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Re: [steiner] Incarnating Evil in the World

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  • DRStarman2001@aol.com
    ... terrorist groups and have resulted in de facto terrorism against hundreds of thousands of innocent lives. The CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and other
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 24, 2001
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      >>>....US policies have created
      terrorist groups and have resulted in de facto
      terrorism against hundreds of thousands of innocent
      lives. The CIA trained Osama Bin Laden and other
      terrorists groups to serve its interests in Afghan war
      versus the USSR. In the process, the CIA resurrected
      jihad or “holy war”, a concept that was last used in
      the 10th century... <<

      *******The writer is in a world of fantasy. First, name one terrorist group the US has created, please. This can be done only by Orwellian distortion of the meaning of the word 'terrorist' to apply to soldiers fighting a war against other uniformed soldiers, it seems to me. Second, the 'jihad' or Holy War was invoked against Israel and its Western supporters in the 1967 and 1973, by Iran against the US in the 1970s and by Iraq against the West in the 1990s. 'Not used since the tenth century', indeed.

      And for the last time, Osama bin Laden was a wealthy Saudi converted to fundamentalist Islam who went ON HIS OWN to Afghanistan to join a Holy War of Islam against 'godless communism'. As a multimillionaire, he needed and received no 'financing' from us. He was never controlled or even associated with the CIA, by his own words. He and the US BOTH financed the freedom fighters in Afghanistan---we so they could be free, he and his buddies to turn Afghanistan into the Dark Ages, and his side took over after defeating the Soviets by killing the opposition leaders of the other mujahedeen who were not backward like the Taliban, whom EVEN THE IRANIAN MUSLIM LEADERS look down on as 'medieval'.

      Feminists have complained for years about the lawyer's strategy of 'blaming the victims'. I for one would like to hear them and everyone else respond to this disgusting strategy being used by anti-freedom ideologists to denigrate the memory of the innocents killed by fanatics.

      Start justifying murder and terrorism, and you have left all 'spiritual' thought behind, whether you call yourself an 'anthroposophist' or whatever.

      This was a crime, and the perpetrators will be hunted down and prevented from ever doing it or anything like it again.

      And as for this:
      >>>...Ahriman prepares his “incarnation” by, among others, fostering illusion, division, half-truths, and materialism in society...<<<

      *******That is sure true--- but the writer is saying that we in the free world are the ones creating illusions and half-truths. From my perspective, it seems to me the most dangerous falsehoods were given out by the Ahrimanic Lenin and his ilk... and the materialistic distortion of the spirit called present-day 'fundamentalist Islam' (where 'heaven' has 72 prostitute women waiting for brave warriors, and all the other literally-interpreted symbolic scripture) is just a continuation of the same, a corrupt half-truth being used for the same purposes by the same type of hate-filled souls who want to squelch all freedom.

      Starman
    • nicholas dee
      What s Going On? By Michael Albert The U.S. response to September 11 seeks to benefit elites in the U.S., and, to a lesser degree, around the world. There are
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 4, 2001
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        What's Going On?
        By Michael Albert

        The U.S. response to September 11 seeks to benefit
        elites in the U.S., and, to a lesser degree, around
        the world. There are various goals.

        --> Destroy the bin Laden network
        --> Topple the Taliban
        --> Build a coalition fighting selected terrorists
        internationally in exchange for trade and foreign aid
        benefits and the right of coalition partners to pursue
        their own dissidents locally
        --> Channel fear and anger to cut education, social
        services, health care, and other socially desirable
        expenditures
        --> Expand military spending
        --> Enlarge police and surveillance budgets
        --> Curb civil rights
        --> Deny and even aggravate just grievances around the
        world when doing so serves corporate interests even if
        it also fuels the despair that breeds terrorism
        --> Ignore international legality to curb notions that
        the U.S. ought to obey international law
        --> Avoid defining terrorism as any attack on
        civilians for political ends, to avoid indicting the
        U.S. and its allies.

        But if you are Bush, how do you juggle so many goals
        simultaneously?
        How do you neutralize bin Laden, topple the Taliban,
        and strengthen regimes supportive of U.S. interests,
        yet avoid destabilizing others we want to maintain?
        How do you create a domestic dynamic that expands
        police and military powers and that redistributes
        wealth upward by gutting social programs and enhancing
        regressive taxes, yet retain popular support? And
        what about dissent...how does that impact your
        choices?

        The good news is that I don't think it can all be
        done, supposing dissidents react with sufficient vigor
        and clarity. The campaign to elaborate an
        anti-terrorism war into national policy is
        ill-conceived.
        That last little proviso -- that they must avoid
        clearly defining terrorism -- is the Achilles heal of
        the entire undertaking. With sufficient resistance,
        the campaign will succumb to its own obvious
        hypocrisy. U.S. policy makers are terrorists too.
        There are numerous indicators that activists will have
        the room to mount the needed resistance and help
        communicate the towering hypocrisy. In the past
        thirty years I have rarely addressed an audience too
        big to fit in a large auditorium - but in the last two
        days I was on a national radio call-in with two
        million listeners for two hours, and I was on NPR,
        again nationally, for an hour. Demonstrations and
        gatherings are occurring locally all over the country,
        with education and solidarity resulting. Many feel
        this is the worst of times for leftists. But while
        it is certainly a time of great grief and fear, and a
        time of immense danger, and while it is certainly a
        time of widespread confusion and nationalism,
        nonetheless, regarding communicating with previously
        apolitical people, there are many more openings than
        closings of opportunity occurring, both on the local
        and on the national scale.

        So, again, if you were Bush, what would be your
        preferred agenda, if you could have your way? Here is
        my best guess...at the moment, with admittedly little
        information available.

        First, you would elicit fear and nationalism. Second,
        you would convince populaces worldwide that there is a
        long-term war we must fight (the same war that was at
        the core of Reagan's foreign policy twenty years ago),
        which requires a massive allotment of resources and
        energy, plus lock-step patriotism. Third, after
        saber-rattling sufficiently to arouse fear and
        passion, you would ratchet down the rhetoric in accord
        with the
        necessity to avoid actual military losses or risking
        destabilizing friendly regimes, and to avoid appearing
        to want to punish civilians. Fourth, to have a good
        shot at getting rid of the Taliban, you would close
        the borders of Afghanistan, starve the country, and
        hope that Taliban members start to defect and that the
        country rises up in anguish and despair. Fifth, to
        fill the ensuing power vacuum, you would support
        Afghanistan's Northern alliance. Most important,
        sixth, to diminish the groundswell of anti-war
        opposition to your combating terror with even
        greater terror, you would send food to Afghanistan's
        borders, and perhaps even drop food from planes
        inland. But, if you could have your way, not too much
        food, of course. Indeed, if you remained free to do
        so, you would provide only a pittance compared to the
        need generated by closing the borders in the first
        place and by removing larger sources of aid. Your goal
        would be to induce starvation sufficient to topple the
        Taliban. It would not deter you that such behavior is
        precisely the definition of terrorism -- attacking
        civilians for political aims - because seventh, you
        would blame the ensuing starvation, caused by your
        closing the borders, on the Taliban itself. Finally,
        you would claim, eighth, that we are humanely seeking
        to avoid innocent suffering, even as the starved
        bodies pile up.

        Assuming Bush and his advisors can overcome some
        internal opposition from their right and reign in the
        momentum to shoot someone that all the troop and
        missile movements have unleashed, I think they will
        pursue more or less the above agenda. This is not the
        worst set of policies the U.S. government could adopt
        -- that would be nukes and the like -- but it would be
        horrendous in its cynical exploitation of pain and
        suffering, and in its expansion of each, and it must
        therefore be opposed with as much energy as people of
        good will can muster. If we do our job well enough and
        fast enough here in the U.S., and if others throughout
        the world do so too, then the pressure on Bush may be
        great enough that the borders will reopen, the food
        shipments will become more than opportunistic and
        marginal, and massive new tragedy will be largely
        averted. If we are slower, more people will suffer.
        The same holds for the more long-term aims of
        revamping laws, budgets, and alliances on behalf of
        militarism, profit-seeking, and right-wing repression.
        The degree these are limited or reversed will reflect
        the extent of our organizing and opposition.

        On September 11, I wrote:

        "In coming weeks we may suffer a kind of celebration
        in America, a celebration of security and of power, a
        celebration of surreptitious information retrieval, a
        celebration of arms growth, and perhaps of
        assassination, all described as virtuous goals rather
        than uncivil abominations, all touted as if the terror
        victims will be honored rather than defiled by our
        preparing to entomb still more innocent people
        around the world. Normal good-hearted Americans will
        weep for the suffering that today's events exacted and
        hope to create a world in which such hate and
        callousness disappears. But I fear that America's
        leaders will cynically bulk up their ammo belts while
        seeking to make ubiquitous their listening
        devices-trying to relegate public freedoms to an
        incinerator. In this environment, people of good will
        must explain
        as often as necessary that terrorism is horrific and
        insane, but so to is capitalist business as usual. And
        we must not step back from dissent, but must instead
        work harder to oppose all kinds of injustice with
        massive public demonstrations and civil disobedience."

        Events are unfolding as indicated, and my view is
        essentially unchanged.

        For the government, the answer to terrorism shouldn't
        be reciprocal terrorism - whether by bombing or by
        starving civilians. The answer to fundamentalism
        shouldn't be to mount a military crusade abroad and to
        curb civil liberties at home. The answer to
        hypocritical inhumanity shouldn't be to
        opportunistically exploit fear. The government should
        not use the excuse of a battered economy to enrich the
        rich and empower the powerful while gutting social
        programs to hurt the poor and weak.

        And for the left, the answer to entreaties that we
        should forgo dissent shouldn't be passive obedience,
        but, active disobedience. We should mount our peace
        movement against the terror war, organize our
        humanitarian opposition to starvation tactics, renew
        our resistance to the embargo of Iraq, intensify our
        rejection of Israeli and U.S. rejectionism regarding
        Palestinian rights, and finally enlarge our
        anti-globalization movement to not only demand just
        and equitable institutional successors to the IMF,
        World Bank and WTO, but also improved adherence to
        international law and binding General Assembly
        adjudication of disputes among nations.

        Some will call us un-American. Some will call us
        callous. Some will cry treason. Some will threaten us.
        So?

        At the same time as many opponents of change are very
        angry and vocal, millions upon millions of far less
        noisy Americans are trying to understand recent events
        and the broader context in which they have occurred
        and are approaching the matter with considerable
        openness.

        This is not a time to hunker down in subdued silence.
        It is a time to go out and organize. To talk, talk,
        and talk.to demonstrate, to activate, to use the
        knowledge and access that we have.

        Forget about hating Bush and Powell and the rest. Yes,
        these people give the orders. They hand out the bombs.
        They withhold the food. But institutions create the
        pressures that mold them. Those institutions and
        associated policies must be our focus.

        But what to do?

        Handing out leaflets, arguing against war with a
        co-worker, urging a relative to think twice about our
        own role in international terrorism, going to a
        demonstration, sitting in, doing civil disobedience,
        or even building movements to do all these things
        collectively, may all seem momentarily insignificant
        in light of the calamity that could befall
        Afghanistan and the world in coming weeks. But the
        fact is, these are the acts that can accumulate into a
        firestorm of informed protest that curtails Afghani
        starvation, that derails the war on terrorism, and
        that even raises the cost of profiteering so high that
        the institutions breeding such behavior start to
        buckle.

        War, whether it is waged with kamikaze planes, fleets
        of missiles and bombers, or starvation food policies,
        is a horrendous crime against humanity. It invariably
        rends apart life and justice and civility. It benefits
        no one other than the Masters of War. War in all its
        forms is an orchestrated atrocity that mandates our
        militant, unswerving opposition. But we should also
        remember that even after we curb Bush's rush to
        violence and forestall his starvation scenarios, the
        on-going day-to day grievances and injustices of our
        world will still need attention. Ultimately, our
        opposition must transcend current events.

        Alienation, poverty, disease, starvation, death
        squads, and terror-these and other atrocities stem
        from basic institutions. The institutions must become
        our lasting target.



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      • DRStarman2001@aol.com
        More from the Blame America First school of organized whining. ... and, to a lesser degree, around the world. There are various goals... (To) Channel fear
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 5, 2001
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          More from the "Blame America First" school of organized whining.

          nicholasd9@... writes:
          >>>The U.S. response to September 11 seeks to benefit elites in the U.S.,
          and, to a lesser degree, around the world. There are various goals... (To)
          Channel fear and anger to cut education, social services, health care, and
          other socially desirable
          expenditures....

          *******Um... first off, this has NOTHING whatever to do with anthroposophy;
          and second, an elementary look at spiritual science would reveal that one of
          its pillars is that the governement ahd NO PLACE "funding" and controlling
          education. So this poster clearly knows nothing of Steiner, and is just using
          the list for this venomous bile.


          --> Deny and even aggravate just grievances around the
          world when doing so serves corporate interests even if
          it also fuels the despair that breeds terrorism....

          *******So in other words if you keep these people from killing all Jews, you
          deserve to have innocent people bombed. I see.

          >>> Avoid defining terrorism as any attack on
          civilians for political ends, to avoid indicting the
          U.S. and its allies.

          *******Like to tell us what civilians the big bad ol' US has been attacking
          lately?


          >>>That last little proviso -- that they must avoid
          clearly defining terrorism -- is the Achilles heal of
          the entire undertaking...U.S. policy makers are terrorists too.

          *******You don't know how to spell the word "heel"---perhaps the words
          "hyperbole" and "demagoguery" are unknown to you as well. So our elected
          officials are "terrorists", hmm? Are all cops "pigs" too? All soldiers
          "baby-killers"?


          >>>Many feel this is the worst of times for leftists. <<

          *********You seem to still manage to spew your poisionous gibberish fine.

          >>>>...[They're trying to] convince populaces worldwide that there is a
          long-term war we must fight (the same war that was at the core of Reagan's
          foreign policy twenty years ago), which requires a massive allotment of
          resources and energy, plus lock-step patriotism....

          *******So it's all a right-wing conspiracy, eh. Would you care to explain why
          Tony Blair is leading it then?
          There IS a long-term war, between the forces of freedom and progress and
          those of backwardness. Since you're on the side of the latter (Marxism),
          you'll never see it.


          >>>On September 11, I wrote:
          "In coming weeks we may suffer a kind of celebration
          in America, a celebration of security and of power, a
          celebration of surreptitious information retrieval, a
          celebration of arms growth, and perhaps of
          assassination, all described as virtuous goals rather
          than uncivil abominations, all touted as if the terror
          victims will be honored rather than defiled by our
          preparing to entomb still more innocent people
          around the world....

          *******'Innocent' people like Arab Muslim extremists that assassinate all
          Jews and Americans on orders from Bin Laden, incinerate office workers, etc.?

          This gets my vote as the sickest post by a hate-filled leftist I've seen
          in the past month. I hope this guy crawls back under whatever rock he crawled
          out from under.


          >>>Alienation, poverty, disease, starvation, death
          squads, and terror-these and other atrocities stem
          from basic institutions. The institutions must become
          our lasting target. >>

          *******So all our institutions are evil and therefore those folks deserve
          what they got? I vote we deport this guy to Afghanistan.

          Starman
        • nicholas dee
          Our Father, hallowed be Thy name, Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread and forgive us our
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 8, 2001
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            Our Father, hallowed be Thy name, Thy Kingdom come,
            Thy Will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us
            this day our daily bread and forgive us our
            transgressions as You forgive those who are
            transgressing against us. And lead us not into
            temptation but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the
            Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, forever.

            Absolute Infinite Beingness, God. Everlasting Life,
            Love and Mercy. Manifesting Yourself in Yourself as
            the Total Wisdom and Almightiness, enlighten our minds
            to understand that You are the Truth, clean our hearts
            to reflect Your Love towards You and towards all other
            human beings. Amen.



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