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Re: Re[2]: [SUSE Linux Users] Re: Fast ethernet card setup for SuSE6.3

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  • John de Rivaz
    I would certainly endorse this. The other problem is lack of time. There are so many articles written by journalists and even stock analysts about Linux which
    Message 1 of 3 , May 22, 2004
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      I would certainly endorse this.

      The other problem is lack of time. There are so many articles written by journalists and even stock analysts about Linux which show clearly that the writers have never really tried to set up a system on their own. Instead they have been given a complete running system and a couple of hours to play with it.

      It may well be a cost effective and efficient solution compared to Windows and all those updates and viruses. But anyone wanting to use it under the clock (and that is probably most people) would be better off buying a fully configured Linux PC from a shop, and make sure that you have a backup CD from a Linux equivalent of Norton Ghost. As Linux said to not be as system demanding as Microsoft, it may well be that a relatively cheap system will suffice. But do be sure that you have got all the hardware that you want, for example do not think you can add a DVD writer later when they get cheaper. They may well get cheaper, but the model you chose will probably not come with a Linux driver.

      --
      Sincerely, John de Rivaz: http://John.deRivaz.com for websites including Cryonics Europe, Longevity Report, The Venturists, Porthtowan, Alec Harley Reeves - inventor, Arthur Bowker - potter, de Rivaz genealogy, Nomad .. and more
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Frank Taylor
      To: suselinuxusers@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: 22 May 2004 10:25
      Subject: Re[2]: [SUSE Linux Users] Re: Fast ethernet card setup for SuSE6.3


      OK. So I'm stupid. I have earned my living for over fifty years servicing
      electronic equipment.
      Twenty of those years servicing Computers. I was brought up on machine code
      - 6502 and Z80 cpu's -
      and then on assembly language and BASIC.

      Why was I successful with these? Because the information that I had was
      unambiguous and clear.
      Now I know that at 78 years of age I do not possess the mental agility that
      I had twenty years ago,
      but neither am I stupid.

      I have been trying for two weeks or more to get definitive answers to my
      questions and I have received help
      from some kind souls. I realise that I have NO background of networks and
      how they operate. That is at
      the root of my trouble. What has ethernet to do with Broadband. How do
      they interact? Do I need a Router
      or an Ethernet Hub and a MODEM and how do they interact?

      I feel like a child who is expected to read "War and peace" when he has not
      yet been taught how to read.
      So you see I do need help - from any source - not sarcasm or sly digs at my
      ignorance (which I have and do
      admit to)

      So many Linux users seem to be on the defensive. There is no need. Linux
      will stand or fall according to
      its availability and usefulness. How about a bit of compassion for old old
      fogey who is trying very hard
      to come to terms with a new operating system.

      Frank Taylor
      Pentium 4 - 2.666 GigHz
      1 GigByte RAM
      Windows XP Professional


      *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

      On 22/05/2004 at 05:01 Aaron Kulkis wrote:

      >Frank Taylor wrote:
      >> Depends on whether people have more, or less of a spine than you.
      >>
      >> Why would you need more 'spine'? We are talking about an operating
      >system,
      >> not a bull fight!
      >> Whatever else Linux is; it is certainly NOT user friendly. I have had
      >very
      >
      >Windows is the most user-unfriendly OS I've ever used.....
      >
      >And I've used close to a dozen.
      >
      >> little trouble understanding
      >> and using Windows. With Linux, everything seems like a fight.
      >
      >"SEEMS" is the operative word here.
      >
      >
      >In Linux and Unix, everything is 100% consistant.
      >
      >The problem is, you're used to windows, and the special exception
      >for every rule, and you've grown accustomed to those special rules
      >which violate all of the other rules.
      >
      >>
      >> Most people who use a computer do not want to take a universtiy course
      in
      >> order to use it.
      >
      >The first users of Unix (and a MUCH more primative version than
      >you use...there was NO GUI because it was 1972) were steno-typists.
      >
      >Are you telling us that you're intellectually inferior to steno girls????
      >
      >
      >> As with most other
      >> computer users, I would like to see Microsoft's monopoly broken, but as
      >> things stand, it seems unlikely.
      >> I am with John de Rivaz. It is back to Windows. At least it works
      >without
      >> too much trouble.
      >
      >Cowards never win....Hell, nobody even remembers they existed....
      >
      >
      >>
      >> Frank Taylor
      >>
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >




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    • Horror Vacui
      On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:13:41 +0100 ... I see, you assume they ve been given a ready-configured box... because you don t believe they *did* install it
      Message 2 of 3 , May 22, 2004
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        On Sat, 22 May 2004 12:13:41 +0100
        John wrote:

        > I would certainly endorse this.
        >
        > The other problem is lack of time. There are so many articles written
        > by journalists and even stock analysts about Linux which show clearly
        > that the writers have never really tried to set up a system on their
        > own. Instead they have been given a complete running system and a
        > couple of hours to play with it.

        I see, you assume they've been given a ready-configured box... because
        you don't believe they *did* install it themselves? Or do you believe
        they couln't have installed it and had their hardware automatically
        configured, because something in your hardware configuration failed?
        Further, you assume that those "journalists and even stock analysts"
        testing Windows *haven't* been given a "complete running system" to play
        with for a couple of hours?

        So, assuming that those testing GNU/Linux have everything done for them
        before testing, and assuming that those testing XP do everything
        themselves, clearly shows that... A logic flaw. Backward conclusions.
        Because they obviously found GNU/Linux easy to install and liked it in
        general, they can't have done it themselves. The only thing your
        reasoning shows clearly is that you think it's impossible to have no
        problems installing it, because you had problems.

        >
        > It may well be a cost effective and efficient solution compared to
        > Windows and all those updates and viruses. But anyone wanting to use
        > it under the clock (and that is probably most people) would be better
        > off buying a fully configured Linux PC from a shop, and make sure that
        > you have a backup CD from a Linux equivalent of Norton Ghost. As Linux
        > said to not be as system demanding as Microsoft, it may well be that a
        > relatively cheap system will suffice. But do be sure that you have got
        > all the hardware that you want, for example do not think you can add a
        > DVD writer later when they get cheaper. They may well get cheaper, but
        > the model you chose will probably not come with a Linux driver.

        No, it won't. You don't need the driver, it's in the kernel. It's a
        device using generic command sets via the ide bus. You can just take the
        old CD writer out, put the new one in and use it. I recently replaced my
        4x Philips CD-Writer with a new TEAC 52x, and except for plugging it in,
        I didn't have to change anything on my system.

        You're making the problem bigger than it is. There are devices which
        have no Linux support, or which are difficult to configure in Linux, but
        most devices can be configured rather easily, via the click-through
        interface of the distro you're using. I see you obviously must have
        problems (without ever saying what with), but you're by no means my
        "noob of reference" - I know much more people who have installed it
        without major problems, and had everything configured automatically,
        including TV and radio cards, printers, scanners, cd and dvd burners.

        Cheers

        --
        Horror Vacui

        Registered Linux user #257714

        Go get yourself... counted: http://counter.li.org/
        - and keep following the GNU.
      • Aaron Kulkis
        ... Modern SuSE or Mandrake actually installs EASIER than Windows. The only thing which I think is sub-optimal is the partitioning of disks (default /, /usr
        Message 3 of 3 , May 22, 2004
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          John de Rivaz wrote:
          > I would certainly endorse this.
          >
          > The other problem is lack of time. There are so many articles
          > written by journalists and even stock analysts about Linux
          > which show clearly that the writers have never really tried
          > to set up a system on their own. Instead they have been given
          > a complete running system and a couple of hours to play with it.
          >

          Modern SuSE or Mandrake actually installs EASIER than Windows.
          The only thing which I think is sub-optimal is the partitioning
          of disks (default /, /usr and swap partition)

          (Of course, it's still MUCH better than Windows practice of
          putting EVERYTHING on one partition, which is a guarantee that
          EVERY crash will have a detrimental effect on the filesystem
          holding the operating system itself).

          > It may well be a cost effective and efficient solution
          > compared to Windows and all those updates and viruses. But
          > anyone wanting to use it under the clock (and that is
          > probably most people) would be better off buying a fully
          > configured Linux PC from a shop, and make sure that you have
          > a backup CD from a Linux equivalent of Norton Ghost. As Linux

          In contrast to Windows' usual long-term performance, I've never
          seen Unix or Linux self-destruct, so the need for a "backup CD"
          is rather slim, unless you're using flaky disk drives.

          And I've been using Unix since 1983.


          In any event, EVERY computer should be backed up on a regular
          basis.


          > said to not be as system demanding as Microsoft, it may well
          > be that a relatively cheap system will suffice. But do be
          > sure that you have got all the hardware that you want, for
          > example do not think you can add a DVD writer later when
          > they get cheaper. They may well get cheaper, but the model
          > you chose will probably not come with a Linux driver.

          They're all ATAPI, are they not?

          In which case, Linux doesn't need a new driver.

          Windows is weird about drivers... even asking for drivers for
          external MODEMS for crying out loud (it already has the
          driver for the serial port!!! NOTHING ELSE IS NEEDED!)
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