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  • Lorraine Jarvi
    Hello to both of you - I m very interested in your perspective on threefold issues, Dr. Starman. I am also a former member of the Society who has become
    Message 1 of 2 , Apr 30, 2000
      Hello to both of you -

      I'm very interested in your perspective on threefold issues, Dr.
      Starman. I am also a former member of the Society who has become
      discouraged. I need to write a formal letter of resignation, but have
      been putting it off. I would like to do so, but haven't been able to
      figure out what to say. The last Society function I was involved in
      was the annual convention in Ann Arbor two years ago. My
      husband and I thought we might be "recharged" from the experience and
      also find our way back into active participation with an
      anthro. group. My experience was to feel even more estranged and
      disconnected. Maybe it's me that's changed. I don't really
      understand it completely, but I do know that anthroposophy means as
      much or more to me than it ever has. Why, then, do I find it so
      hard to form satisfying associations with other anthroposophists?
      It's a mystery, and one I am a little concerned about, because I
      had two very difficult experiences over an 8-year period with two
      very socially unhealthy Waldorf schools, and I think my
      perspective is colored by an emotional unwillingness to trust the
      integrity of anthroposophical groups. The first experience was
      one in which a group of anthropop parents started the school. They
      and the teachers were on the "inside" and the parents "didn't
      know who they were serving". It was war, complete with bunker
      mentality among the "ins" and parents pulling kids out en masse
      because they didn't feel respected or acknowledged. We left that
      collapsing school (it subsequently reformed under another name in
      a nearby town) and went to another, where there was a very powerful
      and charismatic lead teacher who felt compelled to control
      everything and was willing to do anything (up to and including
      accusing the Eurythmy teacher of child molestation) to maintain his
      power. At the end of this 8 years of financial and emotional stress
      (my kids had a great time!), I was too burnt out to try again. My
      instinct, when the opportunity arises to become involved with other
      anthropops is to run, not walk, the other way! On the other
      hand, I feel that anthroposophical involvements are essential for my
      own growth. I have come to the conviction that progressive
      spiritual beings work with groups, and that social involvements are
      essential if one is to participate in laying the groundwork for
      the 6th epoch. Maybe it's just too soon for that, but I have a
      continuing compulsion to find a group of people with which to begin
      to
      grow in this way (hence my interest in threefold ideas). What,
      exactly, does this mean? What, exactly, do I want to find? What,
      exactly, do I expect myself and others to be able to do? I don't know!

      I have also been very involved with astrology. I've had a book on
      astrosophy for about 5 years and have yet to look at it. Astrology
      was my passion before I got married and had kids. I would immerse
      myself in it for days on end. That was no longer possible with
      crying infants, and I gave up active involvement out of frustration.
      It was just too painful to be "dragged out" every 20 minutes.
      Now that my kids are teenagers, I have begun reading some again
      (mainly Liz Greene). It's like a foreign language. If you don't use
      it, you lose it. Where once I could look at a chart and it would
      speak to me, now it's just a bunch of isolated elements and I have to
      work (very hard!) to form it into a picture. My main use of astrology
      over the past 15 years has been to consult astrodice when I
      have a problem. I find them especially useful when trying to find a
      good reliable service such as a car mechanic or something. They
      never steer me wrong, as long as I can acquire the right degree of
      inner calm and centeredness when using them. If I have an agenda
      I won't acknowledge, they reflect that, which is also useful. Tarot
      is also an interest of mine, though I'm more at the "cookbook"
      level with that.

      Another area of common experience, Dr. Starman, is Edgar Cayce. I was
      part of a study group for about 5 years in my mid-twenties.
      I still use the mantra, "Not my will, oh Lord, but thine be done in
      and through me. Let me ever be a channel of blessings, today,
      now, to all that I contact in every way. Let my coming in and my
      going out be in accord with that thou wouldst have me do. And as the
      call comes, here am I. Send me. Use me." I found a way into wonderful
      meditations using this along with the Lord's Prayer and the
      23rd psalm. Unfortunately, I no longer have those wonderful
      meditations even though I still use the verses. I've concluded that I
      have to find my meditation in my work and my daily life now.

      Well, I've certainly rambled enough. Sena, what has brought you to an
      interest in Anthroposophy? What would you like to study?
      What spiritual "paths" have you travelled so far? Have you had
      children or friends with children in Waldorf? I'm sorry so much of
      my message ended up being addressed to Dr. Starman, but I found it
      interesting that our experiences seem to have paralleled in so
      many ways.

      Enjoy your day, both of you -
      Lorraine
    • Sena Fernando
      ... have ... to ... and ... know! ... to ... astrology ... was ... the ... wonderful ... I ... an ... Hello Lorraine and Dr.Starman, Thanks for your
      Message 2 of 2 , Apr 30, 2000
        --- In steiner@egroups.com, "Lorraine Jarvi" <ljarvi@p...> wrote:
        > Hello to both of you -
        >
        > I'm very interested in your perspective on threefold issues, Dr.
        > Starman. I am also a former member of the Society who has become
        > discouraged. I need to write a formal letter of resignation, but
        have
        > been putting it off. I would like to do so, but haven't been able
        to
        > figure out what to say. The last Society function I was involved in
        > was the annual convention in Ann Arbor two years ago. My
        > husband and I thought we might be "recharged" from the experience
        and
        > also find our way back into active participation with an
        > anthro. group. My experience was to feel even more estranged and
        > disconnected. Maybe it's me that's changed. I don't really
        > understand it completely, but I do know that anthroposophy means as
        > much or more to me than it ever has. Why, then, do I find it so
        > hard to form satisfying associations with other anthroposophists?
        > It's a mystery, and one I am a little concerned about, because I
        > had two very difficult experiences over an 8-year period with two
        > very socially unhealthy Waldorf schools, and I think my
        > perspective is colored by an emotional unwillingness to trust the
        > integrity of anthroposophical groups. The first experience was
        > one in which a group of anthropop parents started the school. They
        > and the teachers were on the "inside" and the parents "didn't
        > know who they were serving". It was war, complete with bunker
        > mentality among the "ins" and parents pulling kids out en masse
        > because they didn't feel respected or acknowledged. We left that
        > collapsing school (it subsequently reformed under another name in
        > a nearby town) and went to another, where there was a very powerful
        > and charismatic lead teacher who felt compelled to control
        > everything and was willing to do anything (up to and including
        > accusing the Eurythmy teacher of child molestation) to maintain his
        > power. At the end of this 8 years of financial and emotional stress
        > (my kids had a great time!), I was too burnt out to try again. My
        > instinct, when the opportunity arises to become involved with other
        > anthropops is to run, not walk, the other way! On the other
        > hand, I feel that anthroposophical involvements are essential for my
        > own growth. I have come to the conviction that progressive
        > spiritual beings work with groups, and that social involvements are
        > essential if one is to participate in laying the groundwork for
        > the 6th epoch. Maybe it's just too soon for that, but I have a
        > continuing compulsion to find a group of people with which to begin
        > to
        > grow in this way (hence my interest in threefold ideas). What,
        > exactly, does this mean? What, exactly, do I want to find? What,
        > exactly, do I expect myself and others to be able to do? I don't
        know!
        >
        > I have also been very involved with astrology. I've had a book on
        > astrosophy for about 5 years and have yet to look at it. Astrology
        > was my passion before I got married and had kids. I would immerse
        > myself in it for days on end. That was no longer possible with
        > crying infants, and I gave up active involvement out of frustration.
        > It was just too painful to be "dragged out" every 20 minutes.
        > Now that my kids are teenagers, I have begun reading some again
        > (mainly Liz Greene). It's like a foreign language. If you don't use
        > it, you lose it. Where once I could look at a chart and it would
        > speak to me, now it's just a bunch of isolated elements and I have
        to
        > work (very hard!) to form it into a picture. My main use of
        astrology
        > over the past 15 years has been to consult astrodice when I
        > have a problem. I find them especially useful when trying to find a
        > good reliable service such as a car mechanic or something. They
        > never steer me wrong, as long as I can acquire the right degree of
        > inner calm and centeredness when using them. If I have an agenda
        > I won't acknowledge, they reflect that, which is also useful. Tarot
        > is also an interest of mine, though I'm more at the "cookbook"
        > level with that.
        >
        > Another area of common experience, Dr. Starman, is Edgar Cayce. I
        was
        > part of a study group for about 5 years in my mid-twenties.
        > I still use the mantra, "Not my will, oh Lord, but thine be done in
        > and through me. Let me ever be a channel of blessings, today,
        > now, to all that I contact in every way. Let my coming in and my
        > going out be in accord with that thou wouldst have me do. And as
        the
        > call comes, here am I. Send me. Use me." I found a way into
        wonderful
        > meditations using this along with the Lord's Prayer and the
        > 23rd psalm. Unfortunately, I no longer have those wonderful
        > meditations even though I still use the verses. I've concluded that
        I
        > have to find my meditation in my work and my daily life now.
        >
        > Well, I've certainly rambled enough. Sena, what has brought you to
        an
        > interest in Anthroposophy? What would you like to study?
        > What spiritual "paths" have you travelled so far? Have you had
        > children or friends with children in Waldorf? I'm sorry so much of
        > my message ended up being addressed to Dr. Starman, but I found it
        > interesting that our experiences seem to have paralleled in so
        > many ways.
        >
        > Enjoy your day, both of you -
        > Lorraine

        Hello Lorraine and Dr.Starman,

        Thanks for your apology,Lorraine,but there is no need for it.
        My spiritual path starts with a Roman Catholic upbringing, with
        scepticism setting in during my teenage years. I then read Aldous
        Huxley's "Perennial Philosophy" and was fascinated by this, but
        also rather discouraged by his view that mysticism was only for the
        few. I soon decided that I was not one of the few.
        Years of scientific agnosticism followed until about 1988, when
        someone recommended the books of Alan Watts. I found Watts's
        arguments against the reality of a separate ego appealing and it took
        me another 8 years to realize that this line of thinking could be just
        a rather convenient way of ducking personal responsibilty.
        In 1996 I came into contact with a Gnostic movement which dominated
        my life for the next 3 years. This was based on Blavatsky's theosophy
        and cosmology, with a fair bit of Eliphas Levi's white magic and also
        Eastern religious ideas thrown in. The one good thing about this
        experience was that it made me realize that I could not continue
        avoiding personal responsibility.
        The negative aspect parallels your experience, Lorraine, with the
        anthroposophic groups, although with some differences. At first I
        was with a very small group and I found this tremendously stimulating
        and rewarding. As time went on , however, I realized that the
        organization had a very rigid hierarchical structure with crippling
        rules and regulations.Eventually, the demands of this organization
        left me exhausted, and I left in July 1999.
        Then, about three months ago, I read a book about Steiner's
        ideas -
        "The Tree of Life and the Holy Grail" by Sylvia Francke, which led
        me to Steiner's book, "The Redemption of Thinking". This appealed
        to me because it showed that the intellect did have a role to play
        in spiritual growth although insufficient in itself. This was in
        contrast
        to the Gnostic movement, which ridiculed the intellect, probably to
        discourage any independent thinking among its members. I then went
        on to read "Christ and the Spiritual World: The Search for the Holy
        Grail.".
        As I said before, I hope I am open-minded about Steiner, and I
        realize that if what he says is true confirmation will come from the
        spirit not just from the mind.I am looking forward to our discussions.
        Sena
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