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[Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?

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  • sc_lucky
    My proposal to treat shared systems like explored systems was mainly to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations). But I see your point. I think your
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 1, 2008
      My proposal to treat shared systems like explored systems was mainly
      to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations). But I see your
      point.
      I think your approach, to treat any shared systems where I had any
      ship on (not only scies), as "explored by myself" would be really
      good solution. All those systems would then be shared to my SHQ
      parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships would not stand
      in the nirvana ;)

      For the history of the game: indeed I have not "explored" any of
      those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with ShockTM. On the
      western system I had ships already (I have already colonized it) but
      I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes the difference.

      --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest
      <christopherpriest@...> wrote:
      >
      > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a shared HQ bug.
      > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot see it properly.
      >
      > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains why Israel can
      explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is dead.
      >
      > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates from Lucky on a one
      or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated at least when
      entering shared.
      >
      > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting report sent at
      about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I didn't check
      when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have been updated
      automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why the scouting report.
      >
      > I've saved a copy of the current database to see if that will help
      figure it out.
      >
      > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first bug report since
      I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly tone>It would help us
      all if you can supply details of bugs when you see them.</Friendly
      tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests but no bugs.
      >
      > Because this is the first report in four months, I'm also
      considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous shared hq bugs
      were quite solid and affected everyone.
      >
      > The reported behaviour when dropping out of shared puzzles me but
      apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you get to see
      systems explored by your partner and get free passage without having
      to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to explore those
      systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that access and non-
      sci ships get stranded.
      >
      > It would make more sense to me that if you were shared in turn 20
      and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would see all those
      systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No more updates
      to system status. But every system a ship of yours visited should be
      considered as explored. The rest would be grey like normal scouting
      reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ. (If I tell you,
      I'll have to kill you!)
      >
      > >>I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at shared
      HQ
      > >>are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it first.
      Means
      > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all the
      systems
      > >>of P3
      > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as it would be a real
      unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire opposing team's
      map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one traitor.
      >
      > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@...
      >
      >
      > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      >
      > > From: sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
      > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
      > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
      > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
      > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
      > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume there are 3
      > > players: P1, P2, P3.
      > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1 and P3 have not
      > > yet met when
      > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems explored by P1 (as
      > > if he has
      > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see them (only
      > > scouting reports).
      > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those originally
      > > explored by
      > > P1. The north and west are also originally explored by P1.
      > > The north
      > > is foe land, the west is in between colonized by P2. The
      > > sci of P3 can
      > > "explore" north but not west. But he can
      > > "move" to the west (if I
      > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot verify it
      > > myself).
      > > BTW, I am P2.
      > >
      > > I think there is some lack of design in the Shared HQ. Once
      > > in a game
      > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the same), I switched
      > > back to Ally
      > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no longer see all the
      > > system
      > > which had been explored by my friends initially, although I
      > > had ships
      > > there.
      > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve is (game
      > > described above),
      > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I cannot make it
      > > (explored)
      > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind of ship I move
      > > over it.
      > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my friends would
      > > see it as
      > > explored.
      > >
      > > I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at
      > > shared HQ
      > > are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it
      > > first and
      > > whether I have met that person directly or not. Means if P1
      > > is at SHQ
      > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all the systems of
      > > P3 and vice
      > > versa. And once it is "explored" it never looses
      > > this status.
      > >
      > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Loren"
      > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > One of the links must have been closed with an
      > > engineer. Sometimes the
      > > > link image doesn't disappear after it is closed.
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
      > > Chauca
      > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > Hi there!
      > > > >
      > > > > Any reason why a science might not be able to
      > > explore a system
      > > with an
      > > > > open link? there are two unexplored systems but
      > > the science only one
      > > > > can be explored. This is in a Homeserve game.
      > > > >
      > > > > Israel
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------------------------------
      > >
      > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
      > > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
      > > Links
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
    • backstabber_sc
      In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger advantage than the eco advantage they normally have. I m not a huge fan of it (but know a lot of
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 2, 2008
        In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger advantage
        than the eco advantage they normally have. I'm not a huge fan of it
        (but know a lot of people like it), so to me anything that weakens
        that advantage is beneficial. It's certainly helpful when fighting
        a larger alliance and managing to nuke one to have their other ships
        stranded. And having equal access to their systems also helps,
        since we both have to race to explore/colonize.

        I don't think any ship should be able to make a system as "explored"
        only science ships, even for systems you already know from Shared-
        HQ. I think you should still have to deploy a science to render the
        system as explored.

        BackStabber


        --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, sc_lucky <no_reply@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > My proposal to treat shared systems like explored systems was
        mainly
        > to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations). But I see
        your
        > point.
        > I think your approach, to treat any shared systems where I had any
        > ship on (not only scies), as "explored by myself" would be really
        > good solution. All those systems would then be shared to my SHQ
        > parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships would not
        stand
        > in the nirvana ;)
        >
        > For the history of the game: indeed I have not "explored" any of
        > those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with ShockTM. On
        the
        > western system I had ships already (I have already colonized it)
        but
        > I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes the
        difference.
        >
        > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest
        > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a shared HQ bug.
        > > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot see it properly.
        > >
        > > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains why Israel can
        > explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is dead.
        > >
        > > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates from Lucky on a
        one
        > or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated at least when
        > entering shared.
        > >
        > > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting report sent at
        > about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I didn't
        check
        > when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have been updated
        > automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why the scouting report.
        > >
        > > I've saved a copy of the current database to see if that will
        help
        > figure it out.
        > >
        > > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first bug report
        since
        > I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly tone>It would help
        us
        > all if you can supply details of bugs when you see them.</Friendly
        > tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests but no bugs.
        > >
        > > Because this is the first report in four months, I'm also
        > considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous shared hq
        bugs
        > were quite solid and affected everyone.
        > >
        > > The reported behaviour when dropping out of shared puzzles me
        but
        > apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you get to see
        > systems explored by your partner and get free passage without
        having
        > to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to explore those
        > systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that access and non-
        > sci ships get stranded.
        > >
        > > It would make more sense to me that if you were shared in turn
        20
        > and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would see all those
        > systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No more
        updates
        > to system status. But every system a ship of yours visited should
        be
        > considered as explored. The rest would be grey like normal
        scouting
        > reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ. (If I tell you,
        > I'll have to kill you!)
        > >
        > > >>I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at
        shared
        > HQ
        > > >>are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it first.
        > Means
        > > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all the
        > systems
        > > >>of P3
        > > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as it would be a real
        > unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire opposing
        team's
        > map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one traitor.
        > >
        > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
        > >
        > >
        > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        > >
        > > > From: sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
        > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
        > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
        > > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
        > > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
        > > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume there are 3
        > > > players: P1, P2, P3.
        > > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1 and P3 have not
        > > > yet met when
        > > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems explored by P1 (as
        > > > if he has
        > > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see them (only
        > > > scouting reports).
        > > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those originally
        > > > explored by
        > > > P1. The north and west are also originally explored by P1.
        > > > The north
        > > > is foe land, the west is in between colonized by P2. The
        > > > sci of P3 can
        > > > "explore" north but not west. But he can
        > > > "move" to the west (if I
        > > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot verify it
        > > > myself).
        > > > BTW, I am P2.
        > > >
        > > > I think there is some lack of design in the Shared HQ. Once
        > > > in a game
        > > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the same), I switched
        > > > back to Ally
        > > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no longer see all the
        > > > system
        > > > which had been explored by my friends initially, although I
        > > > had ships
        > > > there.
        > > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve is (game
        > > > described above),
        > > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I cannot make it
        > > > (explored)
        > > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind of ship I move
        > > > over it.
        > > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my friends would
        > > > see it as
        > > > explored.
        > > >
        > > > I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at
        > > > shared HQ
        > > > are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it
        > > > first and
        > > > whether I have met that person directly or not. Means if P1
        > > > is at SHQ
        > > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all the systems of
        > > > P3 and vice
        > > > versa. And once it is "explored" it never looses
        > > > this status.
        > > >
        > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Loren"
        > > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
        > > > >
        > > > > One of the links must have been closed with an
        > > > engineer. Sometimes the
        > > > > link image doesn't disappear after it is closed.
        > > > >
        > > > >
        > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
        > > > Chauca
        > > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Hi there!
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Any reason why a science might not be able to
        > > > explore a system
        > > > with an
        > > > > > open link? there are two unexplored systems but
        > > > the science only one
        > > > > > can be explored. This is in a Homeserve game.
        > > > > >
        > > > > > Israel
        > > > > >
        > > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > > > ------------------------------------
        > > >
        > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
        > > > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
        > > > Links
        > > >
        > > >
        > > >
        > >
        >
      • Greg Nord
        i agree with BackStabber here. In part, parcel and in whole. And that s a bit distressing to me on at least two levels: One, i m a clean Gene kinda player,
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 2, 2008
          i agree with BackStabber here. In part, parcel and in whole. And
          that's a bit distressing to me on at least two levels:

          One, i'm a "clean Gene" kinda player, and i'm wholeheartedly agreeing
          with someone named "BackStabber." :^o
          Two, i thought i was more of a maverick than this. ;^)

          And...

          1878 was a big year. Henrey Tibes patented the corncob pipe. The
          first sugar cubes were put out by a London refinery. Smallpox hit
          Deadwood in the Dakota Territory. A well-known 26-year-old
          frontierswoman named Martha Jane Canary, decked out in men's
          clothing, worked heroically to nurse the dying. Never heard of her?
          She was nick-named Calamity Jane.

          --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, backstabber_sc
          <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger advantage
          > than the eco advantage they normally have. I'm not a huge fan of
          it
          > (but know a lot of people like it), so to me anything that weakens
          > that advantage is beneficial. It's certainly helpful when fighting
          > a larger alliance and managing to nuke one to have their other
          ships
          > stranded. And having equal access to their systems also helps,
          > since we both have to race to explore/colonize.
          >
          > I don't think any ship should be able to make a system
          as "explored"
          > only science ships, even for systems you already know from Shared-
          > HQ. I think you should still have to deploy a science to render
          the
          > system as explored.
          >
          > BackStabber
          >
          >
          > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, sc_lucky <no_reply@>
          > wrote:
          > >
          > > My proposal to treat shared systems like explored systems was
          > mainly
          > > to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations). But I see
          > your
          > > point.
          > > I think your approach, to treat any shared systems where I had
          any
          > > ship on (not only scies), as "explored by myself" would be really
          > > good solution. All those systems would then be shared to my SHQ
          > > parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships would not
          > stand
          > > in the nirvana ;)
          > >
          > > For the history of the game: indeed I have not "explored" any of
          > > those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with ShockTM. On
          > the
          > > western system I had ships already (I have already colonized it)
          > but
          > > I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes the
          > difference.
          > >
          > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest
          > > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a shared HQ bug.
          > > > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot see it properly.
          > > >
          > > > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains why Israel can
          > > explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is dead.
          > > >
          > > > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates from Lucky on a
          > one
          > > or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated at least
          when
          > > entering shared.
          > > >
          > > > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting report sent at
          > > about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I didn't
          > check
          > > when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have been updated
          > > automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why the scouting
          report.
          > > >
          > > > I've saved a copy of the current database to see if that will
          > help
          > > figure it out.
          > > >
          > > > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first bug report
          > since
          > > I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly tone>It would help
          > us
          > > all if you can supply details of bugs when you see
          them.</Friendly
          > > tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests but no bugs.
          > > >
          > > > Because this is the first report in four months, I'm also
          > > considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous shared hq
          > bugs
          > > were quite solid and affected everyone.
          > > >
          > > > The reported behaviour when dropping out of shared puzzles me
          > but
          > > apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you get to see
          > > systems explored by your partner and get free passage without
          > having
          > > to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to explore those
          > > systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that access and
          non-
          > > sci ships get stranded.
          > > >
          > > > It would make more sense to me that if you were shared in turn
          > 20
          > > and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would see all
          those
          > > systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No more
          > updates
          > > to system status. But every system a ship of yours visited should
          > be
          > > considered as explored. The rest would be grey like normal
          > scouting
          > > reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ. (If I tell
          you,
          > > I'll have to kill you!)
          > > >
          > > > >>I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at
          > shared
          > > HQ
          > > > >>are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it
          first.
          > > Means
          > > > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all
          the
          > > systems
          > > > >>of P3
          > > > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as it would be a real
          > > unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire opposing
          > team's
          > > map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one traitor.
          > > >
          > > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
          > > >
          > > >
          > > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > > From: sc_lucky <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
          > > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
          > > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
          > > > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
          > > > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
          > > > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume there are 3
          > > > > players: P1, P2, P3.
          > > > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1 and P3 have not
          > > > > yet met when
          > > > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems explored by P1 (as
          > > > > if he has
          > > > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see them (only
          > > > > scouting reports).
          > > > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those originally
          > > > > explored by
          > > > > P1. The north and west are also originally explored by P1.
          > > > > The north
          > > > > is foe land, the west is in between colonized by P2. The
          > > > > sci of P3 can
          > > > > "explore" north but not west. But he can
          > > > > "move" to the west (if I
          > > > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot verify it
          > > > > myself).
          > > > > BTW, I am P2.
          > > > >
          > > > > I think there is some lack of design in the Shared HQ. Once
          > > > > in a game
          > > > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the same), I switched
          > > > > back to Ally
          > > > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no longer see all the
          > > > > system
          > > > > which had been explored by my friends initially, although I
          > > > > had ships
          > > > > there.
          > > > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve is (game
          > > > > described above),
          > > > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I cannot make it
          > > > > (explored)
          > > > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind of ship I move
          > > > > over it.
          > > > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my friends would
          > > > > see it as
          > > > > explored.
          > > > >
          > > > > I think best would be if all systems I see as explored at
          > > > > shared HQ
          > > > > are treated as explored, regardless who has explored it
          > > > > first and
          > > > > whether I have met that person directly or not. Means if P1
          > > > > is at SHQ
          > > > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all the systems of
          > > > > P3 and vice
          > > > > versa. And once it is "explored" it never looses
          > > > > this status.
          > > > >
          > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, "Loren"
          > > > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
          > > > > >
          > > > > > One of the links must have been closed with an
          > > > > engineer. Sometimes the
          > > > > > link image doesn't disappear after it is closed.
          > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
          > > > > Chauca
          > > > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Hi there!
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Any reason why a science might not be able to
          > > > > explore a system
          > > > > with an
          > > > > > > open link? there are two unexplored systems but
          > > > > the science only one
          > > > > > > can be explored. This is in a Homeserve game.
          > > > > > >
          > > > > > > Israel
          > > > > > >
          > > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > > ------------------------------------
          > > > >
          > > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
          > > > > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
          > > > > Links
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > > >
          > > >
          > >
          >
        • Christopher Priest
          Do you think you should be able to continue exploring after entering shared? I think I can see the point of view that if you go somewhere just because someone
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 2, 2008
            Do you think you should be able to continue exploring after entering shared?
            I think I can see the point of view that if you go somewhere just because someone told you you could, you take the risk of getting stranded.

            Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@...


            --- On Tue, 9/2/08, backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

            > From: backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
            > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 9:59 AM
            > In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger
            > advantage
            > than the eco advantage they normally have. I'm not a
            > huge fan of it
            > (but know a lot of people like it), so to me anything that
            > weakens
            > that advantage is beneficial. It's certainly helpful
            > when fighting
            > a larger alliance and managing to nuke one to have their
            > other ships
            > stranded. And having equal access to their systems also
            > helps,
            > since we both have to race to explore/colonize.
            >
            > I don't think any ship should be able to make a system
            > as "explored"
            > only science ships, even for systems you already know from
            > Shared-
            > HQ. I think you should still have to deploy a science to
            > render the
            > system as explored.
            >
            > BackStabber
            >
            >
            > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, sc_lucky
            > <no_reply@...>
            > wrote:
            > >
            > > My proposal to treat shared systems like explored
            > systems was
            > mainly
            > > to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations).
            > But I see
            > your
            > > point.
            > > I think your approach, to treat any shared systems
            > where I had any
            > > ship on (not only scies), as "explored by
            > myself" would be really
            > > good solution. All those systems would then be shared
            > to my SHQ
            > > parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships
            > would not
            > stand
            > > in the nirvana ;)
            > >
            > > For the history of the game: indeed I have not
            > "explored" any of
            > > those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with
            > ShockTM. On
            > the
            > > western system I had ships already (I have already
            > colonized it)
            > but
            > > I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes
            > the
            > difference.
            > >
            > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher
            > Priest
            > > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a
            > shared HQ bug.
            > > > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot
            > see it properly.
            > > >
            > > > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains
            > why Israel can
            > > explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is
            > dead.
            > > >
            > > > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates
            > from Lucky on a
            > one
            > > or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated
            > at least when
            > > entering shared.
            > > >
            > > > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting
            > report sent at
            > > about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I
            > didn't
            > check
            > > when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have
            > been updated
            > > automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why
            > the scouting report.
            > > >
            > > > I've saved a copy of the current database to
            > see if that will
            > help
            > > figure it out.
            > > >
            > > > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first
            > bug report
            > since
            > > I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly
            > tone>It would help
            > us
            > > all if you can supply details of bugs when you see
            > them.</Friendly
            > > tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests
            > but no bugs.
            > > >
            > > > Because this is the first report in four months,
            > I'm also
            > > considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous
            > shared hq
            > bugs
            > > were quite solid and affected everyone.
            > > >
            > > > The reported behaviour when dropping out of
            > shared puzzles me
            > but
            > > apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you
            > get to see
            > > systems explored by your partner and get free passage
            > without
            > having
            > > to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to
            > explore those
            > > systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that
            > access and non-
            > > sci ships get stranded.
            > > >
            > > > It would make more sense to me that if you were
            > shared in turn
            > 20
            > > and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would
            > see all those
            > > systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No
            > more
            > updates
            > > to system status. But every system a ship of yours
            > visited should
            > be
            > > considered as explored. The rest would be grey like
            > normal
            > scouting
            > > reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ.
            > (If I tell you,
            > > I'll have to kill you!)
            > > >
            > > > >>I think best would be if all systems I
            > see as explored at
            > shared
            > > HQ
            > > > >>are treated as explored, regardless who
            > has explored it first.
            > > Means
            > > > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3,
            > then P1 sees all the
            > > systems
            > > > >>of P3
            > > > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as
            > it would be a real
            > > unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire
            > opposing
            > team's
            > > map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one
            > traitor.
            > > >
            > > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky
            > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > > From: sc_lucky
            > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
            > > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re:
            > Science's mutiny?
            > > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
            > > > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
            > > > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
            > > > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume
            > there are 3
            > > > > players: P1, P2, P3.
            > > > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1
            > and P3 have not
            > > > > yet met when
            > > > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems
            > explored by P1 (as
            > > > > if he has
            > > > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see
            > them (only
            > > > > scouting reports).
            > > > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those
            > originally
            > > > > explored by
            > > > > P1. The north and west are also originally
            > explored by P1.
            > > > > The north
            > > > > is foe land, the west is in between
            > colonized by P2. The
            > > > > sci of P3 can
            > > > > "explore" north but not west. But
            > he can
            > > > > "move" to the west (if I
            > > > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot
            > verify it
            > > > > myself).
            > > > > BTW, I am P2.
            > > > >
            > > > > I think there is some lack of design in the
            > Shared HQ. Once
            > > > > in a game
            > > > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the
            > same), I switched
            > > > > back to Ally
            > > > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no
            > longer see all the
            > > > > system
            > > > > which had been explored by my friends
            > initially, although I
            > > > > had ships
            > > > > there.
            > > > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve
            > is (game
            > > > > described above),
            > > > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I
            > cannot make it
            > > > > (explored)
            > > > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind
            > of ship I move
            > > > > over it.
            > > > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my
            > friends would
            > > > > see it as
            > > > > explored.
            > > > >
            > > > > I think best would be if all systems I see
            > as explored at
            > > > > shared HQ
            > > > > are treated as explored, regardless who has
            > explored it
            > > > > first and
            > > > > whether I have met that person directly or
            > not. Means if P1
            > > > > is at SHQ
            > > > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all
            > the systems of
            > > > > P3 and vice
            > > > > versa. And once it is "explored"
            > it never looses
            > > > > this status.
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
            > "Loren"
            > > > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
            > > > > >
            > > > > > One of the links must have been closed
            > with an
            > > > > engineer. Sometimes the
            > > > > > link image doesn't disappear after
            > it is closed.
            > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > > > --- In
            > stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
            > > > > Chauca
            > > > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Hi there!
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Any reason why a science might not
            > be able to
            > > > > explore a system
            > > > > with an
            > > > > > > open link? there are two
            > unexplored systems but
            > > > > the science only one
            > > > > > > can be explored. This is in a
            > Homeserve game.
            > > > > > >
            > > > > > > Israel
            > > > > > >
            > > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > > ------------------------------------
            > > > >
            > > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas,
            > and blasting each
            > > > > other mercilessly into smouldering
            > cinders.Yahoo! Groups
            > > > > Links
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > > >
            > > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
            > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
            > Links
            >
            >
            >
          • backstabber_sc
            Yes. Sciences that move through shared systems should convert those to explored. Other systems remain accessible in their shared status. Then if the
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 3, 2008
              Yes. Sciences that move through "shared" systems should convert
              those to explored. Other systems remain accessible in
              their "shared" status. Then if the owner is nuked or otherwise
              drops shared-hq, you can still access the ones your sci's moved
              through, but not the others. The unexplored systems can still
              remain on your map as a "scouting report" from the last known status.

              BackStabber


              --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest
              <christopherpriest@...> wrote:
              >
              > Do you think you should be able to continue exploring after
              entering shared?
              > I think I can see the point of view that if you go somewhere just
              because someone told you you could, you take the risk of getting
              stranded.
              >
              > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@...
              >
              >
              > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              wrote:
              >
              > > From: backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
              > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
              > > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 9:59 AM
              > > In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger
              > > advantage
              > > than the eco advantage they normally have. I'm not a
              > > huge fan of it
              > > (but know a lot of people like it), so to me anything that
              > > weakens
              > > that advantage is beneficial. It's certainly helpful
              > > when fighting
              > > a larger alliance and managing to nuke one to have their
              > > other ships
              > > stranded. And having equal access to their systems also
              > > helps,
              > > since we both have to race to explore/colonize.
              > >
              > > I don't think any ship should be able to make a system
              > > as "explored"
              > > only science ships, even for systems you already know from
              > > Shared-
              > > HQ. I think you should still have to deploy a science to
              > > render the
              > > system as explored.
              > >
              > > BackStabber
              > >
              > >
              > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, sc_lucky
              > > <no_reply@>
              > > wrote:
              > > >
              > > > My proposal to treat shared systems like explored
              > > systems was
              > > mainly
              > > > to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations).
              > > But I see
              > > your
              > > > point.
              > > > I think your approach, to treat any shared systems
              > > where I had any
              > > > ship on (not only scies), as "explored by
              > > myself" would be really
              > > > good solution. All those systems would then be shared
              > > to my SHQ
              > > > parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships
              > > would not
              > > stand
              > > > in the nirvana ;)
              > > >
              > > > For the history of the game: indeed I have not
              > > "explored" any of
              > > > those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with
              > > ShockTM. On
              > > the
              > > > western system I had ships already (I have already
              > > colonized it)
              > > but
              > > > I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes
              > > the
              > > difference.
              > > >
              > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher
              > > Priest
              > > > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a
              > > shared HQ bug.
              > > > > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot
              > > see it properly.
              > > > >
              > > > > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains
              > > why Israel can
              > > > explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is
              > > dead.
              > > > >
              > > > > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates
              > > from Lucky on a
              > > one
              > > > or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated
              > > at least when
              > > > entering shared.
              > > > >
              > > > > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting
              > > report sent at
              > > > about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I
              > > didn't
              > > check
              > > > when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have
              > > been updated
              > > > automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why
              > > the scouting report.
              > > > >
              > > > > I've saved a copy of the current database to
              > > see if that will
              > > help
              > > > figure it out.
              > > > >
              > > > > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first
              > > bug report
              > > since
              > > > I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly
              > > tone>It would help
              > > us
              > > > all if you can supply details of bugs when you see
              > > them.</Friendly
              > > > tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests
              > > but no bugs.
              > > > >
              > > > > Because this is the first report in four months,
              > > I'm also
              > > > considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous
              > > shared hq
              > > bugs
              > > > were quite solid and affected everyone.
              > > > >
              > > > > The reported behaviour when dropping out of
              > > shared puzzles me
              > > but
              > > > apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you
              > > get to see
              > > > systems explored by your partner and get free passage
              > > without
              > > having
              > > > to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to
              > > explore those
              > > > systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that
              > > access and non-
              > > > sci ships get stranded.
              > > > >
              > > > > It would make more sense to me that if you were
              > > shared in turn
              > > 20
              > > > and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would
              > > see all those
              > > > systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No
              > > more
              > > updates
              > > > to system status. But every system a ship of yours
              > > visited should
              > > be
              > > > considered as explored. The rest would be grey like
              > > normal
              > > scouting
              > > > reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ.
              > > (If I tell you,
              > > > I'll have to kill you!)
              > > > >
              > > > > >>I think best would be if all systems I
              > > see as explored at
              > > shared
              > > > HQ
              > > > > >>are treated as explored, regardless who
              > > has explored it first.
              > > > Means
              > > > > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3,
              > > then P1 sees all the
              > > > systems
              > > > > >>of P3
              > > > > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as
              > > it would be a real
              > > > unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire
              > > opposing
              > > team's
              > > > map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one
              > > traitor.
              > > > >
              > > > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky
              > > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > > > From: sc_lucky
              > > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
              > > > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re:
              > > Science's mutiny?
              > > > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
              > > > > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
              > > > > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
              > > > > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume
              > > there are 3
              > > > > > players: P1, P2, P3.
              > > > > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1
              > > and P3 have not
              > > > > > yet met when
              > > > > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems
              > > explored by P1 (as
              > > > > > if he has
              > > > > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see
              > > them (only
              > > > > > scouting reports).
              > > > > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those
              > > originally
              > > > > > explored by
              > > > > > P1. The north and west are also originally
              > > explored by P1.
              > > > > > The north
              > > > > > is foe land, the west is in between
              > > colonized by P2. The
              > > > > > sci of P3 can
              > > > > > "explore" north but not west. But
              > > he can
              > > > > > "move" to the west (if I
              > > > > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot
              > > verify it
              > > > > > myself).
              > > > > > BTW, I am P2.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I think there is some lack of design in the
              > > Shared HQ. Once
              > > > > > in a game
              > > > > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the
              > > same), I switched
              > > > > > back to Ally
              > > > > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no
              > > longer see all the
              > > > > > system
              > > > > > which had been explored by my friends
              > > initially, although I
              > > > > > had ships
              > > > > > there.
              > > > > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve
              > > is (game
              > > > > > described above),
              > > > > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I
              > > cannot make it
              > > > > > (explored)
              > > > > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind
              > > of ship I move
              > > > > > over it.
              > > > > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my
              > > friends would
              > > > > > see it as
              > > > > > explored.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > I think best would be if all systems I see
              > > as explored at
              > > > > > shared HQ
              > > > > > are treated as explored, regardless who has
              > > explored it
              > > > > > first and
              > > > > > whether I have met that person directly or
              > > not. Means if P1
              > > > > > is at SHQ
              > > > > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all
              > > the systems of
              > > > > > P3 and vice
              > > > > > versa. And once it is "explored"
              > > it never looses
              > > > > > this status.
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
              > > "Loren"
              > > > > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > One of the links must have been closed
              > > with an
              > > > > > engineer. Sometimes the
              > > > > > > link image doesn't disappear after
              > > it is closed.
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > > > --- In
              > > stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
              > > > > > Chauca
              > > > > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Hi there!
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Any reason why a science might not
              > > be able to
              > > > > > explore a system
              > > > > > with an
              > > > > > > > open link? there are two
              > > unexplored systems but
              > > > > > the science only one
              > > > > > > > can be explored. This is in a
              > > Homeserve game.
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > > > Israel
              > > > > > > >
              > > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > > ------------------------------------
              > > > > >
              > > > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas,
              > > and blasting each
              > > > > > other mercilessly into smouldering
              > > cinders.Yahoo! Groups
              > > > > > Links
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > > >
              > > > >
              > > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > > ------------------------------------
              > >
              > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
              > > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
              > > Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
            • sc_lucky
              Guess you misunderstood one point: If your SHQ partner is nuked (as it was for me), the systems are still explored . They loose the explored status only for
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 3, 2008
                Guess you misunderstood one point:
                If your SHQ partner is nuked (as it was for me), the systems are still
                "explored". They loose the "explored" status only for backstabbers
                (means players doing so, not necessary named so ;)

                Your proposal is a strange compromise. Having ships in unexplored
                systems is really crazy. Moreover, currently you see no difference
                between an SHQ system and a really explored system. So you must
                remember well what you have really explored.

                If I would have to make a proposal for a "weak SHQ", I would say, make
                it like an automatic scouting report. Means you see all the explored
                systems of your partner as if he would have send an scouting report,
                but nothing more.

                Nevertheless, I like the current SHQ implementation (without bugs of
                cause). You play it like a strong team. It is enough if one of the
                team explores a system; he shares the map with all his friends.

                Of cause, for a game like I play it now in Lug, where there is a team
                in the center (DM, CB and +Bene) and 3 players outside (Parm, NI and
                me) it would be worse for our team, cause we have no contact. But for
                games with twisted maps (like the one I play currently in HS) it is
                ok, because both sides have the same chances.

                What is a much more edge than the explored systems (and thus a bad
                problem for a team which have not met) is the fact that you can
                stargate ships to systems of your SHQ partner.

                --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, backstabber_sc
                <no_reply@...> wrote:
                >
                > Yes. Sciences that move through "shared" systems should convert
                > those to explored. Other systems remain accessible in
                > their "shared" status. Then if the owner is nuked or otherwise
                > drops shared-hq, you can still access the ones your sci's moved
                > through, but not the others. The unexplored systems can still
                > remain on your map as a "scouting report" from the last known status.
                >
                > BackStabber
                >
                >
                > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Priest
                > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Do you think you should be able to continue exploring after
                > entering shared?
                > > I think I can see the point of view that if you go somewhere just
                > because someone told you you could, you take the risk of getting
                > stranded.
                > >
                > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
                > >
                > >
                > > --- On Tue, 9/2/08, backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > > From: backstabber_sc <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re: Science's mutiny?
                > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                > > > Date: Tuesday, September 2, 2008, 9:59 AM
                > > > In my opinion, Shared-HQ gives alliances an even bigger
                > > > advantage
                > > > than the eco advantage they normally have. I'm not a
                > > > huge fan of it
                > > > (but know a lot of people like it), so to me anything that
                > > > weakens
                > > > that advantage is beneficial. It's certainly helpful
                > > > when fighting
                > > > a larger alliance and managing to nuke one to have their
                > > > other ships
                > > > stranded. And having equal access to their systems also
                > > > helps,
                > > > since we both have to race to explore/colonize.
                > > >
                > > > I don't think any ship should be able to make a system
                > > > as "explored"
                > > > only science ships, even for systems you already know from
                > > > Shared-
                > > > HQ. I think you should still have to deploy a science to
                > > > render the
                > > > system as explored.
                > > >
                > > > BackStabber
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, sc_lucky
                > > > <no_reply@>
                > > > wrote:
                > > > >
                > > > > My proposal to treat shared systems like explored
                > > > systems was
                > > > mainly
                > > > > to keep it simple (and avoid unexpected situations).
                > > > But I see
                > > > your
                > > > > point.
                > > > > I think your approach, to treat any shared systems
                > > > where I had any
                > > > > ship on (not only scies), as "explored by
                > > > myself" would be really
                > > > > good solution. All those systems would then be shared
                > > > to my SHQ
                > > > > parnters. And when the sharing is dropped, my ships
                > > > would not
                > > > stand
                > > > > in the nirvana ;)
                > > > >
                > > > > For the history of the game: indeed I have not
                > > > "explored" any of
                > > > > those systems. I see them because I was at SQH with
                > > > ShockTM. On
                > > > the
                > > > > western system I had ships already (I have already
                > > > colonized it)
                > > > but
                > > > > I was never on the northern system. Maybe this makes
                > > > the
                > > > difference.
                > > > >
                > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Christopher
                > > > Priest
                > > > > <christopherpriest@> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I checked this out for Israel and it is indeed a
                > > > shared HQ bug.
                > > > > > Lucky has explored the system but Israel cannot
                > > > see it properly.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > If as lucky says P1 got nuked then that explains
                > > > why Israel can
                > > > > explore north. He is not in shared with P1 as P1 is
                > > > dead.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The problem is why doesn't he receive updates
                > > > from Lucky on a
                > > > one
                > > > > or a couple of systems. It looks like he got updated
                > > > at least when
                > > > > entering shared.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > He became shared HQ at turn 9 and had a scouting
                > > > report sent at
                > > > > about turn 15. That scouting data shows for him now. I
                > > > didn't
                > > > check
                > > > > when Lucky explored the system. Israel should have
                > > > been updated
                > > > > automatically and wasn't. I suppose that's why
                > > > the scouting report.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > I've saved a copy of the current database to
                > > > see if that will
                > > > help
                > > > > figure it out.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Someone said the code is buggy. This is the first
                > > > bug report
                > > > since
                > > > > I fixed the shared HQ in early May. <Friendly
                > > > tone>It would help
                > > > us
                > > > > all if you can supply details of bugs when you see
                > > > them.</Friendly
                > > > > tone> I've had a couple of enhancement requests
                > > > but no bugs.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Because this is the first report in four months,
                > > > I'm also
                > > > > considering a server glitch as the cause. The previous
                > > > shared hq
                > > > bugs
                > > > > were quite solid and affected everyone.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > The reported behaviour when dropping out of
                > > > shared puzzles me
                > > > but
                > > > > apparently is as designed. Once you enter shared, you
                > > > get to see
                > > > > systems explored by your partner and get free passage
                > > > without
                > > > having
                > > > > to explore them yourself BUT you also don't get to
                > > > explore those
                > > > > systems. When you drop out of shared you loose that
                > > > access and non-
                > > > > sci ships get stranded.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > It would make more sense to me that if you were
                > > > shared in turn
                > > > 20
                > > > > and dropped out of shared then on turn 21 you would
                > > > see all those
                > > > > systems as if you got a scouting report on turn 20. No
                > > > more
                > > > updates
                > > > > to system status. But every system a ship of yours
                > > > visited should
                > > > be
                > > > > considered as explored. The rest would be grey like
                > > > normal
                > > > scouting
                > > > > reports. Or perhaps just you can't quit shared HQ.
                > > > (If I tell you,
                > > > > I'll have to kill you!)
                > > > > >
                > > > > > >>I think best would be if all systems I
                > > > see as explored at
                > > > shared
                > > > > HQ
                > > > > > >>are treated as explored, regardless who
                > > > has explored it first.
                > > > > Means
                > > > > > >>if P1 is at SHQ with P2 , and P2 with P3,
                > > > then P1 sees all the
                > > > > systems
                > > > > > >>of P3
                > > > > > This would be OK if you can't quit shared as
                > > > it would be a real
                > > > > unfair backstab to provide one team with the entire
                > > > opposing
                > > > team's
                > > > > map. Say in a 10 player game with 2 teams and one
                > > > traitor.
                > > > > >
                > > > > > Christopher Priest ChristopherPriest@
                > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > > > --- On Fri, 8/29/08, sc_lucky
                > > > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                > > > > >
                > > > > > > From: sc_lucky
                > > > <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                > > > > > > Subject: [Stellar Crisis Club] Re:
                > > > Science's mutiny?
                > > > > > > To: stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com
                > > > > > > Date: Friday, August 29, 2008, 6:49 PM
                > > > > > > I think, it is a bit more complicated ;)
                > > > > > > The game has shared HQ. Let's assume
                > > > there are 3
                > > > > > > players: P1, P2, P3.
                > > > > > > P2 is at shared HQ with P1 and P3, but P1
                > > > and P3 have not
                > > > > > > yet met when
                > > > > > > P1 is nuked. Now P2 can see all systems
                > > > explored by P1 (as
                > > > > > > if he has
                > > > > > > explored them himself) but P3 cannot see
                > > > them (only
                > > > > > > scouting reports).
                > > > > > > Now P3=Israel has explored a system of those
                > > > originally
                > > > > > > explored by
                > > > > > > P1. The north and west are also originally
                > > > explored by P1.
                > > > > > > The north
                > > > > > > is foe land, the west is in between
                > > > colonized by P2. The
                > > > > > > sci of P3 can
                > > > > > > "explore" north but not west. But
                > > > he can
                > > > > > > "move" to the west (if I
                > > > > > > understood this correctly - indeed I cannot
                > > > verify it
                > > > > > > myself).
                > > > > > > BTW, I am P2.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I think there is some lack of design in the
                > > > Shared HQ. Once
                > > > > > > in a game
                > > > > > > in Iceberg (I don't know if HS is the
                > > > same), I switched
                > > > > > > back to Ally
                > > > > > > by accident. Oh my goodness. I could no
                > > > longer see all the
                > > > > > > system
                > > > > > > which had been explored by my friends
                > > > initially, although I
                > > > > > > had ships
                > > > > > > there.
                > > > > > > Another problem which we have in Homeserve
                > > > is (game
                > > > > > > described above),
                > > > > > > that I can see all systems of P1, but I
                > > > cannot make it
                > > > > > > (explored)
                > > > > > > visible to my friends, regardless which kind
                > > > of ship I move
                > > > > > > over it.
                > > > > > > So if I would not had been at Shared HQ, my
                > > > friends would
                > > > > > > see it as
                > > > > > > explored.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > I think best would be if all systems I see
                > > > as explored at
                > > > > > > shared HQ
                > > > > > > are treated as explored, regardless who has
                > > > explored it
                > > > > > > first and
                > > > > > > whether I have met that person directly or
                > > > not. Means if P1
                > > > > > > is at SHQ
                > > > > > > with P2 , and P2 with P3, then P1 sees all
                > > > the systems of
                > > > > > > P3 and vice
                > > > > > > versa. And once it is "explored"
                > > > it never looses
                > > > > > > this status.
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > --- In stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com,
                > > > "Loren"
                > > > > > > <Bicentennialman2@> wrote:
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > One of the links must have been closed
                > > > with an
                > > > > > > engineer. Sometimes the
                > > > > > > > link image doesn't disappear after
                > > > it is closed.
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > --- In
                > > > stellarcrisisclub@yahoogroups.com, Israel
                > > > > > > Chauca
                > > > > > > > <israelvarios@> wrote:
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Hi there!
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Any reason why a science might not
                > > > be able to
                > > > > > > explore a system
                > > > > > > with an
                > > > > > > > > open link? there are two
                > > > unexplored systems but
                > > > > > > the science only one
                > > > > > > > > can be explored. This is in a
                > > > Homeserve game.
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > > > Israel
                > > > > > > > >
                > > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > ------------------------------------
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas,
                > > > and blasting each
                > > > > > > other mercilessly into smouldering
                > > > cinders.Yahoo! Groups
                > > > > > > Links
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > > >
                > > > > >
                > > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > > > ------------------------------------
                > > >
                > > > A few nice people meeting, sharing ideas, and blasting each
                > > > other mercilessly into smouldering cinders.Yahoo! Groups
                > > > Links
                > > >
                > > >
                > > >
                > >
                >
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