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RANT ALERT: The future of SVG

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  • Rick Bullotta
    Quote: If you don t use Windows, you won t have all this cool software running on your machine. . That s your choice to make. People in the real world have
    Message 1 of 34 , Jul 17, 2003
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      Quote: "If you don't use Windows, you won't have all
      this cool software running on your machine.".

      That's your choice to make. People in the real world have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and college tuition to save for. As a result, many ISVs, ourselves included, choose to write most of our UI stuff for Windows platforms (and our server applications multiplatform). Those statistics that Gord points out tell all. Microsoft did (and does) an excellent job of embracing a large community of ISV's by providing low-cost development tools and application software, lots of technical information, and marketing support. That was/is integral to their success. Why could that even remotely be considered a bad thing?

      Our users consistently find that common configuration/installation tasks on non-Windows platforms are not intuitive, highly manual, and very error prone. Compare this to putting in a CD, answering a few questions, and being running 10 minutes later. Installation of a web server/servlet engine is a great example. After you've done it a dozen times, you might get it dialed in. But a typical "Joe End User" would only do it once. Which would mean frustration, lost time, and a poor experience.

      I'm *all* for competition in the desktop space, as there is plenty of room for improvement even with Microsoft and competition is a great way to make it happen - but there's a lot more to competing than adding a good looking GUI with cool icons. The administration aspects still need to be addressed so that an "average" or "below average" user can succeed with the platform. And, of course, ISV's need to be convinced that there is a market for "cool" things that they could build for the platform and that "someone" is marketing the platform and creating demand.

      I'm VERY disappointed that some moron at Sun rolled over a couple years ago and believed the BS that Java was not a good tool/platform for UI development, as that could have been the breakthrough moment. But they REALLY blew it, not really from a technology standpoint, but from a marketing/positioning standpoint. Sure, it established a foothold for Java in the enterprise space for back office app development, but threw away the broader opportunity.

      I hate that these types of issues always end up tied to economics, but in the hard cold "real" world, they always do anyway. Let's hope that a viable, vibrant industry builds up around SVG. And strong Windows platform support will be the primary impetus to gaining traction, not support on OS9 or Bob and Dave's Linux or Windows CE. Once the foothold has been established, then the growth will naturally spread.

      I just don't see SVG-based apps as enough of a step change to deliver "killer apps" that would drive/accelerate the growth of a new platform. Witness all of the work being done to deliver simple GUI elements in SVG. Great idea, worthy effort, but the cynic in me says "so what"? Does the world need another way to do a dropdown listbox? Is there some innate capability it would bring or some order of magnitude change in programmer productivity?

      All too often I find people (not only in software, but in life as well) trying to make either/or decisions, when the right approach might be "all of the above". I'm starting to really get off on a tangent here, so I'll wrap up for now... ;>

      Rant off.

      - Rick Bullotta
      CTO
      Lighthammer Software



      ---- Christian Kaiser <christian.kaiser@...> wrote:
      > Hi Gordon,
      >
      > >If you look at the stats, say from
      > >http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2003/May/os.php or
      > >http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp, the vast
      > >majority of people are using Windows
      >
      > You forget the user's view. If you don't use Windows, you won't have all
      > this cool software running on your machine. So you will switch to Windows...
      >
      > It's not the users who use Windows, it's the software industry who makes
      > use the users Windows. Never thought at that???
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Christian
      >
      >
      >
      > -----
      > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      > -or-
      > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership"
      > ----
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Rick Bullotta
      Quote: If you don t use Windows, you won t have all this cool software running on your machine. . That s your choice to make. People in the real world have
      Message 34 of 34 , Jul 17, 2003
      • 0 Attachment
        Quote: "If you don't use Windows, you won't have all
        this cool software running on your machine.".

        That's your choice to make. People in the real world have bills to pay, mouths to feed, and college tuition to save for. As a result, many ISVs, ourselves included, choose to write most of our UI stuff for Windows platforms (and our server applications multiplatform). Those statistics that Gord points out tell all. Microsoft did (and does) an excellent job of embracing a large community of ISV's by providing low-cost development tools and application software, lots of technical information, and marketing support. That was/is integral to their success. Why could that even remotely be considered a bad thing?

        Our users consistently find that common configuration/installation tasks on non-Windows platforms are not intuitive, highly manual, and very error prone. Compare this to putting in a CD, answering a few questions, and being running 10 minutes later. Installation of a web server/servlet engine is a great example. After you've done it a dozen times, you might get it dialed in. But a typical "Joe End User" would only do it once. Which would mean frustration, lost time, and a poor experience.

        I'm *all* for competition in the desktop space, as there is plenty of room for improvement even with Microsoft and competition is a great way to make it happen - but there's a lot more to competing than adding a good looking GUI with cool icons. The administration aspects still need to be addressed so that an "average" or "below average" user can succeed with the platform. And, of course, ISV's need to be convinced that there is a market for "cool" things that they could build for the platform and that "someone" is marketing the platform and creating demand.

        I'm VERY disappointed that some moron at Sun rolled over a couple years ago and believed the BS that Java was not a good tool/platform for UI development, as that could have been the breakthrough moment. But they REALLY blew it, not really from a technology standpoint, but from a marketing/positioning standpoint. Sure, it established a foothold for Java in the enterprise space for back office app development, but threw away the broader opportunity.

        I hate that these types of issues always end up tied to economics, but in the hard cold "real" world, they always do anyway. Let's hope that a viable, vibrant industry builds up around SVG. And strong Windows platform support will be the primary impetus to gaining traction, not support on OS9 or Bob and Dave's Linux or Windows CE. Once the foothold has been established, then the growth will naturally spread.

        I just don't see SVG-based apps as enough of a step change to deliver "killer apps" that would drive/accelerate the growth of a new platform. Witness all of the work being done to deliver simple GUI elements in SVG. Great idea, worthy effort, but the cynic in me says "so what"? Does the world need another way to do a dropdown listbox? Is there some innate capability it would bring or some order of magnitude change in programmer productivity?

        All too often I find people (not only in software, but in life as well) trying to make either/or decisions, when the right approach might be "all of the above". I'm starting to really get off on a tangent here, so I'll wrap up for now... ;>

        Rant off.

        - Rick Bullotta
        CTO
        Lighthammer Software



        ---- Christian Kaiser <christian.kaiser@...> wrote:
        > Hi Gordon,
        >
        > >If you look at the stats, say from
        > >http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2003/May/os.php or
        > >http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp, the vast
        > >majority of people are using Windows
        >
        > You forget the user's view. If you don't use Windows, you won't have all
        > this cool software running on your machine. So you will switch to Windows...
        >
        > It's not the users who use Windows, it's the software industry who makes
        > use the users Windows. Never thought at that???
        >
        > Cheers,
        > Christian
        >
        >
        >
        > -----
        > To unsubscribe send a message to: svg-developers-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > -or-
        > visit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers and click "edit my membership"
        > ----
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
        >
        >
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