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Asteroid Phaethon

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  • algwat
    Gidday All, I had sent this(see below) to karl before I had checked it further with Starry Night astroids. This looks like a good ooprtuinty ot watch this
    Message 1 of 16 , Jun 19 9:24 PM
      Gidday All,
      I had sent this(see below) to karl before I had checked it further with Starry Night astroids.

      This looks like a good ooprtuinty ot watch this asteroid, from the wiki referneces, "One of Phaethon's most remarkable distinctions is that it approaches the Sun closer than any other numbered asteroid; its perihelion is only 0.140 AU — less than half Mercury's perihelion distance"

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3200_Phaethon

      I wonder if STEREO can see a cometary outflow as Phaethon warms up?
      It will be in the FOV of STEREO HI1A for several day looping upwards.

      kind regards, Alan.


      Gidday Karl,
      This could be asteroid Phaethon. This one is about 1.08 au form STEREO-A.
      It moves very fast across the FOV as seen in Starry night at about Mag11.
      Apologies for the noise, kind regards, Alan.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Alan Watson" <awat4309@...>
      To: <sungrazer@...>
      Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 1:44 PM
      Subject: Potential SECCHI comet HI1a


      > Gidday Karl,
      > This looks interesting, moving fast and horizontal, no tail as such.
      > Checking for asteroids but seems to move to fast..
      > Kind regards, Alan Watson
      >
      > Camera: HI1a
      > (0,0) upleft image pixvalue X Y slice
      > 1 200906:20090617_200901_s4h1A 28.5832 982 681 1
      > 2 200906:20090617_204901_s4h1A 29.9500 979 681 2
      > 3 200906:20090617_212901_s4h1A 28.2312 977 680 3
      > 4 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 16.2788 974 679 4
      > 5 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 22.4277 974 680 4
      > 6 200906:20090617_232901_s4h1A 47.7179 971 679 6
      > 7 200906:20090617_224901_s4h1A 20.1742 972 680 5
      > 8 Result of 200906:20090617_160901_s4h1A 31.7017 996 683 3
      > 9 Result of 200906:20090617_144901_s4h1A 33.2415 1000 684 1
      > 10 Result of 200906:20090617_164901_s4h1A 31.0322 993 683 4
      > 11 Result of 200906:20090617_184901_s4h1A 30.8869 986 682 7
      > 12 Result of 200906:20090617_204901_s4h1A 29.9500 979 681 10
      > 13 Result of 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 22.4277 974 680 12
      >
    • Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
      G Day All ... Also from Wikipedia Phaethon s attributes can be argued as being cometary, except that Phaethon has never been observed exhibiting a coma, gas
      Message 2 of 16 , Jun 20 12:14 AM
        G'Day All

        At 01:54 PM 20/06/2009, Alan wrote:
        >Gidday All,
        >I had sent this(see below) to karl before I had
        >checked it further with Starry Night astroids.
        >
        >This looks like a good ooprtuinty ot watch this
        >asteroid, from the wiki referneces, "One of
        >Phaethon's most remarkable distinctions is that
        >it approaches the Sun closer than any other
        >numbered asteroid; its perihelion is only 0.140
        >AU — less than half Mercury's perihelion distance"

        Also from Wikipedia "Phaethon's attributes can be
        argued as being cometary, except that Phaethon
        has never been observed exhibiting a coma, gas jets, or dust trail. "

        It's the parent body of the Geminids, so watching
        it closely is a really good idea. Good catch Alan.

        Cheers! Ian

        ======================================================
        Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis,
        Michael James and Andrew Thomas Musgrave
        reynella@... http://home.mira.net/~reynella/
        Southern Sky Watch
        http://www.abc.net.au/science/space/default.htm (scroll down right hand menu)
        AstroBlogg http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/
        Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
        http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml
      • Alan Watson
        Thanks Ian, Here is another interesting link about this asteroid from Seiichi Yoshida web site. http://www.aerith.net/astro/Phaethon-dust-trail.html kind
        Message 3 of 16 , Jun 20 2:09 AM
          Thanks Ian,
          Here is another interesting link about this asteroid from Seiichi Yoshida web site.
           
          kind regards, Alan
           
        • Karl Battams
          Alan, This is pretty cool! Thanks for pointing it out! I ll definitely follow it. I meant to tell everyone that our websites will probably be down all
          Message 4 of 16 , Jun 20 5:18 AM
            Alan,

            This is pretty cool!  Thanks for pointing it out!  I'll definitely follow it.

            I meant to tell everyone that our websites will probably be down all weekend for maintenance work.  Also, emails you send me will not get received until later tonight.  If you have any comet reports today, please submit them to SohoHunter/StereoHunter (as appropriate) but still also send a copy to me via email.  Sorry for the inconvenience and late notice!

            Regards,
            ~~Karl

            On Sat, Jun 20, 2009 at 12:24 AM, algwat <awat4309@...> wrote:


            Gidday All,
            I had sent this(see below) to karl before I had checked it further with Starry Night astroids.

            This looks like a good ooprtuinty ot watch this asteroid, from the wiki referneces, "One of Phaethon's most remarkable distinctions is that it approaches the Sun closer than any other numbered asteroid; its perihelion is only 0.140 AU — less than half Mercury's perihelion distance"

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3200_Phaethon

            I wonder if STEREO can see a cometary outflow as Phaethon warms up?
            It will be in the FOV of STEREO HI1A for several day looping upwards.

            kind regards, Alan.


            Gidday Karl,
            This could be asteroid Phaethon. This one is about 1.08 au form STEREO-A.
            It moves very fast across the FOV as seen in Starry night at about Mag11.
            Apologies for the noise, kind regards, Alan.

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Alan Watson" <awat4309@...>
            To: <sungrazer@...>
            Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 1:44 PM
            Subject: Potential SECCHI comet HI1a

            > Gidday Karl,
            > This looks interesting, moving fast and horizontal, no tail as such.
            > Checking for asteroids but seems to move to fast..
            > Kind regards, Alan Watson
            >
            > Camera: HI1a
            > (0,0) upleft image pixvalue X Y slice
            > 1 200906:20090617_200901_s4h1A 28.5832 982 681 1
            > 2 200906:20090617_204901_s4h1A 29.9500 979 681 2
            > 3 200906:20090617_212901_s4h1A 28.2312 977 680 3
            > 4 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 16.2788 974 679 4
            > 5 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 22.4277 974 680 4
            > 6 200906:20090617_232901_s4h1A 47.7179 971 679 6
            > 7 200906:20090617_224901_s4h1A 20.1742 972 680 5
            > 8 Result of 200906:20090617_160901_s4h1A 31.7017 996 683 3
            > 9 Result of 200906:20090617_144901_s4h1A 33.2415 1000 684 1
            > 10 Result of 200906:20090617_164901_s4h1A 31.0322 993 683 4
            > 11 Result of 200906:20090617_184901_s4h1A 30.8869 986 682 7
            > 12 Result of 200906:20090617_204901_s4h1A 29.9500 979 681 10
            > 13 Result of 200906:20090617_220901_s4h1A 22.4277 974 680 12
            >


          • Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
            G Day All ... Hmm, a whole lot of negative. According to me Perihelion for Phaeton is roughly the 21st, so we should be vigilant over these next few days.
            Message 5 of 16 , Jun 20 5:45 AM
              G'Day All

              At 06:39 PM 20/06/2009, Alan wrote:


              >Thanks Ian,
              >Here is another interesting link about this asteroid from Seiichi
              >Yoshida web site.
              ><http://www.aerith.net/astro/Phaethon-dust-trail.html>http://www.aerith.net/astro/Phaethon-dust-trail.html

              Hmm, a whole lot of negative.

              According to me Perihelion for Phaeton is roughly the 21st, so we
              should be vigilant over these next few days.

              Cheers! Ian

              ======================================================
              Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis, Michael James and Andrew
              Thomas Musgrave
              reynella@... http://home.mira.net/~reynella/
              Southern Sky Watch http://www.abc.net.au/science/space/default.htm
              (scroll down right hand menu)
              AstroBlogg http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/
              Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
              http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml
            • Alan Watson
              Gidday Ian, Looks like it will be in Stereo-A and Stereo-B in images of the 20-22nd and a few days more. ... Perhaps a good CME hit would have an effect.? Kind
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 20 6:14 AM
                Gidday Ian,
                Looks like it will be in Stereo-A and Stereo-B in images of the 20-22nd and a few days more.
                 
                >Hmm, a whole lot of negative.
                Perhaps a good CME hit would have an effect.?
                 
                Kind regards, Alan
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:45 PM
                Subject: Re: [stereohunter] Asteroid Phaethon

                G'Day All

                At 06:39 PM 20/06/2009, Alan wrote:

                >Thanks Ian,
                >Here is another interesting link about this asteroid from Seiichi
                >Yoshida web site.
                ><http://www.aerith. net/astro/ Phaethon- dust-trail. html>http://www.aerith. net/astro/ Phaethon- dust-trail. html

                Hmm, a whole lot of negative.

                According to me Perihelion for Phaeton is roughly the 21st, so we
                should be vigilant over these next few days.

                Cheers! Ian

                ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ======
                Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis, Michael James and Andrew
                Thomas Musgrave
                reynella@mira. net http://home. mira.net/ ~reynella/
                Southern Sky Watch http://www.abc. net.au/science/ space/default. htm
                (scroll down right hand menu)
                AstroBlogg http://astroblogger .blogspot. com/
                Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
                http://www.skyandsp ace.com.au/ public/home. ehtml

              • Dimitry Chestnov
                Hi all, When I found out what tells IAUC 9054, I plotted a light curve of Phaethon using Seiichi Yoshida s software Comet for Windows . The light curve
                Message 7 of 16 , Jul 2, 2009
                  Hi all,

                  When I found out what tells IAUC 9054, I plotted a light curve of Phaethon using Seiichi Yoshida's software "Comet for Windows". The light curve clearly shows that the asteroid shows brightness surge near perihelion, when it should be very faint due to phase effect:

                  http://astro.21ball.ru/curves/A03200.html

                  Near perihelion observed magnitude was 10-11, but ephemeris magnitude was only 16.2. 36 hr later, observed magnitude was 13-14, but ephemeris magnitude was as much as 36.1!

                  So, photometrically Phaethon near perihelion is rather a comet. More photometry from STEREO, covering desirably all visibility period, is appreciated.

                  Best regards,
                  Dimitry Chestnov
                • Dimitry Chestnov
                  ... Sorry, I made a mistake in my previous message. I used geocentric ephemeris magnitudes instead of STEREO-centric. Correct ephemeris magnitudes according to
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jul 3, 2009
                    --- In stereohunter@yahoogroups.com, "Dimitry Chestnov" <dirl89@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Near perihelion observed magnitude was 10-11, but ephemeris magnitude was only 16.2. 36 hr later, observed magnitude was 13-14, but ephemeris magnitude was as much as 36.1!
                    >

                    Sorry, I made a mistake in my previous message. I used geocentric ephemeris magnitudes instead of STEREO-centric.

                    Correct ephemeris magnitudes according to JPL are given below:

                    near perihelion m = 13.1
                    36 hr later m = 14.7

                    I also found one more visibility period of Phaethon near perihelion. It was on 2007 Dec. 28 - 2008 Jan. 14 (STEREO-B satellite).

                    Regards,
                    Dimitry
                  • Dimitry Chestnov
                    Simultaneous observations from both STEREO spacecraft may help us to know is this brightness caused by phase effect (asteroid behaviour) or not (comet
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jul 3, 2009
                      Simultaneous observations from both STEREO spacecraft may help us to know is this brightness caused by phase effect (asteroid behaviour) or not (comet behaviour).
                    • Alan Watson
                      Gidday Diitry , some further info for you. ... Some positions in Stereo Hi1B, too hard to detect after these. (0,0) Upleft image pixvalue x y slie 17
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jul 4, 2009
                        Gidday Diitry ,
                        some further info for you.
                        >Simultaneous observations from both STEREO spacecraft may help us to know is this brightness caused by phase effect (asteroid behavior) or not (comet behavior).
                        Some positions in Stereo Hi1B, too hard to detect after these.
                        (0,0) Upleft image   pixvalue  x  y  slie
                        17 200906:20090621_020901_s4h1B 117.0299 9 566 4
                        18 200906:20090621_040901_s4h1B 112.6499 21 560 7
                        19 200906:20090621_080901_s4h1B 81.1234 50 548 13
                        20 200906:20090621_104901_s4h1B 65.6277 68 541 17
                        21 200906:20090621_124901_s4h1B 56.2850 80 535 20
                        22 200906:20090621_140901_s4h1B 53.6190 88 531 22
                        23 200906:20090621_152901_s4h1B 35.5949 98 526 24
                        24 200906:20090621_212901_s4h1B 31.3209 135 510 33
                        25 200906:20090621_232901_s4h1B 17.8045 146 505 36
                         
                        Also,
                        >I also found one more visibility period of Phaethon near perihelion. It
                        was on 2007 Dec. 28 - 2008 Jan. 14 (STEREO-B satellite).
                        I have looked around this period in the STEREO A and STEREO B images for a similar fast moving object , but cannot detect it. 
                         
                        I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but can measure the values of each position that result form how I have processed the images.
                        Would you like that information?
                         
                        kind regards, Alan Watson
                         
                      • Alan Watson
                        sorry Dimitry ...m.....ummmmm rgds al ... From: Alan Watson To: stereohunter@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:54 PM Subject: Re:
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jul 4, 2009
                          sorry "Dimitry" ...m.....ummmmm  rgds al
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 5:54 PM
                          Subject: Re: [stereohunter] Re: Phaethon showed cometary activity?

                          Gidday Diitry ,
                          some further info for you.
                          >Simultaneous observations from both STEREO spacecraft may help us to know is this brightness caused by phase effect (asteroid behavior) or not (comet behavior).
                          Some positions in Stereo Hi1B, too hard to detect after these.
                          (0,0) Upleft image   pixvalue  x  y  slie
                          17 200906:20090621_ 020901_s4h1B 117.0299 9 566 4
                          18 200906:20090621_ 040901_s4h1B 112.6499 21 560 7
                          19 200906:20090621_ 080901_s4h1B 81.1234 50 548 13
                          20 200906:20090621_ 104901_s4h1B 65.6277 68 541 17
                          21 200906:20090621_ 124901_s4h1B 56.2850 80 535 20
                          22 200906:20090621_ 140901_s4h1B 53.6190 88 531 22
                          23 200906:20090621_ 152901_s4h1B 35.5949 98 526 24
                          24 200906:20090621_ 212901_s4h1B 31.3209 135 510 33
                          25 200906:20090621_ 232901_s4h1B 17.8045 146 505 36
                           
                          Also,
                          >I also found one more visibility period of Phaethon near perihelion. It was on 2007 Dec. 28 - 2008 Jan. 14 (STEREO-B satellite).
                          I have looked around this period in the STEREO A and STEREO B images for a similar fast moving object , but cannot detect it. 
                           
                          I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but can measure the values of each position that result form how I have processed the images.
                          Would you like that information?
                           
                          kind regards, Alan Watson
                           

                        • Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
                          G Day All ... In the H1A images Phaeton is deep within coronal ejections. I m not sure how it s possible to do photometery under these circumstances (even if I
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jul 4, 2009
                            G'Day All

                            At 05:24 PM 4/07/2009, Alan wrote:
                            >[snip]
                            >I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but can
                            >measure the values of each position that result form how I have
                            >processed the images.
                            >Would you like that information?

                            In the H1A images Phaeton is deep within coronal ejections. I'm not
                            sure how it's possible to do photometery under these circumstances
                            (even if I *did* know how to do photometery)

                            Cheers! Ian

                            ======================================================
                            Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis, Michael James and Andrew
                            Thomas Musgrave
                            reynella@... http://home.mira.net/~reynella/
                            Southern Sky Watch http://www.abc.net.au/science/space/default.htm
                            (scroll down right hand menu)
                            AstroBlogg http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/
                            Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
                            http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml
                          • Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
                            G Day All ... It may be am illusion, but Paeton seems a bit more extended than I would expect for its supposed brightness. Hint of a tail or just smeared
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jul 4, 2009
                              G'Day All

                              At 06:10 PM 4/07/2009, you wrote:
                              >G'Day All
                              >
                              >At 05:24 PM 4/07/2009, Alan wrote:
                              > >[snip]
                              > >I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but can
                              > >measure the values of each position that result form how I have
                              > >processed the images.
                              > >Would you like that information?
                              >
                              >In the H1A images Phaeton is deep within coronal ejections. I'm not
                              >sure how it's possible to do photometery under these circumstances
                              >(even if I *did* know how to do photometery)

                              It may be am illusion, but Paeton seems a bit more extended than I
                              would expect for its supposed brightness. Hint of a tail or just
                              smeared pixels?

                              Cheers! Ian

                              ======================================================
                              Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis, Michael James and Andrew
                              Thomas Musgrave
                              reynella@... http://home.mira.net/~reynella/
                              Southern Sky Watch http://www.abc.net.au/science/space/default.htm
                              (scroll down right hand menu)
                              AstroBlogg http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/
                              Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
                              http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml
                            • Dimitry Chestnov
                              ... In IAUC 9054, Karl noted a very short radial elongation (perpendicular to the direction of motion) that was possibly a line-of-sight effect related to its
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jul 4, 2009
                                --- In stereohunter@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Watson" <awat4309@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but can measure the values of each position that result form how I have processed the images.
                                > Would you like that information?
                                >


                                --- In stereohunter@yahoogroups.com, Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue <reynella@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > It may be an illusion, but Paeton seems a bit more extended than I
                                > would expect for its supposed brightness. Hint of a tail or just
                                > smeared pixels?
                                >

                                In IAUC 9054, Karl noted "a very short radial elongation (perpendicular to the direction of motion) that was possibly a line-of-sight effect related to its passage through a reasonably dense, higher-speed solar outflow stream", "the apparent brightness increased significantly (about 2 mag or more)" and "more formal photometry will be performed later".

                                Regards,
                                Dimirty
                              • Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
                                G Day All ... Meh! I ve been banging my head against photometry for this thing and I just cant do it, the image brightness is to variable, even my comparison
                                Message 15 of 16 , Jul 5, 2009
                                  G'Day All

                                  At 06:56 PM 4/07/2009, Dimirty wrote:
                                  >--- In stereohunter@yahoogroups.com, "Alan Watson" <awat4309@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > I don't know how to do correct photmetry on these images , but
                                  > can measure the values of each position that result form how I have
                                  > processed the images.
                                  > > Would you like that information?
                                  >--- In stereohunter@yahoogroups.com, Ian Musgrave & Peta O'Donohue
                                  ><reynella@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > It may be an illusion, but Paeton seems a bit more extended than I
                                  > > would expect for its supposed brightness. Hint of a tail or just
                                  > > smeared pixels?
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >In IAUC 9054, Karl noted "a very short radial elongation
                                  >(perpendicular to the direction of motion) that was possibly a
                                  >line-of-sight effect related to its passage through a reasonably
                                  >dense, higher-speed solar outflow stream", "the apparent brightness
                                  >increased significantly (about 2 mag or more)" and "more formal
                                  >photometry will be performed later".

                                  Meh! I've been banging my head against photometry for this thing and
                                  I just cant do it, the image brightness is to variable, even my
                                  comparison stars are jumping about in brightness. Still, Phaeton is
                                  near invisible in the images from the 19th, very visible in the 20th
                                  and fades rapidly in the 21st. And I'm certain that the image is
                                  extended. Still without accurate photometry it's going to be hard to
                                  say anything.

                                  Cheers! Ian

                                  ======================================================
                                  Ian Musgrave Peta O'Donohue, Jack Francis, Michael James and Andrew
                                  Thomas Musgrave
                                  reynella@... http://home.mira.net/~reynella/
                                  Southern Sky Watch http://www.abc.net.au/science/space/default.htm
                                  (scroll down right hand menu)
                                  AstroBlogg http://astroblogger.blogspot.com/
                                  Contributing Editor, Sky & Space
                                  http://www.skyandspace.com.au/public/home.ehtml
                                • algwat
                                  Gidday all, My view of Phaethon passing through perihelion. kind regards, Alan Just follow this link to see the video:
                                  Message 16 of 16 , Jul 9, 2009
                                    Gidday all,
                                    My view of Phaethon passing through perihelion.
                                    kind regards, Alan

                                    Just follow this link to see the video:
                                    http://www.flickr.com/photos/40303621@N03/3705787107/

                                    (If the link doesn't work, try copying and pasting it from this email into your browser's address bar.)
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