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Re: [Stellar Crisis Club] Wikipedia

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  • Sebastian Mendel
    ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Crisis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Stellar_Crisis -- Sebastian
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 2, 2009
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      On 27.02.2009 16:46, Frank May wrote:
      > I just did a search for Stellar Crisis in Wikipedia. There is nothing
      > listed. Apparently they took out the article that was there. Can
      > somebody put something in. I'm too unsure of and ignorant of what is needed.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Crisis
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Stellar_Crisis

      --
      Sebastian
    • Sebastian Mendel
      ... if you wanna have a look at the old wikipedia article: http://web.archive.org/web/20071222142423/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Crisis -- Sebastian
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 2, 2009
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        On 27.02.2009 23:20, Paul wrote:
        > Here's a start.
        >
        > http://homeserve.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage

        if you wanna have a look at the old wikipedia article:

        http://web.archive.org/web/20071222142423/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_Crisis

        --
        Sebastian Mendel
      • Christopher Priest
        While that may be true a revert to history would be more reasonable. It seems though from the deleter s comments that the lack of reference to published
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 2, 2009
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          While that may be true a revert to history would be more reasonable.

          It seems though from the deleter's comments that the lack of reference to published literature was the main problem along with significance. The article was viewed as being on a minor historical event.

          I object more to being removed from the list of browser games. As a currently active game we should be listed there. And since every game there has it's own page...

          I'll be pursuing it further.

          One problem is that my research showed that the game was released in
          February 1995 on the roxen(or ...) server and that it was in limited beta testing starting in Oct 1994. That was according to sylvan(sp). Only bigB thought it came out 2 years earlier in 1993.

          Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.

          /Christopher Priest
          ChristopherPriest@...


          --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Greg Nord <life.incarnate@...> wrote:

          > From: Greg Nord <life.incarnate@...>
          > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
          > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
          > Received: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
          > Yeah, the last time i saw Wikipedia's article about
          > Stellar Crisis,
          > someone had rewritten the whole thing, and used the article
          > to
          > promote one particular empire. Not a good idea.
          >
          > And...
          >
          > Catfish don't have true scales.
          >
          > -- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul"
          > <wretch_sc@...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Here's a start.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > http://homeserve.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
          > "philltrump"
          > > <philltrump@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Well i can help with the project if needed. i
          > know i have not
          > played on
          > > > a server in awhile but have been getting real
          > good with wiki
          > code. If
          > > > someone wants to start working on a page i have
          > no problem
          > helping out.
          > > > Also, i may come back and play but Warhammer had
          > taking all my
          > time : D
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
          > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
          > Links
          >
          >
          >

          __________________________________________________________________
          Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
        • Christopher Priest
          That last post was in error. You will note incomplete thoughts and sentences. I had too many browsers & tabs open due to a research project and the machine
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 2, 2009
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            That last post was in error. You will note incomplete thoughts and sentences. I had too many browsers & tabs open due to a research project and the machine got overloaded and glacial... I couldn't see what I was doing.

            /Christopher Priest
            ChristopherPriest@...


            --- On Mon, 3/2/09, Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@...> wrote:

            > From: Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@...>
            > Subject: Re: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
            > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Received: Monday, March 2, 2009, 7:31 PM
            > While that may be true a revert to history would be more
            > reasonable.
            >
            > It seems though from the deleter's comments that the
            > lack of reference to published literature was the main
            > problem along with significance. The article was viewed as
            > being on a minor historical event.
            >
            > I object more to being removed from the list of browser
            > games. As a currently active game we should be listed there.
            > And since every game there has it's own page...
            >
            > I'll be pursuing it further.
            >
            > One problem is that my research showed that the game was
            > released in
            > February 1995 on the roxen(or ...) server and that it was
            > in limited beta testing starting in Oct 1994. That was
            > according to sylvan(sp). Only bigB thought it came out 2
            > years earlier in 1993.
            >
            > Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have
            > graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser
            > which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue
            > & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as
            > text based.
            >
            > /Christopher Priest
            > ChristopherPriest@...
            >
            >
            > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Greg Nord
            > <life.incarnate@...> wrote:
            >
            > > From: Greg Nord <life.incarnate@...>
            > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
            > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
            > > Received: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
            > > Yeah, the last time i saw Wikipedia's article
            > about
            > > Stellar Crisis,
            > > someone had rewritten the whole thing, and used the
            > article
            > > to
            > > promote one particular empire. Not a good idea.
            > >
            > > And...
            > >
            > > Catfish don't have true scales.
            > >
            > > -- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
            > "Paul"
            > > <wretch_sc@...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Here's a start.
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > http://homeserve.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
            > > "philltrump"
            > > > <philltrump@> wrote:
            > > > >
            > > > > Well i can help with the project if needed.
            > i
            > > know i have not
            > > played on
            > > > > a server in awhile but have been getting
            > real
            > > good with wiki
            > > code. If
            > > > > someone wants to start working on a page i
            > have
            > > no problem
            > > helping out.
            > > > > Also, i may come back and play but Warhammer
            > had
            > > taking all my
            > > time : D
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > ------------------------------------
            > >
            > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting
            > each
            > > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo!
            > Groups
            > > Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            > __________________________________________________________________
            > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download
            > required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web
            > BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
            > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
            > Links
            >
            >
            >

            __________________________________________________________________
            Instant Messaging, free SMS, sharing photos and more... Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger at http://ca.beta.messenger.yahoo.com/
          • Paul
            Part of the confusion may be that Stellar Crisis was originally Stellar Conquest but there was a copyright possible problem.
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 3, 2009
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              Part of the confusion may be that Stellar Crisis was originally Stellar Conquest but there was a copyright possible problem.

              http://costik.com/weblog/2003_10_01_blogchive.html

              Welcome to the Stellar Conquest discussion list.

              This list is intended for players of Stellar Conquest (reachable at: http://www.lenox.com/games/sc). This list is unmoderated, so feel free to use it for anything you need, from asking about when a feature will be added, to complaining viciously about a bug, to threatening your enemies with detailed explanations of how you will sauté their entrails before consuming them. Whatever. All us creator types are on the list, so the programmer, artist, etc. are all available to you.

              http://www.stellar-crisis.net/10SCupdates/SC.up.feb.96.html


              URL: http://www.lenox.com/games/sc
              By: Sylvan W. Clebsch, The Lenox Group (Boston, MA)



              http://groups.google.de/group/rec.games.empire/tree/browse_frm/month/1995-04?_done=%2Fgroup%2Frec.games.empire%2Fbrowse_frm%2Fmonth%2F1995-04%3Ffwc%3D1%26&fwc=1



              Original login screen.

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/stellarcrisislair/photos/album/439427398/pic/2109964593/view?picmode=large&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc





              --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > While that may be true a revert to history would be more reasonable.
              >
              > It seems though from the deleter's comments that the lack of reference to published literature was the main problem along with significance. The article was viewed as being on a minor historical event.
              >
              > I object more to being removed from the list of browser games. As a currently active game we should be listed there. And since every game there has it's own page...
              >
              > I'll be pursuing it further.
              >
              > One problem is that my research showed that the game was released in
              > February 1995 on the roxen(or ...) server and that it was in limited beta testing starting in Oct 1994. That was according to sylvan(sp). Only bigB thought it came out 2 years earlier in 1993.
              >
              > Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.
              >
              > /Christopher Priest
              > ChristopherPriest@...
              >
              >
              > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Greg Nord <life.incarnate@...> wrote:
              >
              > > From: Greg Nord <life.incarnate@...>
              > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
              > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
              > > Received: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
              > > Yeah, the last time i saw Wikipedia's article about
              > > Stellar Crisis,
              > > someone had rewritten the whole thing, and used the article
              > > to
              > > promote one particular empire. Not a good idea.
              > >
              > > And...
              > >
              > > Catfish don't have true scales.
              > >
              > > -- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul"
              > > <wretch_sc@> wrote:
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Here's a start.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > http://homeserve.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php?n=Main.HomePage
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
              > > "philltrump"
              > > > <philltrump@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > Well i can help with the project if needed. i
              > > know i have not
              > > played on
              > > > > a server in awhile but have been getting real
              > > good with wiki
              > > code. If
              > > > > someone wants to start working on a page i have
              > > no problem
              > > helping out.
              > > > > Also, i may come back and play but Warhammer had
              > > taking all my
              > > time : D
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
              > > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
              > > Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              > __________________________________________________________________
              > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger.yahoo.com/webmessengerpromo.php
              >
            • Bruce
              BigB does not think SC came out in 1993. BigB KNOWS that it came out sometime in 1992 or earlier because I played it when I still lived in New Jersey. I
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 4, 2009
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                BigB does not think SC came out in 1993.  BigB KNOWS that it came out sometime in 1992 or earlier because I played it when I still lived in New Jersey.  I bought my first house in PA and moved there in August 1992.  The date was an old argument I had with Al Camp (BoP) when he created his otherwise authoritative site and FAQ, the SC-Room.  So any research that shows SC originating after 1992 is missing information.
                 
                The earliest version of SC 1.0 that I am aware of did NOT have Maps or any graphics at all.  In fact, 3D game maps were possible at that time and planets could connect back to other planets on the oppostire side of the map but there was no visual representation in the game.  A web browser that supported graphics was not needed for the earliest version.  I believe that all you had to have was a browser that supported Forms submissions.  SC was written in perl scripts which were lost when the Lenox Group where the Creator, Sylvan W. Clebsch worked went belly up.  Sylvan is apparently now one of the managing partners at Mark Nine Systems http://www.mk9sys.com/team.php
                 
                 
                This was the History page I had at http://www.netreach.net/~berrest/ It was last updated in 03/05/2001
                 
                I have been playing Stellar Crisis as the empire BigB for over 7 years, ever since a friend of mine at work told me he saw it while surfing the web one day. At the time Stellar Crisis was located at lenox.com where the author, Sylvan Clebsch was working. Refinements came hot and heavy in those days. If Sylvan liked an idea, it went into the game. Quite often an idea was mentioned on the sc-talk list in the morning, and by that evening was incorporated into the game. After Lenox went belly up, SC moved to libertynet.com where it resided for a while. After that, SC was in limbo for a while as a search for a new server was being done. The Sellar Crisis code was then GPL'd and two new sites at knotwork.com and lysator came to life. David Hedbor at lysator made a number of refinements to the code. Following that, SC lived on several other servers around the world. Today, at least 5 versions of Stellar Crisis are alive and well on a number of servers. I currently play on the Lugdunum server run by Andy Graves who has done a lot to improve the Stellar Crisis experience. A complete up to date server listing can be found at the SC Room. I have seen the game go through a lot of changes in all of that time and it has evolved quite nicely. There is a fairly large core of regular players now and a multitude of player pages on the web. 
                 

                To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                From: christopherpriest@...
                Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 16:31:08 -0800
                Subject: Re: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia


                While that may be true a revert to history would be more reasonable.

                It seems though from the deleter's comments that the lack of reference to published literature was the main problem along with significance. The article was viewed as being on a minor historical event.

                I object more to being removed from the list of browser games. As a currently active game we should be listed there. And since every game there has it's own page...

                I'll be pursuing it further.

                One problem is that my research showed that the game was released in
                February 1995 on the roxen(or ...) server and that it was in limited beta testing starting in Oct 1994. That was according to sylvan(sp). Only bigB thought it came out 2 years earlier in 1993.

                Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.

                /Christopher Priest
                ChristopherPriest@ yahoo.com

                --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Greg Nord <life.incarnate@ charter.net> wrote:

                > From: Greg Nord <life.incarnate@ charter.net>
                > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
                > To: stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com
                > Received: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
                > Yeah, the last time i saw Wikipedia's article about
                > Stellar Crisis,
                > someone had rewritten the whole thing, and used the article
                > to
                > promote one particular empire. Not a good idea.
                >
                > And...
                >
                > Catfish don't have true scales.
                >
                > -- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Paul"
                > <wretch_sc@. ..> wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > Here's a start.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > http://homeserve. org/pmwiki/ pmwiki.php? n=Main.HomePage
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com,
                > "philltrump"
                > > <philltrump@ > wrote:
                > > >
                > > > Well i can help with the project if needed. i
                > know i have not
                > played on
                > > > a server in awhile but have been getting real
                > good with wiki
                > code. If
                > > > someone wants to start working on a page i have
                > no problem
                > helping out.
                > > > Also, i may come back and play but Warhammer had
                > taking all my
                > time : D
                > > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                >
                > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
                > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
                > Links
                >
                >
                >

                ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php



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              • Bruce
                That s correct, there was a board game called Stellar Conquest. To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com From: wretch_sc@yahoo.com Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 04:44:12
                Message 7 of 20 , Mar 4, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  That's correct, there was a board game called Stellar Conquest.
                   

                  To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                  From: wretch_sc@...
                  Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 04:44:12 +0000
                  Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia

                  Part of the confusion may be that Stellar Crisis was originally Stellar Conquest but there was a copyright possible problem.

                  http://costik. com/weblog/ 2003_10_01_ blogchive. html

                  Welcome to the Stellar Conquest discussion list.

                  This list is intended for players of Stellar Conquest (reachable at: http://www.lenox. com/games/ sc). This list is unmoderated, so feel free to use it for anything you need, from asking about when a feature will be added, to complaining viciously about a bug, to threatening your enemies with detailed explanations of how you will sauté their entrails before consuming them. Whatever. All us creator types are on the list, so the programmer, artist, etc. are all available to you.

                  http://www.stellar- crisis.net/ 10SCupdates/ SC.up.feb. 96.html

                  URL: http://www.lenox. com/games/ sc
                  By: Sylvan W. Clebsch, The Lenox Group (Boston, MA)

                  http://groups. google.de/ group/rec. games.empire/ tree/browse_ frm/month/ 1995-04?_ done=%2Fgroup% 2Frec.games. empire%2Fbrowse_ frm%2Fmonth% 2F1995-04% 3Ffwc%3D1% 26&fwc=1

                  Original login screen.

                  http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/stellarcri sislair/photos/ album/439427398/ pic/2109964593/ view?picmode= large&mode= tn&order= ordinal&start= 1&dir=asc

                  --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > While that may be true a revert to history would be more reasonable.
                  >
                  > It seems though from the deleter's comments that the lack of reference to published literature was the main problem along with significance. The article was viewed as being on a minor historical event.
                  >
                  > I object more to being removed from the list of browser games. As a currently active game we should be listed there. And since every game there has it's own page...
                  >
                  > I'll be pursuing it further.
                  >
                  > One problem is that my research showed that the game was released in
                  > February 1995 on the roxen(or ...) server and that it was in limited beta testing starting in Oct 1994. That was according to sylvan(sp). Only bigB thought it came out 2 years earlier in 1993.
                  >
                  > Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.
                  >
                  > /Christopher Priest
                  > ChristopherPriest@ ...
                  >
                  >
                  > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, Greg Nord <life.incarnate@ ...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > From: Greg Nord <life.incarnate@ ...>
                  > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
                  > > To: stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com
                  > > Received: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 12:15 PM
                  > > Yeah, the last time i saw Wikipedia's article about
                  > > Stellar Crisis,
                  > > someone had rewritten the whole thing, and used the article
                  > > to
                  > > promote one particular empire. Not a good idea.
                  > >
                  > > And...
                  > >
                  > > Catfish don't have true scales.
                  > >
                  > > -- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, "Paul"
                  > > <wretch_sc@> wrote:
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Here's a start.
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > http://homeserve. org/pmwiki/ pmwiki.php? n=Main.HomePage
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > >
                  > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com,
                  > > "philltrump"
                  > > > <philltrump@ > wrote:
                  > > > >
                  > > > > Well i can help with the project if needed. i
                  > > know i have not
                  > > played on
                  > > > > a server in awhile but have been getting real
                  > > good with wiki
                  > > code. If
                  > > > > someone wants to start working on a page i have
                  > > no problem
                  > > helping out.
                  > > > > Also, i may come back and play but Warhammer had
                  > > taking all my
                  > > time : D
                  > > > > >
                  > > > >
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ------------ --------- --------- ------
                  > >
                  > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
                  > > other mercilessly into smoldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
                  > > Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _________ _
                  > Connect with friends from any web browser - no download required. Try the new Yahoo! Canada Messenger for the Web BETA at http://ca.messenger .yahoo.com/ webmessengerprom o.php
                  >




                  Windows Live™ Contacts: Organize your contact list. Check it out.
                • backstabber_sc
                  ... Ah, Colossal Cave! What memories. I played it back in the early 80s, a single-player game (on a IBM 3031 VM mainframe). Can you say xyzzy? Still
                  Message 8 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.
                    >

                    Ah, Colossal Cave! What memories. I played it back in the early 80s, a single-player game (on a IBM 3031 VM mainframe). Can you say xyzzy? Still remember killing the bear with my "bare" hands, lol.

                    But then before that, there were some games from about 1978 that I played on a Univac (don't recall what one, maybe 1108?). The old single player Star Trek game. A 2-player dogfight Star Trek game, Enterprise vs. Klingon ship. 2-Player "weather wars" trying to destroy the other's base with tornado / hail / lightening, similar to mortar war or Gorilla. A multi-player car racing game (which was all text). And blind chess...

                    Then before that (my earliest computer gaming), a multi-player air combat game, played from a dial-up connection to a computer at (I think) Tracor back in early 1976. It even had "graphics" in that the planes were dots on an x-y grid, a separate altitude plot, and text updates. Someone else can probably provide earlier examples.

                    SC is not the first multi-player computer game by a long shot. But that isn't the claim. The claim is "Stellar Crisis was the first free, interactive war game to hit the Net, making its appearance approximately February 1993."

                    BackStabber
                  • Bruce
                    The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated. To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:18:55 +0000
                    Message 9 of 20 , Mar 5, 2009
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                      The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.
                       

                      To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                      From: no_reply@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Fri, 6 Mar 2009 07:18:55 +0000
                      Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia

                      --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, Christopher Priest <christopherpriest@ ...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does that still make us first? Did the initial game have graphics? Because graphics would require the Mozilla browser which came out in later 1993. You have been eaten by a Gnue & Colossal Cave would likely have come out in 1990 as text based.
                      >

                      Ah, Colossal Cave! What memories. I played it back in the early 80s, a single-player game (on a IBM 3031 VM mainframe). Can you say xyzzy? Still remember killing the bear with my "bare" hands, lol.

                      But then before that, there were some games from about 1978 that I played on a Univac (don't recall what one, maybe 1108?). The old single player Star Trek game. A 2-player dogfight Star Trek game, Enterprise vs. Klingon ship. 2-Player "weather wars" trying to destroy the other's base with tornado / hail / lightening, similar to mortar war or Gorilla. A multi-player car racing game (which was all text). And blind chess...

                      Then before that (my earliest computer gaming), a multi-player air combat game, played from a dial-up connection to a computer at (I think) Tracor back in early 1976. It even had "graphics" in that the planes were dots on an x-y grid, a separate altitude plot, and text updates. Someone else can probably provide earlier examples.

                      SC is not the first multi-player computer game by a long shot. But that isn't the claim. The claim is "Stellar Crisis was the first free, interactive war game to hit the Net, making its appearance approximately February 1993."

                      BackStabber




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                    • backstabber_sc
                      ... I wouldn t presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested
                      Message 10 of 20 , Mar 6, 2009
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                        --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.

                        I wouldn't presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested by various old-timers. The statement I posted was just the first I could find. I do recall playing some online games in the early 90s on dial-up BBS's. If SC origins are old enough, I can imagine the game starting that way, and then migrating to the web. I only mention this to point out that "origin date" could be a semantic argument in which the facts are agreed, but the meaning of the terms is at issue.
                      • Paul
                        Here is an old links page I found, listing: Stellar Conquest, a multiplayer game of strategic conquest. By something called the Lenox Group. Still in beta
                        Message 11 of 20 , Mar 6, 2009
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                          Here is an old links page I found, listing:



                          Stellar Conquest, a multiplayer game of strategic conquest. By something called the Lenox Group. Still in beta testing.

                          http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~bstilman/moregames.html

                          The page list dozens of games that were available at the time. No date on the page. Many of the links seem to be to colleges (edu). My memory was there were many simple games mostly board and casino games. But Stellar Crisis was free and designed for the web as opposed to games that were being converted.












                          --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, backstabber_sc <no_reply@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.
                          >
                          > I wouldn't presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested by various old-timers. The statement I posted was just the first I could find. I do recall playing some online games in the early 90s on dial-up BBS's. If SC origins are old enough, I can imagine the game starting that way, and then migrating to the web. I only mention this to point out that "origin date" could be a semantic argument in which the facts are agreed, but the meaning of the terms is at issue.
                          >
                        • Bruce
                          Stellar Conquest of course was the original name of SC. He changed it to Stellar Crisis because of the board game. The Lenox Group was where the Creator,
                          Message 12 of 20 , Mar 6, 2009
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                            Stellar Conquest of course was the original name of SC.  He changed it to Stellar Crisis because of the board game.  The Lenox Group was where the Creator, Sylvan W. Clebsch worked.  He ran the original versions of SC written in perl scripts from their server.  Unfortunately, those scripts were lost.  I have posted about all this previously.  That post may say it was beta, but it was open to the public and playable.  What I don't understand is why it keeps coming up as if no one believed me.
                             
                            I'd love to see the newer players on the original version where you only had attack, science and colony techs.  An attack cost the same to build as now but each additional tech cost 25 more.  So you could build an Att/Sci/Col ship, explore to a point and then drop a col there.
                             
                             
                            Oh two more things...
                             
                            1. You had to win a game in order to register your empire name.  If you didn't win, you did not have the name. 
                             
                            2. All games were one winner only.  There was no such thing as alliance.
                             
                            BigB - Certified Old Timer...I was there
                             

                            To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                            From: wretch_sc@...
                            Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 00:39:22 +0000
                            Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia

                            Here is an old links page I found, listing:

                            Stellar Conquest, a multiplayer game of strategic conquest. By something called the Lenox Group. Still in beta testing.

                            http://carbon. cudenver. edu/~bstilman/ moregames. html

                            The page list dozens of games that were available at the time. No date on the page. Many of the links seem to be to colleges (edu). My memory was there were many simple games mostly board and casino games. But Stellar Crisis was free and designed for the web as opposed to games that were being converted.

                            --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, backstabber_ sc <no_reply@.. .> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com, Bruce <therealbigb@ > wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.
                            >
                            > I wouldn't presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested by various old-timers. The statement I posted was just the first I could find. I do recall playing some online games in the early 90s on dial-up BBS's. If SC origins are old enough, I can imagine the game starting that way, and then migrating to the web. I only mention this to point out that "origin date" could be a semantic argument in which the facts are agreed, but the meaning of the terms is at issue.
                            >




                            Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®. See how.
                          • Dan
                            ... Oh two more things... 1. You had to win a game in order to register your empire name. If you didn t win, you did not have the name. 2. All games were one
                            Message 13 of 20 , Mar 7, 2009
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                               …..

                              Oh two more things...
                               
                              1. You had to win a game in order to register your empire name.  If you didn't win, you did not have the name. 
                               
                              2. All games were one winner only.  There was no such thing as alliance.
                               
                              BigB - Certified Old Timer...I was there

                              …Uphill!  Through the Snow!!  BOTH ways!!! <grin>

                               - cyberwitch

                               


                              To: stellarcrisisclub@ yahoogroups. com

                            • Paul
                              I didn t think it was a matter of belief but of confirmation for the Wiki. And I thought some might be searching for old mentions of Stellar Crisis when
                              Message 14 of 20 , Mar 7, 2009
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                                I didn't think it was a matter of belief but of confirmation for the Wiki. And I thought some might be searching for old mentions of 'Stellar Crisis' when they should be searching for 'Stellar Conquest'.

                                From time to time, we may even pick up a new member and it might be interesting for them to know some of the history.

                                In any case, I have posted some links which show the game very early and what other games were available at the time.












                                --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > Stellar Conquest of course was the original name of SC. He changed it to Stellar Crisis because of the board game. The Lenox Group was where the Creator, Sylvan W. Clebsch worked. He ran the original versions of SC written in perl scripts from their server. Unfortunately, those scripts were lost. I have posted about all this previously. That post may say it was beta, but it was open to the public and playable. What I don't understand is why it keeps coming up as if no one believed me.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I'd love to see the newer players on the original version where you only had attack, science and colony techs. An attack cost the same to build as now but each additional tech cost 25 more. So you could build an Att/Sci/Col ship, explore to a point and then drop a col there.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Oh two more things...
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > 1. You had to win a game in order to register your empire name. If you didn't win, you did not have the name.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > 2. All games were one winner only. There was no such thing as alliance.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > BigB - Certified Old Timer...I was there
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                                > From: wretch_sc@...
                                > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 00:39:22 +0000
                                > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Here is an old links page I found, listing:
                                >
                                > Stellar Conquest, a multiplayer game of strategic conquest. By something called the Lenox Group. Still in beta testing.
                                >
                                > http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~bstilman/moregames.html
                                >
                                > The page list dozens of games that were available at the time. No date on the page. Many of the links seem to be to colleges (edu). My memory was there were many simple games mostly board and casino games. But Stellar Crisis was free and designed for the web as opposed to games that were being converted.
                                >
                                > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, backstabber_sc <no_reply@> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@> wrote:
                                > > >
                                > > >
                                > > > The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.
                                > >
                                > > I wouldn't presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested by various old-timers. The statement I posted was just the first I could find. I do recall playing some online games in the early 90s on dial-up BBS's. If SC origins are old enough, I can imagine the game starting that way, and then migrating to the web. I only mention this to point out that "origin date" could be a semantic argument in which the facts are agreed, but the meaning of the terms is at issue.
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > _________________________________________________________________
                                > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.
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                                >
                              • Ryan
                                I remember doing some work for the wiki back in 2005, and then seeing it sometime in 2008 and everything had been changed. reading that wiki deletion comments
                                Message 15 of 20 , Mar 10, 2009
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                                  I remember doing some work for the wiki back in 2005, and then seeing it sometime in 2008 and everything had been changed.

                                  reading that wiki deletion comments page made my stomach turn. Hello, we're still here!

                                  gw


                                  --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <wretch_sc@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I didn't think it was a matter of belief but of confirmation for the Wiki. And I thought some might be searching for old mentions of 'Stellar Crisis' when they should be searching for 'Stellar Conquest'.
                                  >
                                  > From time to time, we may even pick up a new member and it might be interesting for them to know some of the history.
                                  >
                                  > In any case, I have posted some links which show the game very early and what other games were available at the time.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Stellar Conquest of course was the original name of SC. He changed it to Stellar Crisis because of the board game. The Lenox Group was where the Creator, Sylvan W. Clebsch worked. He ran the original versions of SC written in perl scripts from their server. Unfortunately, those scripts were lost. I have posted about all this previously. That post may say it was beta, but it was open to the public and playable. What I don't understand is why it keeps coming up as if no one believed me.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > I'd love to see the newer players on the original version where you only had attack, science and colony techs. An attack cost the same to build as now but each additional tech cost 25 more. So you could build an Att/Sci/Col ship, explore to a point and then drop a col there.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Oh two more things...
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > 1. You had to win a game in order to register your empire name. If you didn't win, you did not have the name.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > 2. All games were one winner only. There was no such thing as alliance.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > BigB - Certified Old Timer...I was there
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                                  > > From: wretch_sc@
                                  > > Date: Sat, 7 Mar 2009 00:39:22 +0000
                                  > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Wikipedia
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > Here is an old links page I found, listing:
                                  > >
                                  > > Stellar Conquest, a multiplayer game of strategic conquest. By something called the Lenox Group. Still in beta testing.
                                  > >
                                  > > http://carbon.cudenver.edu/~bstilman/moregames.html
                                  > >
                                  > > The page list dozens of games that were available at the time. No date on the page. Many of the links seem to be to colleges (edu). My memory was there were many simple games mostly board and casino games. But Stellar Crisis was free and designed for the web as opposed to games that were being converted.
                                  > >
                                  > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, backstabber_sc <no_reply@> wrote:
                                  > > >
                                  > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Bruce <therealbigb@> wrote:
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > >
                                  > > > > The claim however is still INCORRECTLY dated.
                                  > > >
                                  > > > I wouldn't presume to debate the origin date, not having been playing SC then. I have no clue of the actual date, but have seen multiple dates suggested by various old-timers. The statement I posted was just the first I could find. I do recall playing some online games in the early 90s on dial-up BBS's. If SC origins are old enough, I can imagine the game starting that way, and then migrating to the web. I only mention this to point out that "origin date" could be a semantic argument in which the facts are agreed, but the meaning of the terms is at issue.
                                  > > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > _________________________________________________________________
                                  > > Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail®.
                                  > > http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme
                                  > >
                                  >
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