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Re: [steiner] introduction

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  • Carl Jackson
    Hi Ashley and Christine, You remind me of all the reasons why I ve loved the Steiner people in my life. As a community of spiritual friends I ve always found
    Message 1 of 18 , Jun 16, 2002
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      Hi Ashley and Christine,
       
             You remind me of all the reasons why I've  loved the Steiner people in my life.  As a community of spiritual friends I've always found them frank , wholesome, open,  inspiring,  gentle yet passionate, and almost always uplifting to be around - both your posts left me with a smile and made me think - and even more amazingly got me to post instead of lurk!
       
             Your situation, Ashley, has *some* similarities to my own, except that, being male,  a few of the perspectives are a little different.    I was haunted by your description of  the "spark" going out of your relationship - about 18 months ago the same thing led to the break-up of me and my de-facto, Gail,  of five years.  There is a particular type of sadness when a relationship that was full of life and vitality quietly ebbs away to nothingness.
       
              I identify with some of both you and your husbands situation.  Perhaps my situation might add another angle of view on his.  Like him I was in a pressured job - I was a sales manager and had to do a lot of international travel.  I too would come home a sit in front of the TV.  I found the corporate world sufficiently stressful that I needed to mentally "anaesthetize" myself to recouperate enough to face the next day and the TV was just right for the job - it seemed less harmful than drinking.   We had talked about putting in a few very hard working years to get ourselves into a financially secure position   and I think I was mentally prepared to "tough it out" for that long - but over about 2 years of this we became distant and started to fight.  It seemed that one of the essential problems was that in a stressful job it is MUCH harder to find the time and energy for romance and passion - previously I'd put a lot more energy focussing on her and making her feel special and loved and making her laugh - now I had transferred that energy into our mutual goal of achieving financial security.    Perhaps the old saying "you marry the job too" applies both in your situation and mine.   I always found that when she expressed fear and concern about security issues, particularly about money,  I would react by putting in even longer hours at work to try and "do something" to fix the cause of the insecurity.  It is a perhaps part of the male protective instinct that when your mate feels insecure then all other matters become secondary until you restore that sense of security.  I wonder if any of that happens with you and your husband.  
       
              Looking back on the situation with hindsight I guess I needed either a job that was compatable with my wife, or a wife that was compatable with my job. 
       
             The issue of romance and passion is one I strive to understand more than I do - particularly from a spiritual point of view.  Steiner embraced both Christianity and Buddhism - and I was educated in a Waldorf school and later become a serious Buddhist for several years.  But it seems to me that there are quite different views on an issue like Passion between Christianity and Buddhism and I don't as yet know if and how Steiner resolves these.   Buddha taught that passion is a manifestation of craving and craving leads to suffering and blocks the path the Nirvana. He taught that we should be aware of passions arising within us without reacting to them so that the passions lose power and dissapate.  I remember attending a 10-day meditation course and at the end of each day people would ask the teacher questions.  One day a woman came up and asked what the problem was with passion and the teacher answered more or less as above, to which she replied "but I LIKE it!"  It really stuck in my mind that on some level passion matters  a bit more to women than to men - in that setting passion was look at as not really different to anger or envy - and you certainly wouldnt have seen any of the meditators get up and make a stand for envy or anger the way this woman did for passion.   On some level it seems like passion is largely an energy that flows from men to women - it leaves women feeling more energized but their men feeling less so.  From Christs owns "passion" we get an entirely different view - at golgotha passion seems to be an essential part of his spiritual transcendance. And the "mainstream" modern western view is that passion is a very positive thing.  The truth about passion is, I suspect, one of the deeper mysteries.
             
      Carl
       
             
       ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:18 AM
      Subject: Re: [steiner] introduction

      What a deliciously self-indulgent excercise, to consider your list of questions!  My IRL housewife friends *bristle* at the mention of my marital and personal problems.  I have attached my answers in a MS Word document.  Thanks again, Christine!  I look forward to knowing you better on this list.




    • Ashley Case
      Thanks, Carl. I do appreciate hearing the male perspective. I hope that you are back on your feet now, 18 months later. It made me sad to hear that you were
      Message 2 of 18 , Jun 17, 2002
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        >
        Thanks, Carl.  I do appreciate hearing the male perspective.  I hope that you are back on your feet now, 18 months later.  It made me sad to hear that you were working on a common goal, and this drove you apart.
         
        -------Original Message-------
         
        Date: Sunday, June 16, 2002 07:52:11 AM
        Subject: Re: [steiner] introduction
         
        Hi Ashley and Christine,
         
               You remind me of all the reasons why I've  loved the Steiner people in my life.  As a community of spiritual friends I've always found them frank , wholesome, open,  inspiring,  gentle yet passionate, and almost always uplifting to be around - both your posts left me with a smile and made me think - and even more amazingly got me to post instead of lurk!
         
               Your situation, Ashley, has *some* similarities to my own, except that, being male,  a few of the perspectives are a little different.    I was haunted by your description of  the "spark" going out of your relationship - about 18 months ago the same thing led to the break-up of me and my de-facto, Gail,  of five years.  There is a particular type of sadness when a relationship that was full of life and vitality quietly ebbs away to nothingness.
         
                I identify with some of both you and your husbands situation.  Perhaps my situation might add another angle of view on his.  Like him I was in a pressured job - I was a sales manager and had to do a lot of international travel.  I too would come home a sit in front of the TV.  I found the corporate world sufficiently stressful that I needed to mentally "anaesthetize" myself to recouperate enough to face the next day and the TV was just right for the job - it seemed less harmful than drinking.   We had talked about putting in a few very hard working years to get ourselves into a financially secure position   and I think I was mentally prepared to "tough it out" for that long - but over about 2 years of this we became distant and started to fight.  It seemed that one of the essential problems was that in a stressful job it is MUCH harder to find the time and energy for romance and passion - previously I'd put a lot more energy focussing on her and making her feel special and loved and making her laugh - now I had transferred that energy into our mutual goal of achieving financial security.    Perhaps the old saying "you marry the job too" applies both in your situation and mine.   I always found that when she expressed fear and concern about security issues, particularly about money,  I would react by putting in even longer hours at work to try and "do something" to fix the cause of the insecurity.  It is a perhaps part of the male protective instinct that when your mate feels insecure then all other matters become secondary until you restore that sense of security.  I wonder if any of that happens with you and your husband.  
         
                Looking back on the situation with hindsight I guess I needed either a job that was compatable with my wife, or a wife that was compatable with my job. 
         
               The issue of romance and passion is one I strive to understand more than I do - particularly from a spiritual point of view.  Steiner embraced both Christianity and Buddhism - and I was educated in a Waldorf school and later become a serious Buddhist for several years.  But it seems to me that there are quite different views on an issue like Passion between Christianity and Buddhism and I don't as yet know if and how Steiner resolves these.   Buddha taught that passion is a manifestation of craving and craving leads to suffering and blocks the path the Nirvana. He taught that we should be aware of passions arising within us without reacting to them so that the passions lose power and dissapate.  I remember attending a 10-day meditation course and at the end of each day people would ask the teacher questions.  One day a woman came up and asked what the problem was with passion and the teacher answered more or less as above, to which she replied "but I LIKE it!"  It really stuck in my mind that on some level passion matters  a bit more to women than to men - in that setting passion was look at as not really different to anger or envy - and you certainly wouldnt have seen any of the meditators get up and make a stand for envy or anger the way this woman did for passion.   On some level it seems like passion is largely an energy that flows from men to women - it leaves women feeling more energized but their men feeling less so.  From Christs owns "passion" we get an entirely different view - at golgotha passion seems to be an essential part of his spiritual transcendance. And the "mainstream" modern western view is that passion is a very positive thing.  The truth about passion is, I suspect, one of the deeper mysteries.
               
        Carl
         
               
         ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 9:18 AM
        Subject: Re: [steiner] introduction

        What a deliciously self-indulgent excercise, to consider your list of questions!  My IRL housewife friends *bristle* at the mention of my marital and personal problems.  I have attached my answers in a MS Word document.  Thanks again, Christine!  I look forward to knowing you better on this list.





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      • golden3000997@cs.com
        Hi Carl, Oh boy... what am I going to DO with you kids!!! : ) You can have money, passion, love, peace and all at once. In our culture, we are usually raised
        Message 3 of 18 , Jun 17, 2002
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          Hi Carl,

          Oh boy... what am I going to DO with you kids!!! : )

          You can have money, passion, love, peace and all at once. In our culture, we
          are usually raised to believe (I certainly was) that spirituality and
          sexuality are opposites. Well, sexual activity is an act of will. Making
          money is an act of will. Meditation is an act of will. Loving God is an act
          of will (I'll define this shortly). The will of the human being is his or her
          most unconcious and at the same time, most powerful soul force. Ever been up
          all night with indigestion? That's what happens when their is a disturbance
          in the unconcious will forces governing our metabolism. Not fun. But
          definitely more concious. Well, becoming concious of other will forces in our
          lives can be almost as painful. However, respecting them and learning to
          "feed" them properly can result in increased vitality and soul health.

          What is the real problem here? Some kind of spark missing? Some magical
          chemical that isn't being produced? Not enough of ......? Energy? Time? Love?
          Money?

          Nope.

          It is very, very simple - the lack of balance and rhythm in life. Somewhere
          (I can't remember where off hand, would have to look it up) Steiner said,
          "Rhythm replaces Strength."

          Let's say you want to play the piano. You could dream about it for years,
          listen to great recordings, read the biographies of great musicians and
          composers, get on lots of musical mailing lists, etc.. But if you really
          desire to participate, there would be some acts of will to accomplish -
          getting a piano (or keyboard), finding a teacher and going to lessons and
          ....are you ready for this?? Practicing!!!! Where all this gets you is
          dependent on a combination of natural ability and determined work. Some
          people, even after all this effort will let the whole thing dwindle away in a
          few months. Some people will find that they really were "born with" a talent
          that they never had put to the test before and they will go on to using it in
          unexpected ways in their life. Other people will learn enough to amuse
          themselves or their family and friends and will feel content with this. Etc.,
          etc and soforth..... : )

          Now consider this. Let's say you make the effort, get a piano, take lessons
          and are perfectly willing to practice regardless of how good or not so good
          you may become. But you do want to put in enough effort to make the whole
          thing worthwhile and get you at least to a competent level. Which would be
          better? Practicing all day, for 8 hours, every Saturday only? Or practicing
          every night of the week for half an hour? Which do you think would make for
          better progress?

          Yup, every day for half an hour. The rhythm of the daily practice allows the
          mind and the skill to develop at a healthy pace, each day's experience
          building on the one before.

          So, this lengthy example can apply to everything that a person might want to
          create or have happen in his or her life. A marriage? Enthusiasm - you read
          about it, see it in film & TV, talk about it, maybe see some bad examples and
          say " I can do better" maybe see some good examples and say " Gee that looks
          wonderful, I want that, too." The you meet THE ONE (after meeting lots of
          other "ones") OK, this one's a keeper - it's gonna be great (or else you got
          suckered into it, in which case we're not talking about will anymore). It's
          my SOULMATE!! My LIFE PARTNER!! My better half... my one and only... yada,
          yada, yada... you get the picture. You make the effort. You clean up nice.
          You figure out what he or she likes and get it/ do it/ watch it/ play
          it....... You do the bouncy-bouncy and oh do it feel good! (At least some of
          the time, or else - you got suckered - see above) OK, we're going for it, the
          rings, the dress, the gifts, the guests, et al. Now we done it - WOW. If
          only we were all Romeo and Juliet and we died right after our honeymoon, we
          would all have perfect marriages. Unfortunately......

          Hey, the energy lasts for a good while. The first year is great. Sure, a few
          battles and some real adjustments, but things still feel basically good.
          Practice? No problem - bring it on. Flowers, wine, candles, massage. Hey this
          marriage thing is not bad! Then fewer flowers, less wine, and "are you
          kidding, rub your feet? Do you know what kind of day I had???" Kids come.
          Jobs come and go. Friends and families come and go - usually the ones you
          want to come, go and the ones you want to go, come. But we got plans, we got
          dreams, we got goals. So we hitch our wills up by the bootstraps and plunge
          on. Some vacations, some interesting weekends, hey, we still know how to rock
          n roll.... : )

          Then eventually, we come to realize that things have really dwindled away.
          This marriage thing is getting pretty dusty over there in the corner. I
          really don't have the energy to practice tonight (been saying that for months
          now). Now and then we sit down and have a good long bang at it, but those
          Saturdays get fewer and fewer. Might as well sell the damn thing and get a
          home entertainment center instead. You do. Then one night, as you're sitting
          there watching (ALONE) you get this brilliant idea - "Hey, I'm gonna take up
          the guitar!!!"

          Is any thing here making sense?

          As for Steiner, Buddhism and Christianity - I really don't think he
          "embraced" them. I think he investigated them. And the kind of shallow
          wandering around in the puddles of spiritual knowledge that most people do
          today will never produce anything that will "TELL ME WHAT I SHOULD DO."
          Because it isn't about SHOULDS in the first place. Another "Herr Doktor"
          quote - from an old anthropop that I once knew is that a young woman came to
          Steiner and told him all about her problems or life situation. She concluded
          by asking "So, what should I do?" The only answer she got was, "My dear, the
          question is what WILL you do?"

          Read Herman Hesse's Siddharta. Understand that Gautama Buddha went to all
          phases of experience before he was ready for his bliss. He was an extreme
          ascetic (?) and an extreme materialist. The pendulum swings wildly in our
          lives from one to the other, little by little slowing down to a more moderate
          pace. For some, it just stops and for all intense and purposes their life is
          over. They have stopped trying and settle into a state of "quiet desperation"
          and wait to die. Others do wild things to keep the pendulum in motion,
          gambling, sex, drugs, one cult after another. Keep it moving, keep it moving.
          But there is another possibility. Do you know what a lemniskate is? a figure
          eight. In movement. Remember your Eurythmy, Carl? What if you were to take
          that pendulum and set it to swing in a lemniskate pattern. Sure, it would
          need a push now and then, but the rhythm would be a healthy one. There are
          energizing principles associated with it. They use it while creating
          homeopathic remedies. In and out, back and forth, breathing, moving,
          relating, healing, creating. Rhythmic movement, rhythmic breathing, rhythmic
          development. All nature lives by it and it governs them as law. As earthly
          creatures we are within its sway, but as spiritual human beings, we are not
          bound by it. We can choose (even unconciously) to ignore it, to defy it, to
          do our "own thing" in our own way. But it will have it's revenge, by its very
          absence in our lives. We will die, perhaps of illnesses created by our
          imbalances, knowing that we have not created what we came to create, we have
          not learned what we came to learn, we have not loved what we came to love.

          As for Christianity and sex? I think that will have to be for another time.
          Only by understanding the real nature of the Trinity can one understand the
          spiritual role of the male/ female energies, I believe.

          One more detail - it is NEVER - "That Person" - it is never "...something
          wrong with" (either you or them). The same cycle will repeat and repeat with
          each new person. You can go from Tin Pan Alley to Carnegie Hall, but you
          won't get any better music from the concert grand than you did from the old
          upright in your living room. It is your art alone that will be heard.

          Love,
          Christine
        • L APPLEBY
          Hello! I have just joined the Steiner group and would like to tell you a bit about myself. I am interested in Buddhism, Christianity and theosophy.. I am
          Message 4 of 18 , Aug 27, 2009
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            Hello!

            I have just joined the Steiner group and would like to tell you a bit about myself.

            I am interested in Buddhism, Christianity and theosophy.. I am particularly keen on the writing of Alice Bailey. My spiritual experiences are of connection to the elements, healing worldwide and synchronicity. I experience a spirit which joins me to all mankind and which I can heal to bring the world to peace and harmony.  I would really like to understand this more.My background is more in the theories of Freud, Jung and Klein. Do you think Steiner has a place for such phenomena and what would his analysis be?

            Yours,
            Linda Appleby

            www.lindaappleby.com/connections    for 'Interconnection' CD
            lindaappleby128atbt.blog.co.uk

          • Durward Starman
            *******Welcome to the group, Linda. Well, if you have a background in Freud, you know that his orthodox scientific point of view rejected all spiritual
            Message 5 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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              *******Welcome to the group, Linda. Well, if you have a background in Freud, you know that his orthodox scientific point of view rejected all spiritual experiences as mere illusons, while his pupil Jung tried to go beyond those shackles on thinking. Steiner went much further than Jung--- so Jung is well-known in the world because he didn't go too far and stayed fairly acceptable to academia, where Steiner went too far for most 20th century academics to accept. But if one wants to understand spiritual things like Buddhism and Christianity, Jungian thought can only take you so far. I think working with what Steiner gave out can lead to much more understanding of ancient religions, as well as the spiritual path for today. Likewise, of all the people who worked out of theosophy, I'd say Steiner's contributions have been the most fruitful (the schools, farms, arts, anthroposophic medicine, etc.)
               
                Our list is seldom used. Feel free to start any discussion you like and perhaps people may join in---except, please, no discussion of politics, which has a negative effect on conversation on the internet, you may have seen!
               
                 I mainly work with Astrosophy, the renewal of astrology, which is a multidimensional psychology as well as leading over into the physical dimension as well. For example, in case you haven't read about it yet, Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects--- so, for instance, what in past centuries were called "fiery" people or the "Choleric temperament" have a lot of Warmth Ether, and one characteristic of it is to contract things in space--- so cholerics tend to be small in stature. Hence the shortness of powerful leaders like Napoleon, Augustus, Hitler, etc.
               
              Starman

              www.DrStarman.com


               

              To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
              From: l.appleby128@...
              Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 19:45:25 +0000
              Subject: [steiner] introduction

               
              Hello!

              I have just joined the Steiner group and would like to tell you a bit about myself.

              I am interested in Buddhism, Christianity and theosophy.. I am particularly keen on the writing of Alice Bailey. My spiritual experiences are of connection to the elements, healing worldwide and synchronicity. I experience a spirit which joins me to all mankind and which I can heal to bring the world to peace and harmony.  I would really like to understand this more.My background is more in the theories of Freud, Jung and Klein. Do you think Steiner has a place for such phenomena and what would his analysis be?

              Yours,
              Linda Appleby

              www.lindaappleby. com/connections    for 'Interconnection' CD
              lindaappleby128atbt .blog.co. uk




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            • robertsmason_99
              ... Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Alice Bailey was working under very dubious influences, to put it mildly. There is a direct line from her to
              Message 6 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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                --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, L APPLEBY <l.appleby128@...> wrote:
                > . . . I am particularly keen on the writing of Alice Bailey. . . .

                Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but Alice
                Bailey was working under very dubious influences,
                to put it mildly. There is a direct line from
                her to Benjamin Creme's bogus "Maitreya". To
                refer to my own words:
                <http://www.altanthroinfo.9f.com/ahriman.htm#theemergenceofmaitreya>

                Another word: *discernment*.

                Robert Mason
              • stephenm142
                Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth s Etheric Formative Forces Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man s evolution? I can post excerpts
                Message 7 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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                  Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth's "Etheric Formative Forces' Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man's evolution? I can post excerpts for discussion. I have scanned it and made a readable PDF eBook. Do you have respect for Wachsmuth's work along these lines? Do you know if he ever worked with the other Astrosophical great Willi Sucher?

                  - Stephen

                  ==========================
                  [Starman said:]
                  Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects---
                • Durward Starman
                  *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print
                  Message 8 of 18 , Aug 28, 2009
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                    *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print ever since, apparently because of the split in the Society where Wachsmuth and Ita Wegman and the others went to war with each other. It's a very important book which I believe is once again out of print. I have his "Reincarnation As A Phenomenon of Metamorphosis" also. You could post the book to our Files section if you wish.
                     
                       Somehow, Wachsmuth and Albert Steffen wound up in one faction 10 years after Steiner's death and Ita Wegman and Dr. Elizabeth Vreede wound up on the other. The two women were kicked out of the Society even though they continued to live right down the street from the Goetheanum and carry on their work. (Both were Dutch, and the Anthroposophical Society of Holland separated itself in protest over their treatment. Dr. Vreede was the head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section, and had been trained directly by Steiner at reading horoscopes, as can be seen by their remarks to each other in the Curative Education lectures. After she was expelled, that work suffered. Her 2 assistants were Joachim Schultze, author of "Movements and Rythms of the Stars", and Willi Sucher. Neither were fired, but not long afterwards Sucher left for California, convinced from these experiences that those at the Goetheanum would not likely start a new astrology, so he worked on it and published his books himself.
                     
                       The art and science of Astrosophy has suffered from those events of 1935, and we need to pick up and go forward now.
                     
                    -starman

                    www.DrStarman.com


                     

                    To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                    From: celestial_vision@...
                    Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2009 19:26:14 +0000
                    Subject: [steiner] Re: introduction/welcome

                     
                    Are you familiar with Guenther Wachsmuth's "Etheric Formative Forces' Book and the discussion of the 4 Ethers in Earth and Man's evolution? I can post excerpts for discussion. I have scanned it and made a readable PDF eBook. Do you have respect for Wachsmuth's work along these lines? Do you know if he ever worked with the other Astrosophical great Willi Sucher?

                    - Stephen

                    ============ ========= =====
                    [Starman said:]
                    Steiner also revived the old idea of the 4 Elements as Jung did, but where Jung named them the "Intuitive", "Sensation" etc. 4 personality types, Steiner described 4 types of formative forces in nature which he called the 4 Ethers, and that each of these 4 temperaments or personalty types had a preponderance of one or another "ether": Warmth Ether, Light Ether, Sound Ether (also called Chemical or Number Ether---which is the one Freud's other pupil Reich discovered and called "orgone energy") and Life Ether. Along with inclining people to psychologically be a certain way, these also have physical effects---




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                  • stephenm142
                    Very interesting post Starman. If it was reprinted in 1986 then I have no evidence of that, and I have done extensive research, do you have a publisher or any
                    Message 9 of 18 , Aug 31, 2009
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                      Very interesting post Starman.
                      If it was reprinted in 1986 then I have no evidence of that, and I have done extensive research, do you have a publisher or any specific information so that I might find it? As you know any reprint must be in color because of all the original color diagrams that make no sense in black and white. I am trying to get the publisher at Temple Lodge to reprint it now. I believe it is important, and I am trying to study it.
                      I just read the memorandum which details the March 27/28 GA meeting where Vreede, Wegman, all of the Dutch and much of the English society let by Kauffman (Adams) were booted. Zeylmans was booted as well and Walter Stein's mischievousness was all over the matter. It's a very sad commentary and a great wonder that the society survived in any shape or form whatsoever(I know there are those who say it didn't).
                      I now have the original typescript publications Man and the Stars, etc by Sucher that I will also scan and post if anyone is interested. As far as posting the Wachsmuth Formative forces book, it came out very large and I am in the process of trying to use Adobe to trim the size of the pdf - is there a file size limit?
                      - Stephen


                      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, Durward Starman <DrStarman@...> wrote:
                      >
                      >
                      > *******Yes, in fact I sponsored a reprint of his book on the 50th anniversary of its publication in English (1936), when I found out it had been out of print ever since, apparently because of the split in the Society where Wachsmuth and Ita Wegman and the others went to war with each other. It's a very important book which I believe is once again out of print. I have his "Reincarnation As A Phenomenon of Metamorphosis" also. You could post the book to our Files section if you wish.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Somehow, Wachsmuth and Albert Steffen wound up in one faction 10 years after Steiner's death and Ita Wegman and Dr. Elizabeth Vreede wound up on the other. The two women were kicked out of the Society even though they continued to live right down the street from the Goetheanum and carry on their work. (Both were Dutch, and the Anthroposophical Society of Holland separated itself in protest over their treatment. Dr. Vreede was the head of the Mathematical-Astronomical Section, and had been trained directly by Steiner at reading horoscopes, as can be seen by their remarks to each other in the Curative Education lectures. After she was expelled, that work suffered. Her 2 assistants were Joachim Schultze, author of "Movements and Rythms of the Stars", and Willi Sucher. Neither were fired, but not long afterwards Sucher left for California, convinced from these experiences that those at the Goetheanum would not likely start a new astrology, so he worked on it and published his books himself.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The art and science of Astrosophy has suffered from those events of 1935, and we need to pick up and go forward now.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > -starman
                      >
                      > www.DrStarman.com
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