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Re: [stoics] SHUNYATA AND MUTUAL CAUSALITY

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  • ELEN BUZARE
    hello, Shunyata means: which is devoid of entity . That does mean that nothing exists independently from the rest. The Dharma teaching poses the notion
    Message 1 of 8 , Dec 1, 2002
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      hello,

      "Shunyata" means: "which is devoid of entity". That
      does mean that nothing exists independently from the
      rest.

      The Dharma teaching poses the notion that "things" -a
      better term whould be phenomenon - only exists in
      relation with others. This is the idea of mutual
      causality. An event can only come to existence because
      of interaction of other events.

      So everything is interdependant. The word
      "interdependence" is a translation of the sanskrit
      "pratitya samutpada" which means "being by
      co-emergence". It seems that the stoic notion of
      "universal sympathy" is close in meaning.

      LWH

      Elen
    • Rick Bamford
      ... different, more philosophical, religion. The stance accounts for the religion s strong appeal to western intellectuals. This ignores the reality of daily
      Message 2 of 8 , Jan 21, 2004
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        > Malcolm said "Buddhists frequently take the position that theirs is a
        different, more philosophical, religion. The stance accounts for the
        religion's strong appeal to western intellectuals. This ignores the reality
        of daily Buddhist religious practice as it exists in the Far East, and at
        the same time frequently overlooks the philosophical content that does exist
        equally in Western religions."

        My (admittedly limited) understanding is that Siddhartha Gautama (a.k.a.
        Buddha) preached a philosophy that did not include deities (in fact, I think
        he was specifically atheistic, but I am not sure of that) and that he also
        specifically admonished his followers not to make a god of him. But...
        human beings being what they are, they have for the most part ignored his
        advice and deified (or at least semi-deified) the Buddha anyway. I
        understand that modern Buddhist sects have also folded other ethnic
        spiritual and regional religious traditions into their beliefs and
        practices. I don't think many people are capable of understanding or
        following the Buddha's original teachings, and have instead interpreted them
        or modified them to suit their needs, thus blurring the lines from its
        original form of being a philosophy rooted mainly in reason-based
        discipline, to a religion much dependant on emotion-based faith.

        I am not a Buddhist, but I greatly admire its endorsement of compassion,
        just as I admire the Stoic endorsement of reason. For me, the perfect
        philosophy would be one that incorporates the warm compassion of Buddhism
        and the cool logic of Stoicism.

        Best regards,

        -Rick
      • Malcolm Schosha
        ... different, more philosophical, religion. The stance accounts for the religion s strong appeal to western intellectuals. This ignores the reality of daily
        Message 3 of 8 , Jan 22, 2004
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          Rick Bamford <bamford@...> wrote:

          > Malcolm said "Buddhists frequently take the position that theirs is a
          different, more philosophical, religion. The stance accounts for the
          religion's strong appeal to western intellectuals. This ignores the reality
          of daily Buddhist religious practice as it exists in the Far East, and at
          the same time frequently overlooks the philosophical content that does exist
          equally in Western religions."

          My (admittedly limited) understanding is that Siddhartha Gautama (a.k.a.
          Buddha) preached a philosophy that did not include deities (in fact, I think
          he was specifically atheistic, but I am not sure of that) and that he also
          specifically admonished his followers not to make a god of him.  But...
          human beings being what they are, they have for the most part ignored his
          advice and deified (or at least semi-deified) the Buddha anyway.  I
          understand that modern Buddhist sects have also folded other ethnic
          spiritual and regional religious traditions into their beliefs and
          practices.  I don't think many people are capable of understanding or
          following the Buddha's original teachings, and have instead interpreted them
          or modified them to suit their needs, thus blurring the lines from its
          original form of being a philosophy rooted mainly in reason-based
          discipline, to a religion much dependant on emotion-based faith.

          I am not a Buddhist, but I greatly admire its endorsement of compassion,
          just as I admire the Stoic endorsement of reason.  For me, the perfect
          philosophy would be one that incorporates the warm compassion of Buddhism
          and the cool logic of Stoicism.

          .......................................

          Rick,

          It continues to fascinate me that Buddhism has such an appeal to intellectuals, particularly since one can not find a traditional Buddhist society where the social conditions were not truly abysmal. It is difficult to understand, for instance, why Tibetans would want a return to their previous social conditions, the poverty and inequality were so great; and why western 'liberals' so support that goal.

          However, there is much that is beautiful in the theory, if not the practice.

          Malcolm Schosha


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        • John Laerum
          Cheers all I, for one, used to be somewhat sceptical to Buddhism but has warmed up to it quite a bit since I have got to know many both monks and lay people,
          Message 4 of 8 , May 25, 2008
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            Cheers all

            I, for one, used to be somewhat sceptical to Buddhism but has warmed up to it quite a bit since I have got to know many both monks and lay people, living as I do in a country with centuries old Buddhist traditions.

            One order that has impressed me is the Won Buddhist order whose teaching has much in common with our school - and they are very much actively engaged in this world, not much navel-gazing there.

            I include a link here

            http://www.wonbuddhism.org/

            and particulary recommend to read "The discourses of the Great Master"

            Epictetus re-incarnated?

            All the best

            John

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