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Re: [stoics] Nietzsche-Stoicism

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  • robin
    ... I ve also seen Nietzsche s philosophy described as hysterical stoicism , which although it looks like an oxymoron seems to encapsulate it rather nicely! I
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 1, 2006
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      peter sullivan wrote:
      > A year ago or so..I was reading MIchel Haar's 'Nietzsche And Metaphysics'- he calls N. an
      > 'aesthetic Stoic'--
      > anyone else see any comparisons?

      I've also seen Nietzsche's philosophy described as "hysterical
      stoicism", which although it looks like an oxymoron seems to encapsulate
      it rather nicely!

      I can just imagine an AOL chat about these perspectives:

      ordinaryguy312: omg did u here about that earthqauke????? i mean like
      that sux so much. when i heard about those dead ppl i wantd to cry!!!!111
      ep1ct3tu5: do not be distrubed by thngs nt in yr ctrl. r these ppl nt
      mortal?? nthng terrbl has bef4llen thm.
      n1375h3: woah d00d!! i luv 34R7HQU4|<3Z!!!
      ordinaryguy312: but u cn DIE!!!!
      n1375h3: yeah but if it deosnt |<1LL me it mks me strngr ;-)

      Robin
    • D. Gregory Geis
      Peter just off the top of my head... Nietzsche seldom mentions the Stoics other than passim, a fact which I find curious given his frequent mention of Epicurus
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 1, 2006
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        Peter
         
        just off the top of my head...
         
        Nietzsche seldom mentions the Stoics other than passim, a fact which I find curious given his frequent mention of Epicurus and appropriation of the idea of eternal recurrence. One instance where he does occurs in Beyond Good and Evil (Section 9), and is hardly salutary. It begins "According to nature you want to live? O you noble Stoics, what deceptive words these are! Imagine a being like nature, wasteful beyond measure, indifferent beyond measure, without purposes and consideration, without mercy and justice, fertile and desolate and uncertain at the same time..." Nietzsche was no friend of the Stoics.
         
        In my opinion, Nietzsche uses the concept of eternal recurrence to challenge himself to make the life he lives now worth endlessly repeating. The Stoics, however, see this endless repetition as the optimistic acknowledgment that nature cannot be improved on.  Nietzsche's view of fate (amor fati--the love of fate) resembles only superficially the Stoic view of providence. However both share the same view--paradoxical as it may seem--that man is perfectible; the universe is not. Nature cannot be improved upon: it is always purchased "as is".
         
         
        Peace
         
         
         
        Greg
         


        peter sullivan <peterbsullivan@...> wrote:
        A year ago or so..I was reading MIchel Haar's 'Nietzsche And Metaphysics'- he calls N.  an
        'aesthetic Stoic'--
        anyone else see any comparisons?





      • peter sullivan
        ... He s not calling Nietzsche an official Stoic btw. He s citing both N. and Stoicism s origins in Heraclitus ideas of eternal flux, etc. Also the
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 5, 2006
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          --- Well according to Michel Haar there are similarities..
          He's not calling Nietzsche an 'official Stoic' btw.
          He's citing both N. and Stoicism's origins in Heraclitus ideas of eternal flux, etc.
          Also the similarity in the concept of Microcosm reflecting Macrocosm. ..found in both N
          and Stoicism-
          again Haar calls N. an ' Aesthetic Stoic' ..
          which reminds me of the American Pragmatist phllosopher John McDermott calling his own
          view 'Stoicism Without Foundation'
          and then he cites Walt Whitman..
          Peter

          n stoics@yahoogroups.com, "D. Gregory Geis" <brainlocked@...> wrote:
          >
          > Peter
          >
          > just off the top of my head...
          >
          > Nietzsche seldom mentions the Stoics other than passim, a fact which I find curious
          given his frequent mention of Epicurus and appropriation of the idea of eternal recurrence.
          One instance where he does occurs in Beyond Good and Evil (Section 9), and is hardly
          salutary. It begins "According to nature you want to live? O you noble Stoics, what
          deceptive words these are! Imagine a being like nature, wasteful beyond measure,
          indifferent beyond measure, without purposes and consideration, without mercy and
          justice, fertile and desolate and uncertain at the same time..." Nietzsche was no friend of
          the Stoics.
          >
          > In my opinion, Nietzsche uses the concept of eternal recurrence to challenge himself to
          make the life he lives now worth endlessly repeating. The Stoics, however, see this endless
          repetition as the optimistic acknowledgment that nature cannot be improved on.
          Nietzsche's view of fate (amor fati--the love of fate) resembles only superficially the Stoic
          view of providence. However both share the same view--paradoxical as it may seem--that
          man is perfectible; the universe is not. Nature cannot be improved upon: it is always
          purchased "as is".
          >
          >
          > Peace
          >
          >
          >
          > Greg
          >
          >
          >
          > peter sullivan <peterbsullivan@...> wrote:
          > A year ago or so..I was reading MIchel Haar's 'Nietzsche And Metaphysics'- he calls N.
          an
          > 'aesthetic Stoic'--
          > anyone else see any comparisons?
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
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