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Re: [svg-developers] Re: Nice Flash application / MAPS

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  • Yosri Diab
    Eric ... You are right, in the existing Mapping market SVG and Flash are competing against the expensive old desktop Technology. But what about the individual
    Message 1 of 41 , Aug 1, 2002
      Eric
      >regarding mapping, there is no need to keep up
      > fight between Flash
      > and SVG, the real competition is between
      > great mapping software editors, whose server
      > "solutions" on the web
      > are incredibly expensive for very poor interactivity
      > and
      > fonctionnalities, and client formats like Flash or
      > SVG ;
      You are right, in the existing Mapping market SVG and
      Flash are competing
      against the expensive old desktop Technology.
      But what about the individual who wants to publish an
      intelligent map?
      Or a High School Geography teacher who want to prepare
      an interactive course and map? or ��
      This market is not served by anyone yet. I think SVG
      and Flash can fill this big gap.
      >there is a real need to invent a new cartographic
      > and pedagogical
      > language specific to the web media ;
      I agree 100 percent.
      We have to bring Internet Mapping down to HTML and
      JavaScript programmers. Affordability and simplicity
      in implementation are the key factors to such
      large-scale deployment.
      "Internet Mapping without Map Server" using of course
      SVG (and may be Flash) is one of our goal to have an
      interactive map on almost every web site. It is my
      dream.
      Your Flash examples are high quality professional
      maps. But they seem customized to the client's Maps.
      How easy or difficult to implement such a system?
      Can you bring a Mapping Flash Application down to a
      level, where the user (map publisher) is not keen on
      learning svg or Flash?
      Yosri Diab
      www.GeoGraphs.com


      --- castelginestfr <eric.mauviere@...> wrote:
      > As the "author" of these Flash examples (i noticed
      > yesterday an
      > important traffic from your list on my web site),
      > i would like to say that :
      > - regarding mapping, there is no need to keep up
      > fight between Flash
      > and SVG, the real competition is between
      > great mapping software editors, whose server
      > "solutions" on the web
      > are incredibly expensive for very poor interactivity
      > and
      > fonctionnalities, and client formats like Flash or
      > SVG ;
      > - there is a real need to invent a new cartographic
      > and pedagogical
      > language specific to the web media ;
      > supporters of Flash ou SVG could (should ?) work
      > together ;
      > - at last, mapping with Flash and database is
      > performable since Flash
      > 4 (1998, javascript interaction
      > with Flash object, no it didn't work with IE 4 on
      > Macintosh). Since
      > Flash 5 (2000), with all browsers and all platforms,
      >
      > direct interaction with any database is possible.
      > Examples :
      > Flash 4 : http://www.arhmip.fr/inter/frame.asp?
      > page=../flash/intro_demo.html (Access database,
      > 1998)
      > or
      >
      http://www.sante.gouv.fr/htm/dossiers/index_cart_tel.htm
      > (french
      > Health Department, 2000)
      > Flash 5 : http://www.arh-poitiers.fr/cartographie/
      > (Access database,
      > 2001);
      > or
      >
      http://www.haute-normandie.assurance-maladie.fr/carto/index.htm
      >
      > (mySQL database, 2001) ;
      > Flash 6 : www.emc3.fr/carte1.html (Access database,
      > up to 6 000
      > graphic objects loaded on the map, 2002)
      > or www.emc3.fr/arh23/carte1.html (Access database,
      > 2002)
      >
      > Eric Mauvi�re
      >
      > --- In svg-developers@y..., "andre m. winter"
      > <andre.winter@u...>
      > wrote:
      > > hi,
      > >
      > > Yosri Diab wrote:
      > >
      > > >Hello Mike, Richard and all
      > > >I think the market is big enough for both SVG and
      > > >Flash.
      > > >
      > > true.
      > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >With no concrete implementation in the Mapping
      > Area.
      > > >
      > > not really true. see
      > http://www.emc3.fr/v6/carte.asp?dept=09 (needs
      > > IE+Flash6). this can be done without any MM
      > software (that says the
      > > author...)
      > >
      > >
      > > andr�
      >
      >


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    • Stephen Harwin
      Hi Jim, Yosri, Eric and others, I have been following your conversation with interest. I am a Geomatician (GIS Specialist/Surveyor) who has worked extensively
      Message 41 of 41 , Aug 4, 2002
        Hi Jim, Yosri, Eric and others,

        I have been following your conversation with interest. I am a Geomatician (GIS Specialist/Surveyor) who has worked extensively with ArcIMS (ESRI's Internet Map Server, which is what is used in the example Jim mentioned (see below)) and I am now delving into the world of SVG and loving it. I have begun by integrating SVG and ArcIMS to allow the user to draw on the image map returned by the spatial server (soon we will allow then to submit those shapes for storage). I have been pondering how to avoid the need for a map server when maps are data rich and multi layered. Or at least what options there are for effective feature selection and and basic queires to return SVG shapes are required. SVG seems ideal when the map can be sent in the first upload, but then they can not have high accuracy polygons (which increases the number of lines in the SVG file to a point where it can be much larger than your average image file). The need for an image base therefore seems unavoidable if there is a requirement for the map to be highly accurate...Any ideas?...WFS has potential.

        I also believe that you are correct that there is a gap in the market where products like ArcView used to fit (it is now too expensive) and there are companies trying to fill that niche (www.manifold.net), but the desktop still seems to be the focus. I am more intersted in the possibilities for SVG based GIS for map viewing (and even data entry...)accessible via the internet to PDAs and cars, PCs etc without proprietory storage formats and ridiculous price tags. A picture is worth a thousand words and I am sure that every site that could have a map would put one on if they had a user friendly GIS type map creation tool, or a tool box of GIS tools for SVG creation, viewing and interaction (I will go and have a closer look at IziMap??). I am on the look out, but until then I will continue to work on the SVG data editing and input options and leave the complex background as an image (perhaps via Oracle 9i's MapViewer instead of ArcIMS - ArcIMS has not been easy to get up and running...grrr).

        This Forum will be the first to know when I have a method I happy with.

        Thanks
        Steve

        >>> "Jim Ley" <jim@...> 2/8/02 7:28:28 pm >>>
        "andre m. winter" <andre.winter@...>

        > yosri and eric,
        > >"Internet Mapping without Map Server" using of course
        > >SVG (and may be Flash) is one of our goal to have an
        > >interactive map on almost every web site. It is my
        > >dream.
        > >
        >
        > it wont work without a kind of intelligent server. it has not to be a
        > ESRI or MapInfo product, but the limit is somewhere around 1.5mb and
        > 1000 lines of scripts.

        What interests me is:
        http://stort.unep-wcmc.org/imaps/gb2002/book/viewer.htm

        Have gone for an HTML + CSS + script + raster approach, yet are including
        all the functionality of the majority of SVG approaches I've seen.

        Jim.




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