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Fw: [steiner] On Propaganda of the Threefold Social Order

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  • Durward Starman
    Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: drstarman@hotmail.com Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:46:23 To: juancompostella
    Message 1 of 2 , Jan 3, 2013
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      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: drstarman@...
      Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:46:23
      To: juancompostella<juancompostella@...>
      Reply-To: drstarman@...
      Subject: Re: [steiner] On Propaganda of the Threefold Social Order

      ******* Dr. Steiner never wanted his lectures written down, and he frequently explained why: he spoke at that particular time to that particular group of people. The stenographic transcript is an Ahrimanic version of his living interaction with the feelings of that specific audience that night. When he wrote a book for the general public, by contrast, he enunciated general principles true for the whole world wherever they would be read for our entire world-age. . We are studying a written work and he wrote another even longer one on the social order. You will find principles to contemplate there which are universal and meant to be applied throughout our world-age like his other writings, not snapshots of the 1920s situations by a clairvoyant. I want to study what's true for our entire times here. . . . As I've mentioned before, later in the 1920s some of his followers thought there might be an opportunity to try for a Threefold Social Order again, and they thought they could use the same flyers and ads printed in 1919-20, but Steiner said no, they would have to all be re-done because events were moving so fast that they would be found to be not just years, but CENTURIES out of date! . . This also applies to quoting 1920s remarks about Anglo-American 'dominance', which were quite normal things to say for a German clairvoyant right after the Treaty of Versailles. but which are hopelessly out of date in our time with the rise of Arab oil wealth, Asian power etc.--- except of course to provide ammunition for anti-US Marxists to deceive other anthroposophists, as I've seen them used. ;-) . . . We just went over a work for these 12 Holy Nights that has plenty of content to be absorbed, discussed and debated. Why not quote some of that, or his other book on the principles, or your thoughts on these principles he gave out? -starman
      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: juancompostella <juancompostella@...>
      Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 05:19:18
      To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
      Subject: [steiner] On Propaganda of the Threefold Social Order

       




      Let us consider Steiner's speech on the evening of June 9, 1920, wherein he addresses the opposition to 'Threefolding'.
      Can we really say here in the west that we have a real understanding of the issues involved?  We haven't solved it yet.
      http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/TOBS-II/19200609p01.html
    • juancompostella
      Thanks for your comments. I just thought the lecture, along with the one from September of 1920, indicated the kind of progression (and yet developing
      Message 2 of 2 , Jan 3, 2013
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        Thanks for your comments. I just thought the lecture, along with the one from September of 1920, indicated the kind of progression (and yet developing opposition) to Steiner's very cogent and objective thought-plan for threefolding, which the article you cited gave excellent demonstration of.

        The idea of propaganda against threefolding principles is what Steiner saw as the inevitable demise in his day and age. After 1920, he largely left it to itself and returned to more esoteric considerations for soul-spiritual development. But, of course, it was still a keen subject in his mind.

        For my part, I cited a lecture from 11-30-19, which accords quite nicely to the article from "The Social Future", which formed the basis of your commentaries. Did you know that an alternate translation exists on the RS-Archive under the Steiner Articles section? It possibly uses the term 'spiritual' more than yours does, but still conveys how important a conscious spiritual renewal is in the offing.

        We would need this for success in truly producing a threefold world view in our time.

        Regards,

        Juan

        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman " wrote:
        >
        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: drstarman@...
        > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 14:46:23
        > To: juancompostella
        > Reply-To: drstarman@...
        > Subject: Re: [steiner] On Propaganda of the Threefold Social Order
        >
        > ******* Dr. Steiner never wanted his lectures written down, and he frequently explained why: he spoke at that particular time to that particular group of people. The stenographic transcript is an Ahrimanic version of his living interaction with the feelings of that specific audience that night. When he wrote a book for the general public, by contrast, he enunciated general principles true for the whole world wherever they would be read for our entire world-age. . We are studying a written work and he wrote another even longer one on the social order. You will find principles to contemplate there which are universal and meant to be applied throughout our world-age like his other writings, not snapshots of the 1920s situations by a clairvoyant. I want to study what's true for our entire times here. . . . As I've mentioned before, later in the 1920s some of his followers thought there might be an opportunity to try for a Threefold Social Order again, and they thought they could use the same flyers and ads printed in 1919-20, but Steiner said no, they would have to all be re-done because events were moving so fast that they would be found to be not just years, but CENTURIES out of date! . . This also applies to quoting 1920s remarks about Anglo-American 'dominance', which were quite normal things to say for a German clairvoyant right after the Treaty of Versailles. but which are hopelessly out of date in our time with the rise of Arab oil wealth, Asian power etc.--- except of course to provide ammunition for anti-US Marxists to deceive other anthroposophists, as I've seen them used. ;-) . . . We just went over a work for these 12 Holy Nights that has plenty of content to be absorbed, discussed and debated. Why not quote some of that, or his other book on the principles, or your thoughts on these principles he gave out? -starman
        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
        >
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: juancompostella
        > Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 05:19:18
        > To:
        > Subject: [steiner] On Propaganda of the Threefold Social Order
        >
        >  
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Let us consider Steiner's speech on the evening of June 9, 1920, wherein he addresses the opposition to 'Threefolding'.
        > Can we really say here in the west that we have a real understanding of the issues involved?  We haven't solved it yet.
        > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/TOBS-II/19200609p01.html
        >
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