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Re: Introduction

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  • juancompostella
    ... Watch out for the Waldorf_Critics, Ondria. They have a ph.d type like you, who loves to exclaim nonsense about what Steiner fans and admirers believe with
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 4, 2012
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      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Ondria J. Wasem, Ph.D." <ondria@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello,
      >
      > I've just joined. I teach at the Waldorf School of Princeton, I'm in the
      > Waldorf High School teacher training program through the Center for
      > Anthroposophy, and I'm a member of the Anthroposophical Society. I've also
      > been a eurythmy accompanist. Prior to all of this, which started about 6
      > years ago, I was an engineer. I'm also a mom.
      >
      > Well, there's a start...


      Watch out for the Waldorf_Critics, Ondria. They have a ph.d type like you, who loves to exclaim nonsense about what Steiner fans and admirers believe with their anthroposophy and waldorf education principles.

      Many of us stay away from the critics for the simple reason that they are opponents of the science of the spirit. I have been known to take them on in their opposition, which would never serve what you are looking for here.

      Starman told you where the quote came from, and yet you thank the very one that is your enemy, yet you don't know it yet. Is it because he gave the profound referential that Starman left out of account?

      That must be it, right? Yet Starman gave it as exactly as possible three days ago, and you wait to hear it from a scholar. Sad, because your scholar is an enemy; yes, an enemy of anthroposophy and waldorf, Ondry.

      It will only prove itself more the longer you partake with the scholar and his brood, known as the Waldorf_Critics.

      Juan
    • Ondria J. Wasem, Ph.D.
      Dear Starman, I did truly appreciate your response, and continuing my google searching using a phrase from your response, I was finally able to find the exact
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 5, 2012
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        Dear Starman,

        I did truly appreciate your response, and continuing my google searching using a phrase from your response, I was finally able to find the exact reference, exactly the one that the guy on Waldorf_Critics later sent me. When I saw that Juan was so quick to respond to you with thanks, I was lax in letting you know that I too was grateful for the information. I have found everything I've received from you so far, zodiac images, Calendar of the Soul, etc, too be of value.

        Dear Juan,

        Thank you for looking out for me. After reading two posts, I determined that Waldorf_Critics is not the place for me. I sent my question there figuring that if the quote were not really from Steiner, they might be aware of the fallacy, even happy to expose it, and know of the correct source. The tone of the conversation, completely lacking in respect and empathy for the other, is so different from what I experience in Waldorf circles, that I knew I would not stay long. They did not even ask me to introduce myself. That group does not seem motivated to make connection, and I am private enough not to introduce myself when I am not asked. However, I give everyone a chance, and when my question was initially ignored by that group, I decided to stay a member a full week before quitting, in case someone might take up my question. When someone finally answered my question, I thanked him for his effort to respond, as nobody else had yet. When I put out a question in multiple places, I will always wait for responses from all, and be sure they are acknowledged (by someone if not me), even if they are duplicate responses or I had already figured it out for myself.

        I do not tend to think in terms of enemies. People have their biographies, their wounds, their needs. Most people are trying to meet a need even when their strategy is to attack. It can be difficult to understand how their strategy even connects to their needs or feelings, especially when it is negative and destructive. Usually these negative strategies are counterproductive and the needs are never met, and the destruction continues, and that is sad. Perhaps I will eventually recognize an enemy there, but as you say, I do not know it yet.

        Reading what is said on Waldorf-Critics about the lack of education at Waldorf Schools, which I know is not generally true for every student, I can sense where some of the wounds have come from. People forget to take responsibility for themselves and point fingers of blame at others. I know that many Waldorf Schools, ours included, does not have the resources required to meet all needs of every learning challenged student who would like to be there -- it would simply require more staff than we can support or more tuition than we will charge. I believe that it is the parents responsibility to see when something is not working for their child and make a change.

        I meet my own needs by choosing whether to stay or go on these groups. That said, if I ever quit this group, it will be because of email overwhelm, not because of the quality. This email version of the Waldorf community seems to have exactly what I have enjoyed in that community. If I fall silent, I have probably fallen behind in keeping up on posts, or fallen behind somewhere else in my life.

        Thank you so much for your concern, Juan. I hope that you will continue to check in with me.

        Ondy

        On Wed, 05 Sep 2012 00:19:49 -0400, juancompostella <juancompostella@...> wrote:

         

        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Ondria J. Wasem, Ph.D." <ondria@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello,
        >
        > I've just joined. I teach at the Waldorf School of Princeton, I'm in the
        > Waldorf High School teacher training program through the Center for
        > Anthroposophy, and I'm a member of the Anthroposophical Society. I've also
        > been a eurythmy accompanist. Prior to all of this, which started about 6
        > years ago, I was an engineer. I'm also a mom.
        >
        > Well, there's a start...

        Watch out for the Waldorf_Critics, Ondria. They have a ph.d type like you, who loves to exclaim nonsense about what Steiner fans and admirers believe with their anthroposophy and waldorf education principles.

        Many of us stay away from the critics for the simple reason that they are opponents of the science of the spirit. I have been known to take them on in their opposition, which would never serve what you are looking for here.

        Starman told you where the quote came from, and yet you thank the very one that is your enemy, yet you don't know it yet. Is it because he gave the profound referential that Starman left out of account?

        That must be it, right? Yet Starman gave it as exactly as possible three days ago, and you wait to hear it from a scholar. Sad, because your scholar is an enemy; yes, an enemy of anthroposophy and waldorf, Ondry.

        It will only prove itself more the longer you partake with the scholar and his brood, known as the Waldorf_Critics.

        Juan

      • juancompostella
        ... I will. I like your candor, and your comments above are what the critics need to hear. Their group is completely biased against anthroposophy, which they
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 5, 2012
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          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Ondria J. Wasem, Ph.D." <ondria@...> wrote:
          >
          > Dear Starman,
          >
          > I did truly appreciate your response, and continuing my google searching
          > using a phrase from your response, I was finally able to find the exact
          > reference, exactly the one that the guy on Waldorf_Critics later sent me.
          > When I saw that Juan was so quick to respond to you with thanks, I was lax
          > in letting you know that I too was grateful for the information. I have
          > found everything I've received from you so far, zodiac images, Calendar of
          > the Soul, etc, too be of value.
          >
          > Dear Juan,
          >
          > Thank you for looking out for me. After reading two posts, I determined
          > that Waldorf_Critics is not the place for me. I sent my question there
          > figuring that if the quote were not really from Steiner, they might be
          > aware of the fallacy, even happy to expose it, and know of the correct
          > source. The tone of the conversation, completely lacking in respect and
          > empathy for the other, is so different from what I experience in Waldorf
          > circles, that I knew I would not stay long. They did not even ask me to
          > introduce myself. That group does not seem motivated to make connection,
          > and I am private enough not to introduce myself when I am not asked.
          > However, I give everyone a chance, and when my question was initially
          > ignored by that group, I decided to stay a member a full week before
          > quitting, in case someone might take up my question. When someone finally
          > answered my question, I thanked him for his effort to respond, as nobody
          > else had yet. When I put out a question in multiple places, I will always
          > wait for responses from all, and be sure they are acknowledged (by someone
          > if not me), even if they are duplicate responses or I had already figured
          > it out for myself.
          >
          > I do not tend to think in terms of enemies. People have their biographies,
          > their wounds, their needs. Most people are trying to meet a need even when
          > their strategy is to attack. It can be difficult to understand how their
          > strategy even connects to their needs or feelings, especially when it is
          > negative and destructive. Usually these negative strategies are
          > counterproductive and the needs are never met, and the destruction
          > continues, and that is sad. Perhaps I will eventually recognize an enemy
          > there, but as you say, I do not know it yet.
          >
          > Reading what is said on Waldorf-Critics about the lack of education at
          > Waldorf Schools, which I know is not generally true for every student, I
          > can sense where some of the wounds have come from. People forget to take
          > responsibility for themselves and point fingers of blame at others. I know
          > that many Waldorf Schools, ours included, does not have the resources
          > required to meet all needs of every learning challenged student who would
          > like to be there -- it would simply require more staff than we can support
          > or more tuition than we will charge. I believe that it is the parents
          > responsibility to see when something is not working for their child and
          > make a change.
          >
          > I meet my own needs by choosing whether to stay or go on these groups.
          > That said, if I ever quit this group, it will be because of email
          > overwhelm, not because of the quality. This email version of the Waldorf
          > community seems to have exactly what I have enjoyed in that community. If
          > I fall silent, I have probably fallen behind in keeping up on posts, or
          > fallen behind somewhere else in my life.
          >
          > Thank you so much for your concern, Juan. I hope that you will continue to
          > check in with me.
          >
          > Ondy


          I will. I like your candor, and your comments above are what the critics need to hear. Their group is completely biased against anthroposophy, which they use to smear Waldorf education in every way imaginable. On a rare occasion someone comes in to defend Waldorf with qualifications like yours, and this is especially important for them to hear. Yet, they take anything positive with a grain of salt against their assault.

          I am one of the few, and likely the last to have consistently taken it to them in favor of Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and the validity of the Waldorf teacher training methods and schooling principles. I had thought at one time that more of us were working to defend all of this but when I looked around, no one was there.

          I admit to doing a little googling myself in order to ascertain your genuineness, and was very glad to see that you are real; very real. The reason is that your name looks a little like a "troll name", and these are people who hide behind a false name in order to play mischief. Why, I don't know.

          I looked over your enormous scientific references, and then saw an interesting description (very candid) of health-related issues, which made me think of what I have had to endure in my line of work in the past. I am much more relaxed and happy now that I can be a full-time student and proclaimer of the Science of the Spirit.

          Thanks Ondy.

          Juan
        • juancompostella
          ... Waldorf_Critics like to bite and chew their opponents, which is you, even as you demonstrate good-will, courtesy, professional ethics,
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 7, 2012
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            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Ondria J. Wasem, Ph.D." <ondria@...> wrote:

            > Dear Juan,
            >
            > Thank you for looking out for me. After reading two posts, I determined
            > that Waldorf_Critics is not the place for me. I sent my question there
            > figuring that if the quote were not really from Steiner, they might be
            > aware of the fallacy, even happy to expose it, and know of the correct
            > source. The tone of the conversation, completely lacking in respect and
            > empathy for the other, is so different from what I experience in Waldorf
            > circles, that I knew I would not stay long. They did not even ask me to
            > introduce myself. That group does not seem motivated to make connection,
            > and I am private enough not to introduce myself when I am not asked.
            <snip>


            Waldorf_Critics like to bite and chew their opponents, which is you, even as you demonstrate good-will, courtesy, professional ethics, knowledge/experience, ability, and so forth....

            Diana was a meager teachers aide when her boy was in kindergarten at the Philadelphia Waldorf School. Then she put him in a quaker school, which means her experience is next to nil. She studies anthroposophy only to refute it in terms of a materialistic apprehension of the world and its beings. Her big passion is eagle watching and birthing ratios.

            Peter S. seems to want anthroposophical discussion, but only as a ploy designed to imply that anthro's haven't the acumen for it. Yet, it can be shown that it has been given, offered, and even challenged for!

            Yet, and this is important in terms of professional ethics, this guy is the biggest and most clever dissembler out there, who will take and twist words and name-drop to no end in a quest that can only be equated to a kind of "secular jesuitism", which is an old term for someone to watch out for when you're seeking and advocating truth; truth and knowledge towards wisdom.

            Juan
          • marla hanan
            Hi. I am happy to have stumbled upon this group. I am a mother to three boys, we have been part of a Waldorf school community for five years and before that I
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 25, 2012
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              Hi. I am happy to have stumbled upon this group.

              I am a mother to three boys, we have been part of a Waldorf school community for five years and before that I started my own. 

              We have now ventured out into the wider world of public school, but Steiner and Waldorf education still informs much of our life and it has been a great gift to study Steiner's work.

              Thank you and with blessings.


            • Durward Starman
              Welcome to our group, Marla. Perhaps we could have a discussion about Waldorf Education here. We just had an interesting one on Steiner s philosophy. -starman
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 25, 2012
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                Welcome to our group, Marla. Perhaps we could have a discussion about Waldorf Education here. We just had an interesting one on Steiner's philosophy.
                 
                -starman

                www.DrStarman.com
                 

                To: steiner@yahoogroups.com
                From: mhanan33@...
                Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2012 12:19:13 -0500
                Subject: [steiner] Introduction

                 
                Hi. I am happy to have stumbled upon this group.

                I am a mother to three boys, we have been part of a Waldorf school community for five years and before that I started my own. 

                We have now ventured out into the wider world of public school, but Steiner and Waldorf education still informs much of our life and it has been a great gift to study Steiner's work.

                Thank you and with blessings.



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