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Re: readers' notice

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  • juancompostella
    Starman, in consideration of Robert s post herein, it appears that the enemies of Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy are having a field day in other quarters
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 20 9:17 PM
      Starman, in consideration of Robert's post herein, it appears that the enemies of Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy are having a 'field day' in other quarters concerning the concept of "holocaust denial", and how it seems to be particularly acute among the anthroposophists.

      Yet, there is a great amount of evidence, as Robert suggests, that Hitler was a kind of conjuration coming from out of the British camp of the Western Empire in the days even before the start of WW I.

      As such, it is not be be denied, or taken lightly that the western occult powers had the idea and means to unfold an occult form of geopolitics which for certain reasons made Germany the central enemy of their agenda. This was owing to the fact that the Central European cultural stream has a destiny relationship with the Christ as "I Am", and so those powers coming from the Soradtic west have to oppose what is 'German Folk Soul'.

      One specific example used by the opponents of anthroposophy today is the Russian anthroposophist, Gennady Bondarev, who is considered to be the figurehead of antisemitism and rejection of a so-called "holocaust of the Jews" as a kind of defense of Hitler. Yet, any sober mind can look and see that Bondarev never denied the program of mass extermination of the Jewish populace of Europe during the reign of the conjured Hitler.

      He only wondered about the method and how its accomplishment involving six millions Jews in Europe could have occurred in such great numbers without also endangering the general population as well. In other words, Bondarev never denied that a so-called "Holocaust" took place. His concern was size and number.

      Juan


      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman " <DrStarman@...> wrote:
      >
      > *******I think this is off-topic for our list; I see little connection with the study of Steiner. -starman
      > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: RobertM <robertsmason_99@...>
      > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:13:59
      > To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: [steiner] readers' notice
      >
      >  
      >
      >
      >
      > "So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world
      > is governed by very different personages from
      > what is imagined by those who are not behind the
      > scenes."
      > *Coningsby*, by Disraeli, Longmans Co., London,
      > 1881, p. 252 (Disraeli, Prime Minister of
      > England during Queen Victoria's reign)
      >
      > To All:
      >
      > On July 26 I received a note from Willy Lochmann
      > about his recent article in his newsletter
      > *Symptomatologische Illustrationen*.
      >
      > http://lochmann-verlag.com/no_88_esm-fiskalpakt.pdf
      >
      > Unhappily for me, it is in the German language, and
      > I read German like a duck making love to a football.
      > I tried, but at best I could understand maybe ten
      > percent of the article, if that. Even if it
      > were in English I wouldn't have the time to do
      > it justice; now I hardly get any time online or
      > for Anthroposophy in general. But I am trying
      > to make enough time to post this little notice,
      > albeit much delayed, hoping that someone else
      > might do an English translation and that a
      > little much-needed truth might get around more.
      >
      > Willy L. presents this article to give his
      > "opinion on the 'Third Reich' and the 'Führer',
      > also for people like Staudenmeier & Co." He
      > says, "All real Nazis will be angry with me!"
      > But it was always my position, and the ESM gave
      > me the possibility to point it out."
      >
      > The occasion that provoked the article was the
      > effort to "stabilize" the "Euro". WL sees this
      > effort as an instance of the continuing
      > plundering of (rump) Germany, and this
      > plundering as a continuation of the long war
      > against Germany herself. (The war has been
      > going on at least four hundred years, if not
      > longer. -- RM)
      >
      > The article has far too much "meat" for me to
      > comment on here, even the little that I
      > understood of it. For now, I'll just pick out a
      > few points: one, the idea that Hitler was
      > working all along for the occult-political
      > powers that are hostile to Germany. The idea is
      > hardly unique to WL, and there is much evidence
      > on the public record to support it.
      >
      > For instance: "After overrunning France, Hitler
      > ordered his armies to stop and allow the
      > British and French armies to escape from Dunkirk
      > to England. This made no sense at all unless
      > Hitler had a secret agenda." (savethemales.ca -
      > "Nazis and Soviets Acted as One"; see also "Was
      > Hitler A 'British' Agent?" by Henry Makow PhD,
      > and "Was Hitler An Illuminati Agent?")
      >
      > The real "miracle of Dunkirk" was not so much
      > the evacuation as the fact the Hitler allowed
      > the escape of the British army, which the
      > Wehrmacht could have destroyed.
      >
      > As documented in *Dirty Little Secrets Of WWII
      > The Hidden, Awkward Origins Of World War 2* By
      > Jason Collett:
      >
      > ***
      > Hitler wanted peace with Britain, as the German
      > generals admitted (Basil Liddell Hart, *The
      > Other Side of the Hill 1948*, Pan Books 1983)
      > with regard to the so-called Halt Order at
      > Dunkirk, where Hitler had the opportunity to
      > capture the entire British Army, but chose not
      > to. Liddell Hart, one of Britain's most
      > respected military historians, quotes the German
      > General von Blumentritt with regard to this Halt
      > Order: "He (Hitler) then astonished us by
      > speaking with admiration of the British Empire,
      > of the necessity for its existence, and of the
      > civilisation that Britain had brought into the
      > world. He remarked, with a shrug of the
      > shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had
      > been achieved by means that were often harsh,
      > but 'where there is planing, there are shavings
      > flying'. He compared the British Empire with the
      > catholic Church ­ saying they were both
      > essential elements of stability in the world. He
      > said that all he wanted from Britain was that
      > she should acknowledge Germany's position on the
      > Continent. The return of Germany's colonies
      > would be desirable but not essential, and he
      > would even offer to support Britain with troops
      > if she should be involved in difficulties
      > anywhere.." (p 200). According to Liddell
      > Hart, "At the time we believed that the repulse
      > of the Luftwaffe in the 'Battle over Britain'
      > had saved her. That is only part of the
      > explanation, the last part of it. The original
      > cause, which goes much deeper, is that Hitler
      > did not want to conquer England. He took little
      > interest in the invasion preparations, and for
      > weeks did nothing to spur them on; then, after a
      > brief impulse to invade, he veered around again
      > and suspended the preparations. He was
      > preparing, instead, to invade Russia" (p140).
      > ***
      >
      > And again, not only was Hitler protecting the
      > British, the British were apparently protecting
      > Hitler. For instance, from "British Aimed For
      > End Of Germany, Not Nazism" *Executive
      > Intelligence Review*, October, 1998:
      >
      > ***
      > "It was not only for lack of support from
      > circles outside the country, especially in Great
      > Britain, but due to deliberate, direct sabotage
      > of such attempts by the British government. The
      > British acted repeatedly to ensure that no plot
      > to overthrow Hitler or kill him would succeed."
      >
      > "As documented in *The Ghosts of Peace: 1935-
      > 1945*, a book by Richard Lamb (Great Britain:
      > Michael Russel, 1987), there were numerous
      > conspirators, beginning in 1938, who sought to
      > overthrow Hitler."
      >
      > "It was the extinction of Germany, not the
      > defeat of Nazism, which was the priority of the
      > British."
      > ***
      >
      > -- Lochmann is surely not the only one saying
      > such things; it is very apparent that, despite
      > being supposedly deadly enemies, Hitler behaved
      > very strangely toward the British and that the
      > British behaved very strangely toward him. And
      > it surely is not out of the question that Hitler
      > all along was an agent of the occult-political
      > powers seeking to destroy Germany, that he had
      > the assignment of getting Germany into a total
      > war on all sides and then of making sure that
      > Germany lost that war. It must be admitted, to
      > all outward appearances, that he carried out
      > such an assignment to perfection, perhaps
      > unknowingly.
      >
      > -- Another point: The present, sad state of
      > rump Germany is due largely to the fact that the
      > Germans themselves have been "re-educated" to
      > believe in their own perfidy and guilt. This
      > "re-education" had been planned long in advance
      > (as outlined in the book *What to do with
      > Germany?* by Louis Nizer) and has been carried
      > out, once again, apparently to perfection. To
      > this outside observer, it appears that the
      > Germans are simply pathetic, wallowing in self-
      > abnegation and ignorance. But are they any more
      > pathetic than, say, the American people? -- I,
      > for one, would say not: all peoples of the so-
      > called "advanced" world are under mass mind-
      > control and are thus working to their own
      > detriment under the direction of The Powers That
      > Be.
      >
      > As I have mentioned before, I can only see that
      > such subjection to mass mind-control is due to a
      > massive failure of the nascent mass
      > Consciousness Soul. How such failure has been
      > brought about and what can be done to remedy it
      > are the most pressing questions of the current
      > socio-political situation.
      >
      > Another couple of points, just "teasers":
      >
      > In 1924 STEINER SAID: "Man darf nicht
      > vergessen, dass jetzt von massgebenden
      > Persönlichkeiten etwa das Folgende gesprochen
      > wird. Diejenigen, welche das Prinzip der
      > römischen Kirche vertreten, werden alles daran
      > setzen, in der nächsten Zeit die einzelnen
      > Staaten des ehemaligen Deutschen Reiches
      > selbständig zu machen und aus den selbständigen
      > Staaten, mit Ausschliessung - ich erzähle nur -
      > der Vorherrschaft von Preussen, wieder
      > aufzurichten das Heilige Römische Reich
      > Deutscher Nation, das sich selbstverständlich,
      > wenn es von so hervorragender Seite aufgerichtet
      > wird, in seiner Macht über die umliegenden
      > Nachbargebiete erstrecken wird." -- And, is that
      > not essentially what happened? Recall Hitler's
      > remark: "He compared the British Empire with
      > the catholic Church ­ saying they were both
      > essential elements of stability in the world."
      >
      > Another: the idea that mass Nazism was never
      > really German; it was Chinese!
      >
      > -- Those are just a few morsels to whet the
      > appetite for the whole article. WL wrote: "I
      > don't know if it ever will be translated." I do
      > hope that it will be translated into English and
      > find the readership that it deserves. Really,
      > the truth about the Second World War has never
      > been told to the general public, only a few
      > dribs and drabs have leaked out here and there
      > in obscure publications -- and, sad to say, the
      > major Anthroposophical institutions have been
      > but little help in getting the truth out. Most
      > of the heavy lifting has been done by non-
      > Anthros, along with a few, harried Anthros like
      > Bondarev and Lochmann, and a few others. The
      > world needs to know the truth about that War,
      > then people might come to know the truth about
      > the present world-crisis. But, pessimist that I
      > am, I don't see that happening soon enough to
      > prevent another catastrophe.
      >
      > Nevertheless, I call upon someone who knows
      > German and English to translate at least this
      > article, so that those of us trapped in the
      > English language might have our minds opened a
      > little.
      >
      > "So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world
      > is governed by very different personages from
      > what is imagined by those who are not behind the
      > scenes." -- Benjamin Disraeli was a successful
      > British politician at the height of British
      > world-power, and he was thus in a position to
      > know what he was talking about, even though he
      > said it in a fictionalized format. But the
      > essential truth has not changed, and the world
      > needs to know that.
      >
      > Robert Mason
      >
    • be23566
      Why not show them this video The Invention Of God And Religion and engage them in an argument that is important to have. Isn t the fact that their religion
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 22 3:01 PM
        Why not show them this video "The Invention Of God And Religion" and engage them in an argument that is important to have. Isn't the fact that their religion is an invention more important than holocaust denial? That religion is the invention of man doesn't invalidate religion, but it puts it in its proper place. Steiner even invented a religion, the CC movement, so he believed an invented religion has value and does meet the needs of some.
        http://www.philosophyoffreedom.com/node/5722

        Tom Last


        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "juancompostella" <juancompostella@...> wrote:
        >
        > Starman, in consideration of Robert's post herein, it appears that the enemies of Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy are having a 'field day' in other quarters concerning the concept of "holocaust denial", and how it seems to be particularly acute among the anthroposophists.
        >
        > Yet, there is a great amount of evidence, as Robert suggests, that Hitler was a kind of conjuration coming from out of the British camp of the Western Empire in the days even before the start of WW I.
        >
        > As such, it is not be be denied, or taken lightly that the western occult powers had the idea and means to unfold an occult form of geopolitics which for certain reasons made Germany the central enemy of their agenda. This was owing to the fact that the Central European cultural stream has a destiny relationship with the Christ as "I Am", and so those powers coming from the Soradtic west have to oppose what is 'German Folk Soul'.
        >
        > One specific example used by the opponents of anthroposophy today is the Russian anthroposophist, Gennady Bondarev, who is considered to be the figurehead of antisemitism and rejection of a so-called "holocaust of the Jews" as a kind of defense of Hitler. Yet, any sober mind can look and see that Bondarev never denied the program of mass extermination of the Jewish populace of Europe during the reign of the conjured Hitler.
        >
        > He only wondered about the method and how its accomplishment involving six millions Jews in Europe could have occurred in such great numbers without also endangering the general population as well. In other words, Bondarev never denied that a so-called "Holocaust" took place. His concern was size and number.
        >
        > Juan
        >
        >
        > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman " <DrStarman@> wrote:
        > >
        > > *******I think this is off-topic for our list; I see little connection with the study of Steiner. -starman
        > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
        > >
        > > -----Original Message-----
        > > From: RobertM <robertsmason_99@>
        > > Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2012 15:13:59
        > > To: <steiner@yahoogroups.com>
        > > Subject: [steiner] readers' notice
        > >
        > >  
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world
        > > is governed by very different personages from
        > > what is imagined by those who are not behind the
        > > scenes."
        > > *Coningsby*, by Disraeli, Longmans Co., London,
        > > 1881, p. 252 (Disraeli, Prime Minister of
        > > England during Queen Victoria's reign)
        > >
        > > To All:
        > >
        > > On July 26 I received a note from Willy Lochmann
        > > about his recent article in his newsletter
        > > *Symptomatologische Illustrationen*.
        > >
        > > http://lochmann-verlag.com/no_88_esm-fiskalpakt.pdf
        > >
        > > Unhappily for me, it is in the German language, and
        > > I read German like a duck making love to a football.
        > > I tried, but at best I could understand maybe ten
        > > percent of the article, if that. Even if it
        > > were in English I wouldn't have the time to do
        > > it justice; now I hardly get any time online or
        > > for Anthroposophy in general. But I am trying
        > > to make enough time to post this little notice,
        > > albeit much delayed, hoping that someone else
        > > might do an English translation and that a
        > > little much-needed truth might get around more.
        > >
        > > Willy L. presents this article to give his
        > > "opinion on the 'Third Reich' and the 'Führer',
        > > also for people like Staudenmeier & Co." He
        > > says, "All real Nazis will be angry with me!"
        > > But it was always my position, and the ESM gave
        > > me the possibility to point it out."
        > >
        > > The occasion that provoked the article was the
        > > effort to "stabilize" the "Euro". WL sees this
        > > effort as an instance of the continuing
        > > plundering of (rump) Germany, and this
        > > plundering as a continuation of the long war
        > > against Germany herself. (The war has been
        > > going on at least four hundred years, if not
        > > longer. -- RM)
        > >
        > > The article has far too much "meat" for me to
        > > comment on here, even the little that I
        > > understood of it. For now, I'll just pick out a
        > > few points: one, the idea that Hitler was
        > > working all along for the occult-political
        > > powers that are hostile to Germany. The idea is
        > > hardly unique to WL, and there is much evidence
        > > on the public record to support it.
        > >
        > > For instance: "After overrunning France, Hitler
        > > ordered his armies to stop and allow the
        > > British and French armies to escape from Dunkirk
        > > to England. This made no sense at all unless
        > > Hitler had a secret agenda." (savethemales.ca -
        > > "Nazis and Soviets Acted as One"; see also "Was
        > > Hitler A 'British' Agent?" by Henry Makow PhD,
        > > and "Was Hitler An Illuminati Agent?")
        > >
        > > The real "miracle of Dunkirk" was not so much
        > > the evacuation as the fact the Hitler allowed
        > > the escape of the British army, which the
        > > Wehrmacht could have destroyed.
        > >
        > > As documented in *Dirty Little Secrets Of WWII
        > > The Hidden, Awkward Origins Of World War 2* By
        > > Jason Collett:
        > >
        > > ***
        > > Hitler wanted peace with Britain, as the German
        > > generals admitted (Basil Liddell Hart, *The
        > > Other Side of the Hill 1948*, Pan Books 1983)
        > > with regard to the so-called Halt Order at
        > > Dunkirk, where Hitler had the opportunity to
        > > capture the entire British Army, but chose not
        > > to. Liddell Hart, one of Britain's most
        > > respected military historians, quotes the German
        > > General von Blumentritt with regard to this Halt
        > > Order: "He (Hitler) then astonished us by
        > > speaking with admiration of the British Empire,
        > > of the necessity for its existence, and of the
        > > civilisation that Britain had brought into the
        > > world. He remarked, with a shrug of the
        > > shoulders, that the creation of its Empire had
        > > been achieved by means that were often harsh,
        > > but 'where there is planing, there are shavings
        > > flying'. He compared the British Empire with the
        > > catholic Church ­ saying they were both
        > > essential elements of stability in the world. He
        > > said that all he wanted from Britain was that
        > > she should acknowledge Germany's position on the
        > > Continent. The return of Germany's colonies
        > > would be desirable but not essential, and he
        > > would even offer to support Britain with troops
        > > if she should be involved in difficulties
        > > anywhere.." (p 200). According to Liddell
        > > Hart, "At the time we believed that the repulse
        > > of the Luftwaffe in the 'Battle over Britain'
        > > had saved her. That is only part of the
        > > explanation, the last part of it. The original
        > > cause, which goes much deeper, is that Hitler
        > > did not want to conquer England. He took little
        > > interest in the invasion preparations, and for
        > > weeks did nothing to spur them on; then, after a
        > > brief impulse to invade, he veered around again
        > > and suspended the preparations. He was
        > > preparing, instead, to invade Russia" (p140).
        > > ***
        > >
        > > And again, not only was Hitler protecting the
        > > British, the British were apparently protecting
        > > Hitler. For instance, from "British Aimed For
        > > End Of Germany, Not Nazism" *Executive
        > > Intelligence Review*, October, 1998:
        > >
        > > ***
        > > "It was not only for lack of support from
        > > circles outside the country, especially in Great
        > > Britain, but due to deliberate, direct sabotage
        > > of such attempts by the British government. The
        > > British acted repeatedly to ensure that no plot
        > > to overthrow Hitler or kill him would succeed."
        > >
        > > "As documented in *The Ghosts of Peace: 1935-
        > > 1945*, a book by Richard Lamb (Great Britain:
        > > Michael Russel, 1987), there were numerous
        > > conspirators, beginning in 1938, who sought to
        > > overthrow Hitler."
        > >
        > > "It was the extinction of Germany, not the
        > > defeat of Nazism, which was the priority of the
        > > British."
        > > ***
        > >
        > > -- Lochmann is surely not the only one saying
        > > such things; it is very apparent that, despite
        > > being supposedly deadly enemies, Hitler behaved
        > > very strangely toward the British and that the
        > > British behaved very strangely toward him. And
        > > it surely is not out of the question that Hitler
        > > all along was an agent of the occult-political
        > > powers seeking to destroy Germany, that he had
        > > the assignment of getting Germany into a total
        > > war on all sides and then of making sure that
        > > Germany lost that war. It must be admitted, to
        > > all outward appearances, that he carried out
        > > such an assignment to perfection, perhaps
        > > unknowingly.
        > >
        > > -- Another point: The present, sad state of
        > > rump Germany is due largely to the fact that the
        > > Germans themselves have been "re-educated" to
        > > believe in their own perfidy and guilt. This
        > > "re-education" had been planned long in advance
        > > (as outlined in the book *What to do with
        > > Germany?* by Louis Nizer) and has been carried
        > > out, once again, apparently to perfection. To
        > > this outside observer, it appears that the
        > > Germans are simply pathetic, wallowing in self-
        > > abnegation and ignorance. But are they any more
        > > pathetic than, say, the American people? -- I,
        > > for one, would say not: all peoples of the so-
        > > called "advanced" world are under mass mind-
        > > control and are thus working to their own
        > > detriment under the direction of The Powers That
        > > Be.
        > >
        > > As I have mentioned before, I can only see that
        > > such subjection to mass mind-control is due to a
        > > massive failure of the nascent mass
        > > Consciousness Soul. How such failure has been
        > > brought about and what can be done to remedy it
        > > are the most pressing questions of the current
        > > socio-political situation.
        > >
        > > Another couple of points, just "teasers":
        > >
        > > In 1924 STEINER SAID: "Man darf nicht
        > > vergessen, dass jetzt von massgebenden
        > > Persönlichkeiten etwa das Folgende gesprochen
        > > wird. Diejenigen, welche das Prinzip der
        > > römischen Kirche vertreten, werden alles daran
        > > setzen, in der nächsten Zeit die einzelnen
        > > Staaten des ehemaligen Deutschen Reiches
        > > selbständig zu machen und aus den selbständigen
        > > Staaten, mit Ausschliessung - ich erzähle nur -
        > > der Vorherrschaft von Preussen, wieder
        > > aufzurichten das Heilige Römische Reich
        > > Deutscher Nation, das sich selbstverständlich,
        > > wenn es von so hervorragender Seite aufgerichtet
        > > wird, in seiner Macht über die umliegenden
        > > Nachbargebiete erstrecken wird." -- And, is that
        > > not essentially what happened? Recall Hitler's
        > > remark: "He compared the British Empire with
        > > the catholic Church ­ saying they were both
        > > essential elements of stability in the world."
        > >
        > > Another: the idea that mass Nazism was never
        > > really German; it was Chinese!
        > >
        > > -- Those are just a few morsels to whet the
        > > appetite for the whole article. WL wrote: "I
        > > don't know if it ever will be translated." I do
        > > hope that it will be translated into English and
        > > find the readership that it deserves. Really,
        > > the truth about the Second World War has never
        > > been told to the general public, only a few
        > > dribs and drabs have leaked out here and there
        > > in obscure publications -- and, sad to say, the
        > > major Anthroposophical institutions have been
        > > but little help in getting the truth out. Most
        > > of the heavy lifting has been done by non-
        > > Anthros, along with a few, harried Anthros like
        > > Bondarev and Lochmann, and a few others. The
        > > world needs to know the truth about that War,
        > > then people might come to know the truth about
        > > the present world-crisis. But, pessimist that I
        > > am, I don't see that happening soon enough to
        > > prevent another catastrophe.
        > >
        > > Nevertheless, I call upon someone who knows
        > > German and English to translate at least this
        > > article, so that those of us trapped in the
        > > English language might have our minds opened a
        > > little.
        > >
        > > "So you see, my dear Coningsby, that the world
        > > is governed by very different personages from
        > > what is imagined by those who are not behind the
        > > scenes." -- Benjamin Disraeli was a successful
        > > British politician at the height of British
        > > world-power, and he was thus in a position to
        > > know what he was talking about, even though he
        > > said it in a fictionalized format. But the
        > > essential truth has not changed, and the world
        > > needs to know that.
        > >
        > > Robert Mason
        > >
        >
      • juancompostella
        I watched the video, and see all the ear-markings of what religious propaganda can mean, and maybe being a good christian today means accepting all aspects of
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 22 7:43 PM
          I watched the video, and see all the ear-markings of what religious propaganda can mean, and maybe being a good christian today means accepting all aspects of the Jewish Holocaust. Not sure what connection you're making, Tom, with "why not show them the video."
          I do know that Rudolf Steiner did not invent a religion for CC, as the below lecture describes very well coming two days before the Goetheanum burned down. He was only helping out the young theologians and Dr. Rittelmeyer in getting a liturgical form going for this 'movement for religious renewal'. While they could not accept anthroposophy directly, Steiner formulated a means by which they could eventually arrive at spiritual science, and then CC would simply drop away. Of course, this has not happened, nor has CC ever taken up the indications that Steiner gave in his September 1924 course to the Priests concerning using the Book of Revelation as the way to a fourth mystery epoch of our time.

          http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/RelMov_index.html

          Friedrich Rittelmeyer's 1928 memoir, "Rudolf Steiner Enters My Life" is very informative concerning what he was looking for, c. 1910, and what he found in his relationship with Dr. Steiner.

          Juan

          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "be23566" <fairoaks@...> wrote:
          >
          > Why not show them this video "The Invention Of God And Religion" and engage them in an argument that is important to have. Isn't the fact that their religion is an invention more important than holocaust denial? That religion is the invention of man doesn't invalidate religion, but it puts it in its proper place. Steiner even invented a religion, the CC movement, so he believed an invented religion has value and does meet the needs of some.
          > http://www.philosophyoffreedom.com/node/5722
          >
          > Tom Last
          >
          >
          > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "juancompostella" <juancompostella@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Starman, in consideration of Robert's post herein, it appears that the enemies of Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy are having a 'field day' in other quarters concerning the concept of "holocaust denial", and how it seems to be particularly acute among the anthroposophists.
          > >
          > > Yet, there is a great amount of evidence, as Robert suggests, that Hitler was a kind of conjuration coming from out of the British camp of the Western Empire in the days even before the start of WW I.
          > >
          > > As such, it is not be be denied, or taken lightly that the western occult powers had the idea and means to unfold an occult form of geopolitics which for certain reasons made Germany the central enemy of their agenda. This was owing to the fact that the Central European cultural stream has a destiny relationship with the Christ as "I Am", and so those powers coming from the Soradtic west have to oppose what is 'German Folk Soul'.
          > >
          > > One specific example used by the opponents of anthroposophy today is the Russian anthroposophist, Gennady Bondarev, who is considered to be the figurehead of antisemitism and rejection of a so-called "holocaust of the Jews" as a kind of defense of Hitler. Yet, any sober mind can look and see that Bondarev never denied the program of mass extermination of the Jewish populace of Europe during the reign of the conjured Hitler.
          > >
          > > He only wondered about the method and how its accomplishment involving six millions Jews in Europe could have occurred in such great numbers without also endangering the general population as well. In other words, Bondarev never denied that a so-called "Holocaust" took place. His concern was size and number.
          > >
          > > Juan
        • be23566
          The religious liturgical form given by Steiner was an artistic creation (invention) that was the result of a human beings thoughts that translated truths into
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 22 9:43 PM
            The religious liturgical form given by Steiner was an artistic creation (invention) that was the result of a human beings thoughts that translated truths into forms and words. This liturgy would not exist if Steiner hadn't created it as I doubt that God carved it into stone tablets for him (or carved it into his mind).

            The connection between the issue of the validity of religion and the Jewish holocaust is that I see religion and politics as the source behind the power given to this particular human tragedy to suppress people and free thinking. To weaken religion will weaken religions power to bring its great harm to the world. (remember, religious history is mapped out according to world war history)

            My own experience is that an attempt was made to suppress Bondarev's POF work on my website. I find the suppression of the free exchange of ideas repulsive and always rooted in an attempt by others to control people for their own advantage.

            Tom Last

            --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "juancompostella" <juancompostella@...> wrote:
            >
            > I watched the video, and see all the ear-markings of what religious propaganda can mean, and maybe being a good christian today means accepting all aspects of the Jewish Holocaust. Not sure what connection you're making, Tom, with "why not show them the video."
            > I do know that Rudolf Steiner did not invent a religion for CC, as the below lecture describes very well coming two days before the Goetheanum burned down. He was only helping out the young theologians and Dr. Rittelmeyer in getting a liturgical form going for this 'movement for religious renewal'. While they could not accept anthroposophy directly, Steiner formulated a means by which they could eventually arrive at spiritual science, and then CC would simply drop away. Of course, this has not happened, nor has CC ever taken up the indications that Steiner gave in his September 1924 course to the Priests concerning using the Book of Revelation as the way to a fourth mystery epoch of our time.
            >
            > http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/RelMov_index.html
            >
            > Friedrich Rittelmeyer's 1928 memoir, "Rudolf Steiner Enters My Life" is very informative concerning what he was looking for, c. 1910, and what he found in his relationship with Dr. Steiner.
            >
            > Juan
            >
            > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "be23566" <fairoaks@> wrote:
            > >
            > > Why not show them this video "The Invention Of God And Religion" and engage them in an argument that is important to have. Isn't the fact that their religion is an invention more important than holocaust denial? That religion is the invention of man doesn't invalidate religion, but it puts it in its proper place. Steiner even invented a religion, the CC movement, so he believed an invented religion has value and does meet the needs of some.
            > > http://www.philosophyoffreedom.com/node/5722
            > >
            > > Tom Last
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "juancompostella" <juancompostella@> wrote:
            > > >
            > > > Starman, in consideration of Robert's post herein, it appears that the enemies of Rudolf Steiner and anthroposophy are having a 'field day' in other quarters concerning the concept of "holocaust denial", and how it seems to be particularly acute among the anthroposophists.
            > > >
            > > > Yet, there is a great amount of evidence, as Robert suggests, that Hitler was a kind of conjuration coming from out of the British camp of the Western Empire in the days even before the start of WW I.
            > > >
            > > > As such, it is not be be denied, or taken lightly that the western occult powers had the idea and means to unfold an occult form of geopolitics which for certain reasons made Germany the central enemy of their agenda. This was owing to the fact that the Central European cultural stream has a destiny relationship with the Christ as "I Am", and so those powers coming from the Soradtic west have to oppose what is 'German Folk Soul'.
            > > >
            > > > One specific example used by the opponents of anthroposophy today is the Russian anthroposophist, Gennady Bondarev, who is considered to be the figurehead of antisemitism and rejection of a so-called "holocaust of the Jews" as a kind of defense of Hitler. Yet, any sober mind can look and see that Bondarev never denied the program of mass extermination of the Jewish populace of Europe during the reign of the conjured Hitler.
            > > >
            > > > He only wondered about the method and how its accomplishment involving six millions Jews in Europe could have occurred in such great numbers without also endangering the general population as well. In other words, Bondarev never denied that a so-called "Holocaust" took place. His concern was size and number.
            > > >
            > > > Juan
            >
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