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Re: [stoics] Typical interests

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  • Dave Kelly
    Another list of the primary preferred indifferents could be composed from Aristotle s _Rhetoric_ Book 1, Chapter 5. 5. Men, individually and in common,
    Message 1 of 13 , Jun 2, 2012
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      Another list of the "primary preferred indifferents" could be composed
      from Aristotle's _Rhetoric_ Book 1, Chapter 5.

      5. Men, individually and in common, nearly all have some aim, in the
      attainment of which they choose or avoid certain things. This aim,
      briefly stated, is happiness and its component parts. [2] Therefore,
      for the sake of illustration, let us ascertain what happiness,
      generally speaking, is, and what its parts consist in; for all who
      exhort or dissuade discuss happiness and the things which conduce or
      are detrimental to it. For one should do the things which procure
      happiness or one of its parts, or increase instead of diminishing it,
      and avoid doing those things which destroy or hinder it or bring about
      what is contrary to it.

      [3] Let us then define happiness as well-being combined with virtue,
      or independence of life, or the life that is most agreeable combined
      with security, or abundance of possessions and slaves, combined with
      power to protect and make use of them; for nearly all men admit that
      one or more of these things constitutes happiness. [4] If, then, such
      is the nature of happiness, its component parts must necessarily be:
      noble birth, numerous friends, good friends, wealth, good children,
      numerous children, a good old age; further, bodily excellences, such
      as health, beauty, strength, stature, fitness for athletic contests, a
      good reputation, honor, good luck, virtue. For a man would be entirely
      independent, provided he possessed all internal and external goods;
      for there are no others. Internal goods are those of mind and body;
      external goods are noble birth, friends, wealth, honor. To these we
      think should be added certain capacities and good luck; for on these
      conditions life will be perfectly secure.

      [continues]

      http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0060%3Abook%3D1%3Achapter%3D5

      I'd like to set aside discussion about the possession of slaves.

      Best wishes,
      Dave


      On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Dave Kelly <ptypes@...> wrote:
      >
      > I'd like to replace the last line of my message with:
      >
      > In order to be happy, these and other preferred indiffferents, if pursued, must be pursued 'with reservation' and virtuously.
      >
      >
      >
      > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Dave Kelly <ptypes@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Our interests, and the projects we engage in to further our interests, all concern things that are preferred indifferents, except, of course, for our primary interest and project which concerns perfecting our moral characters.
      >>
      >> Another way besides the typological way to conceive of our interests in general  is to think of the primary preferred indifferents, which would include Life, Health, Wealth, Possessions, Pleasure, Strength, Physical beauty, Intelligence, Status, Reputation, Noble birth, Relationships, and Security.
      >>
      >> In order to be happen, then, if pursued, one must pursue these preferred indifferents along with all others with reservation and virtuously.
      >>
      >> Best wishes,
      >> Dave
    • Jjaaeemmoo
      Sent from Samsung Mobile
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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        Sent from Samsung Mobile
      • thomaszane63
        You make the reference to the PRIMARY preferred indifferents. Is this your term, or is it from some writing somewhere? I haven t seen it worded that way.
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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          You make the reference to the "PRIMARY" preferred indifferents. Is this your term, or is it from some writing somewhere? I haven't seen it worded that way. Thank you.

          TZ


          --- In stoics@yahoogroups.com, Dave Kelly <ptypes@...> wrote:
          >
          > I'd like to replace the last line of my message with:
          >
          > In order to be happy, these and other preferred indiffferents, if pursued,
          > must be pursued 'with reservation' and virtuously.
          >
          >
          > On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 11:50 AM, Dave Kelly <ptypes@...> wrote:
          >
          > > Our interests, and the projects we engage in to further our interests, all
          > > concern things that are preferred indifferents, except, of course, for our
          > > primary interest and project which concerns perfecting our moral characters.
          > >
          > > Another way besides the typological way to conceive of our interests in
          > > general is to think of the primary preferred indifferents, which would
          > > include Life, Health, Wealth, Possessions, Pleasure, Strength, Physical
          > > beauty, Intelligence, Status, Reputation, Noble birth, Relationships, and
          > > Security.
          > >
          > > In order to be happen, then, if pursued, one must pursue these preferred
          > > indifferents along with all others with reservation and virtuously.
          > >
          > > Best wishes,
          > > Dave
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:37 PM, Dave <ptypes@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >> **
          > >>
          > >>
          > >> It is useful to become aware of your interests and the projects that you
          > >> engage in to further those interests.
          > >>
          > >> Keith's correspondence course and book, Stoic_Serenity introduce this
          > >> focus on interests and projects to Stoic practice.
          > >>
          > >> I have intuited the 'main interest' of each of the 16 personality types
          > >> which are the subjects of <http://www.ptypes.com>
          > >>
          > >> Conscientious.....acheiving things
          > >> Senstive.....being accepted
          > >> Vigilant.....maintaining autonomy
          > >> Dramatic.....getting attention
          > >>
          > >> Aggressive.....exercising power
          > >> Idiosyncratic.....nonconforming
          > >> Inventive.....gaining recognition and approval
          > >> Solitary......finding solitude
          > >>
          > >> Leisurely.....doing as one pleases
          > >> Serious.....making a living
          > >> Self-sacrificing.....helping others
          > >> Devoted.....being helped
          > >>
          > >> Self-confident.....being successful
          > >> Adventurous.....facing challenges
          > >> Mercurial.....maintaining relationships
          > >> Exuberant.....enjoying pleasurable experiences
          > >>
          > >> I am trying to remind myself, "pursue your interests 'with reservation'
          > >> and virtuously."
          > >>
          > >> Best wishes,
          > >> Dave
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --
          > > PTypes Personality Types
          > > http://www.ptypes.com/
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > --
          > PTypes Personality Types
          > http://www.ptypes.com/
          >
        • Jjaaeemmoo
          Dave i take it that here indifference means non attachment Sent from Samsung Mobile
          Message 4 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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            Dave i take it that here indifference means non attachment


            Sent from Samsung Mobile
          • Dave
            ... I read of primary objects of desire, and of primary objects of natural desire. One book stated that Epicurus did not agree with the other three ancient
            Message 5 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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              --- In stoics@yahoogroups.com, "thomaszane63" <thomaszane63@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > You make the reference to the "PRIMARY" preferred indifferents. Is this your term, or is it from some writing somewhere? I haven't seen it worded that way. Thank you.

              I read of primary objects of desire, and of primary objects of natural desire. One book stated that Epicurus did not agree with the other three ancient philosophers, Plato, Aristotle, and Zeno, about the primary objects of natural desire, which he restricted to pleasure and pain. From other sources it was apparent that the primary objects of desire referred to things that the Stoics define as preferred indifferents, things like health and wealth and good friends.

              Best wishes,
              Dave

              > TZ
            • Dave
              ... It s more useful to think in terms of the categories of good, bad and indifferent. We should wish to become attached only to good things and to things that
              Message 6 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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                --- In stoics@yahoogroups.com, Jjaaeemmoo <jjaaeemmoo@...> wrote:
                >
                > Dave i take it that here indifference means non attachment

                It's more useful to think in terms of the categories of good, bad and indifferent. We should wish to become attached only to good things and to things that are appropriate for us to become attached to, which are the prefferred indifferents, but attached only to an appropriate degree.

                Best wishes,
                Dave
              • Jjaaeemmoo
                U mean fitting in nicely with natures grand sceem.syncronising your self with it. Sent from Samsung Mobile
                Message 7 of 13 , Jun 4, 2012
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                  U mean fitting in nicely with natures grand sceem.syncronising your self with it.


                  Sent from Samsung Mobile
                • Dave
                  ... No, I can t say that I did mean that. It sounds like a good thing to do, though. Best wishes, Dave
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jun 5, 2012
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                    --- In stoics@yahoogroups.com, Jjaaeemmoo <jjaaeemmoo@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > U mean fitting in nicely with natures grand sceem.syncronising your self with it.

                    No, I can't say that I did mean that.

                    It sounds like a good thing to do, though.

                    Best wishes,
                    Dave
                  • Jjaaeemmoo
                    Dave is this ur stuff or stoics of the old school Sent from Samsung Mobile
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jun 5, 2012
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                      Dave is this ur stuff or stoics of the old school

                      Sent from Samsung Mobile
                    • Dave Kelly
                      ... It s all according to the ancient Stoics except for use of the personality types. Do you know the ancient Stoic teaching concerning preferred indifferents?
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jun 5, 2012
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                        On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 10:24 AM, Jjaaeemmoo <jjaaeemmoo@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Dave is this ur stuff or stoics of the old school

                        It's all according to the ancient Stoics except for use of the
                        personality types.

                        Do you know the ancient Stoic teaching concerning preferred indifferents?

                        > Sent from Samsung Mobile

                        Best wishes,
                        Dave
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