being done by Adobe? It is not a bad idea...

      -----Mensagem original-----
      De: Antoine Quint, Knowscape:// <antoine@...>
      Para: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
      Data: Sexta-feira, 30 de Março de 2001 20:39
      Assunto: RE: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards


      >
      >> Again, behaviours allow one to implement inline SVG (SVG
      >> inside HTML). With fair amount of extra work, HTML inside
      >> SVG might be possible too (I have not seen such examples yet).
      >> Unfortunately, this would work only in IE and only
      >> on Windows.
      >
      >I think the best thing that could happen is for Adobe to implement XHTML
      basic
      >(http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/) inside their viewer for use inside the
      <foreignObject>
      >element. This would be excellent since it would allow developers to have
      neat text
      >facilities using XHTML basic and awesome graphics and animation
      possibilities with the
      >great SVG implementation Adobe has provided us with so far. XHTML basic is
      a stripped-down
      >version of XHTML and was originally developed for mobile devices. But I
      think it is also
      >exactly the kind of structural and layout features one would need for text.
      You can see
      >the list of XHTML elements included in XHTML basic at
      >http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-basic/#s_xhtmlmodules . The Adobe viewer could
      maybe then
      >become a standalone app and/or a plug-in with a robust and compliant DOM,
      good CSS and in
      >the end the ultimate front-end tool. Bearing in mind there is going to be a
      joint release
      >of Adobe's SVG viewer and the next Real Player we could wish for some nice
      SMIL 2
      >integration as Real Networks are commited to support SMIL 2 in their next
      releases.
      >
      >antoine
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • Mike Kidson
      Peter, Might behaviours overcome the limitation you identified previously for the ActiveX plug-in under IE5.5 of limiting resolution to one value for both
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 2, 2001
        Peter,

        Might behaviours overcome the limitation you identified previously
        for the ActiveX plug-in under IE5.5 of limiting resolution to one value
        for both screen and printer?

        Mike


        To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
        From: "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@...>
        Date sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:48:13 -0000
        Send reply to: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards

        - - - - -

        >
        > Well, I said that we will stick with plug-ins, but we are
        > going to investigate behaviours as well. Technically, we can
        > support both. The questions are if it worth the effort,
        > how tight integration is possible, how much extra overhead
        > it takes and how buggy it is.
        >
        > Again, behaviours allow one to implement inline SVG (SVG
        > inside HTML). With fair amount of extra work, HTML inside
        > SVG might be possible too (I have not seen such examples yet).
        > Unfortunately, this would work only in IE and only
        > on Windows.
        >
        > Still, as I said, we are going to investigate it, as it seems
        > that it is a very relevant technology.
        >
        > Peter
        >
      • Tobias Reif
        I m sure it would be a great browser. Tobi ... [...] XHTML basic and awesome graphics ... ===== Tobias Reif http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 2, 2001
          I'm sure it would be a great browser.

          Tobi

          --- Andrei Rubina Thomaz <andrei@...> wrote:
          > the next big browser being done by Adobe? It is not
          > a bad idea...

          > <antoine@...>
          [...] XHTML basic and awesome graphics
          > and animation
          > possibilities with the
          > >great SVG implementation Adobe has provided us with
          > so far. [...] DOM,
          > good CSS [...]
          > SMIL 2

          =====
          Tobias Reif
          http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
          http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text
        • Dylan
          ... I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough to include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be considered bloat. -Dylan
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 3, 2001
            --- In svg-developers@y..., goessner@m... wrote:
            > i want to link the community to this article about new ie6 and web
            > standards ..
            > http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/dude03262001.asp
            >
            > i consider remarkable here, what dave massy says:
            >
            > "Microsoft follows the philosophy that this content is
            > not applicable to everyone and could be a heavy burden to pay every
            > time you fired up your Web browser. Microsoft therefore provides the
            > hooks through the component technology of Behaviors introduced in
            > Internet Explorer 5 so others can supply this functionality. This
            > allows specialists in this area to supply a Math rendering component
            > that integrates very tightly with an HTML document."

            I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough to
            include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be considered
            bloat.

            -Dylan Schiemann
          • Peter Sorotokin
            ... value ... No, I don t think so. Peter
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 3, 2001
              --- In svg-developers@y..., "Mike Kidson" <adobe@u...> wrote:
              > Peter,
              >
              > Might behaviours overcome the limitation you identified previously
              > for the ActiveX plug-in under IE5.5 of limiting resolution to one
              value
              > for both screen and printer?
              >
              > Mike

              No, I don't think so.

              Peter

              >
              >
              > To: svg-developers@y...
              > From: "Peter Sorotokin" <sorotokin@y...>
              > Date sent: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 19:48:13 -0000
              > Send reply to: svg-developers@y...
              > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
              >
              > - - - - -
              >
              > >
              > > Well, I said that we will stick with plug-ins, but we are
              > > going to investigate behaviours as well. Technically, we can
              > > support both. The questions are if it worth the effort,
              > > how tight integration is possible, how much extra overhead
              > > it takes and how buggy it is.
              > >
              > > Again, behaviours allow one to implement inline SVG (SVG
              > > inside HTML). With fair amount of extra work, HTML inside
              > > SVG might be possible too (I have not seen such examples yet).
              > > Unfortunately, this would work only in IE and only
              > > on Windows.
              > >
              > > Still, as I said, we are going to investigate it, as it seems
              > > that it is a very relevant technology.
              > >
              > > Peter
              > >
            • Duncanson, Ian (Ex AS01)
              VML is not part of IE5 - it is a rendering behavior. An SVG rendering behavior could be developed in exactly the same way that Microsoft developed a
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 3, 2001
                VML is not "part" of IE5 - it is a rendering behavior. An SVG rendering
                behavior could be developed in exactly the same way that Microsoft developed
                a rendering behavior for VML.

                Ian

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Dylan [mailto:dylans@...]
                Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:25 AM
                To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards


                --- In svg-developers@y..., goessner@m... wrote:
                > i want to link the community to this article about new ie6 and web
                > standards ..
                > http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/dude03262001.asp
                >
                > i consider remarkable here, what dave massy says:
                >
                > "Microsoft follows the philosophy that this content is
                > not applicable to everyone and could be a heavy burden to pay every
                > time you fired up your Web browser. Microsoft therefore provides the
                > hooks through the component technology of Behaviors introduced in
                > Internet Explorer 5 so others can supply this functionality. This
                > allows specialists in this area to supply a Math rendering component
                > that integrates very tightly with an HTML document."

                I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough to
                include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be considered
                bloat.

                -Dylan Schiemann





                Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • Mike Kidson
                Is anyone here using VML? Or do you know of anyone who uses VML? If so, what for, and how? Mike Kidson To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                Message 7 of 22 , Apr 3, 2001
                  Is anyone here using VML? Or do you know of anyone who uses
                  VML?

                  If so, what for, and how?

                  Mike Kidson


                  To: "'svg-developers@yahoogroups.com'" <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
                  From: "Duncanson, Ian (Ex AS01)" <ian.duncanson@...>
                  Date sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:53:37 +1000
                  Send reply to: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: RE: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards

                  > VML is not "part" of IE5 - it is a rendering behavior. An SVG rendering
                  > behavior could be developed in exactly the same way that Microsoft developed
                  > a rendering behavior for VML.
                  >
                  > Ian
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Dylan [mailto:dylans@...]
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:25 AM
                  > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In svg-developers@y..., goessner@m... wrote:
                  > > i want to link the community to this article about new ie6 and web
                  > > standards ..
                  > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/dude03262001.asp
                  > >
                  > > i consider remarkable here, what dave massy says:
                  > >
                  > > "Microsoft follows the philosophy that this content is
                  > > not applicable to everyone and could be a heavy burden to pay every
                  > > time you fired up your Web browser. Microsoft therefore provides the
                  > > hooks through the component technology of Behaviors introduced in
                  > > Internet Explorer 5 so others can supply this functionality. This
                  > > allows specialists in this area to supply a Math rendering component
                  > > that integrates very tightly with an HTML document."
                  >
                  > I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough to
                  > include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be considered
                  > bloat.
                  >
                  > -Dylan Schiemann
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                • Lance Dyas
                  My search on the web for VML yielded so little results(I think I found one non microsoft web page... that I figured it was a dead horse. SVG on the otherhand,
                  Message 8 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                    My search on the web for VML yielded so little results(I think
                    I found one non microsoft web page... that I figured it was a
                    dead horse. SVG on the otherhand, is alive if not thriving.
                    And ofcourse the defacto standard of flash, one cant help
                    but trip over without looking.

                    Mike Kidson wrote:
                    >
                    > Is anyone here using VML? Or do you know of anyone who uses
                    > VML?
                    >
                    > If so, what for, and how?
                    >
                    > Mike Kidson
                    >
                    > To: "'svg-developers@yahoogroups.com'"
                    > <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
                    > From: "Duncanson, Ian (Ex AS01)"
                    > <ian.duncanson@...>
                    > Date sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:53:37 +1000
                    > Send reply to: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: RE: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
                    >
                    > > VML is not "part" of IE5 - it is a rendering behavior. An SVG
                    > rendering
                    > > behavior could be developed in exactly the same way that Microsoft
                    > developed
                    > > a rendering behavior for VML.
                    > >
                    > > Ian
                    > >
                    > > -----Original Message-----
                    > > From: Dylan [mailto:dylans@...]
                    > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:25 AM
                    > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                    > > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In svg-developers@y..., goessner@m... wrote:
                    > > > i want to link the community to this article about new ie6 and web
                    >
                    > > > standards ..
                    > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/dude03262001.asp
                    > > >
                    > > > i consider remarkable here, what dave massy says:
                    > > >
                    > > > "Microsoft follows the philosophy that this content is
                    > > > not applicable to everyone and could be a heavy burden to pay
                    > every
                    > > > time you fired up your Web browser. Microsoft therefore provides
                    > the
                    > > > hooks through the component technology of Behaviors introduced in
                    > > > Internet Explorer 5 so others can supply this functionality. This
                    > > > allows specialists in this area to supply a Math rendering
                    > component
                    > > > that integrates very tightly with an HTML document."
                    > >
                    > > I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough
                    > to
                    > > include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be
                    > considered
                    > > bloat.
                    > >
                    > > -Dylan Schiemann
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                    > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                    > [Click Here to Find Software Faster]
                    > Click Here to Find Software Faster
                    >
                    >
                    > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                    --
                    *****************************************************************
                    Dragonlord Garthans - Decision Driven Gaming - Role Play center
                    http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay
                    Want custom art for your RPG characters?
                    *****************************************************************
                  • Lance Dyas
                    I almost used it till I realized i could do what minimal I needed with dynamic html, wheeew close call. Yep a dead horse, SVG being obvious for the long haul
                    Message 9 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                      I almost used it till I realized i could do what minimal I
                      needed with dynamic html, wheeew close call. Yep a dead horse,
                      SVG being obvious for the long haul and for far more purposes
                      than minimal.

                      errr.. ok did that make sense?

                      Mike Kidson wrote:
                      >
                      > Is anyone here using VML? Or do you know of anyone who uses
                      > VML?
                      >
                      > If so, what for, and how?
                      >
                      > Mike Kidson
                      >
                      > To: "'svg-developers@yahoogroups.com'"
                      > <svg-developers@yahoogroups.com>
                      > From: "Duncanson, Ian (Ex AS01)"
                      > <ian.duncanson@...>
                      > Date sent: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 08:53:37 +1000
                      > Send reply to: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: RE: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
                      >
                      > > VML is not "part" of IE5 - it is a rendering behavior. An SVG
                      > rendering
                      > > behavior could be developed in exactly the same way that Microsoft
                      > developed
                      > > a rendering behavior for VML.
                      > >
                      > > Ian
                      > >
                      > > -----Original Message-----
                      > > From: Dylan [mailto:dylans@...]
                      > > Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 12:25 AM
                      > > To: svg-developers@yahoogroups.com
                      > > Subject: [svg-developers] Re: ie6 & standards
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In svg-developers@y..., goessner@m... wrote:
                      > > > i want to link the community to this article about new ie6 and web
                      >
                      > > > standards ..
                      > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/voices/dude03262001.asp
                      > > >
                      > > > i consider remarkable here, what dave massy says:
                      > > >
                      > > > "Microsoft follows the philosophy that this content is
                      > > > not applicable to everyone and could be a heavy burden to pay
                      > every
                      > > > time you fired up your Web browser. Microsoft therefore provides
                      > the
                      > > > hooks through the component technology of Behaviors introduced in
                      > > > Internet Explorer 5 so others can supply this functionality. This
                      > > > allows specialists in this area to supply a Math rendering
                      > component
                      > > > that integrates very tightly with an HTML document."
                      > >
                      > > I would think that since Microsoft considered VML important enough
                      > to
                      > > include in IE5, that adding SVG to the browser would not be
                      > considered
                      > > bloat.
                      > >
                      > > -Dylan Schiemann
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > [Click Here to Find Software Faster]
                      > Click Here to Find Software Faster
                      >
                      >
                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                      --
                      *****************************************************************
                      Dragonlord Garthans - Decision Driven Gaming - Role Play center
                      http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay
                      Want custom art for your RPG characters?
                      *****************************************************************
                    • Robin Berjon
                      ... I think map.net does for its IE version (the rest uses SVG). -- robin b. In which level of metalanguage are you now speaking?
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                        At 16:26 04/04/2001 +1000, Mike Kidson wrote:
                        >Is anyone here using VML? Or do you know of anyone who uses
                        >VML?

                        I think map.net does for its IE version (the rest uses SVG).

                        -- robin b.
                        In which level of metalanguage are you now speaking?
                      • Tobias Reif
                        ... [...]map.net [...](the rest ... URL? I only saw VML . ===== Tobias Reif http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                          --- Robin Berjon <robin@...> wrote:
                          [...]map.net [...](the rest
                          > uses SVG).

                          URL? I only saw VML .

                          =====
                          Tobias Reif
                          http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm

                          __________________________________________________
                          Do You Yahoo!?
                          Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
                          http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                        • Lance Dyas
                          In ns4.x they dispence SVG in ie they send vml and they thumb noses at ns6 ... -- ***************************************************************** Dragonlord
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                            In ns4.x they dispence SVG in ie they send vml and
                            they thumb noses at ns6

                            Tobias Reif wrote:
                            >
                            > --- Robin Berjon <robin@...> wrote:
                            > [...]map.net [...](the rest
                            > > uses SVG).
                            >
                            > URL? I only saw VML .
                            >
                            > =====
                            > Tobias Reif
                            > http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
                            > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                            >
                            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                            > [Click Here to Find Software Faster]
                            > Click Here to Find Software Faster
                            >
                            >
                            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                            --
                            *****************************************************************
                            Dragonlord Garthans - Decision Driven Gaming - Role Play center
                            http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay
                            Want custom art for your RPG characters?
                            *****************************************************************
                          • Robin Berjon
                            ... Yep that s it. I ve written to them several times to tell them that Opera and Mozilla actually work on their site (with the SVG version) and that their
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                              At 06:34 04/04/2001 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
                              >In ns4.x they dispence SVG in ie they send vml and
                              >they thumb noses at ns6

                              Yep that's it. I've written to them several times to tell them that Opera
                              and Mozilla actually work on their site (with the SVG version) and that
                              their browser sniffing is broken, they answered very cordially saying that
                              they'd take care of it but nothing happened.

                              A pity, it's really an interesting app.

                              -- robin b.
                              Don't panic.
                            • Lance Dyas
                              Opera works??????? for crying out loud what minimal dom has to be used for that to happen In opera you cannot for instance remove an element of the dom in
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                                Opera works??????? for crying out loud what minimal dom has to be used
                                for
                                that to happen In opera you cannot for instance remove an element of the
                                dom in order
                                to rewrite... alah dhtml no .innerHTML or removeChild... nothing
                                ... Oh yeah I get it everything is generated server side.

                                Robin Berjon wrote:
                                >
                                > At 06:34 04/04/2001 -0500, Lance Dyas wrote:
                                > >In ns4.x they dispence SVG in ie they send vml and
                                > >they thumb noses at ns6
                                >
                                > Yep that's it. I've written to them several times to tell them that
                                > Opera
                                > and Mozilla actually work on their site (with the SVG version) and
                                > that
                                > their browser sniffing is broken, they answered very cordially saying
                                > that
                                > they'd take care of it but nothing happened.
                                >
                                > A pity, it's really an interesting app.
                                >
                                > -- robin b.
                                > Don't panic.
                                >
                                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                > [Click Here to Find Software Faster]
                                > Click Here to Find Software Faster
                                >
                                >
                                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

                                --
                                *****************************************************************
                                Dragonlord Garthans - Decision Driven Gaming - Role Play center
                                http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay
                                Want custom art for your RPG characters?
                                *****************************************************************
                              • Tobias Reif
                                wow! I don t use the ODP so much; but it s cool that they use SVG. Tobi ... ===== Tobias Reif http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 4, 2001
                                  wow!
                                  I don't use the ODP so much; but it's cool that they
                                  use SVG.

                                  Tobi

                                  --- Lance Dyas <lancelot@...> wrote:
                                  > In ns4.x they dispence SVG in ie they send vml and
                                  > they thumb noses at ns6
                                  >
                                  > Tobias Reif wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > --- Robin Berjon <robin@...> wrote:
                                  > > [...]map.net [...](the rest
                                  > > > uses SVG).
                                  > >
                                  > > URL? I only saw VML .
                                  > >
                                  > > =====
                                  > > Tobias Reif
                                  > > http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm
                                  > >
                                  > > __________________________________________________
                                  > > Do You Yahoo!?
                                  > > Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
                                  > > http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                                  > >
                                  > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                                  > > [Click Here to Find Software Faster]
                                  > > Click Here to Find Software Faster
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
                                  > Terms of Service.
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  >
                                  *****************************************************************
                                  > Dragonlord Garthans - Decision Driven Gaming - Role
                                  > Play center
                                  > http://incolor.inetnebr.com/lancelot/roleplay
                                  > Want custom art for your RPG characters?
                                  >
                                  *****************************************************************
                                  >
                                  >


                                  =====
                                  Tobias Reif
                                  http://www.pinkjuice.com/myDigitalProfile.htm

                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
                                  http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.