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Re: Comparing Ayn Rand and Steiner

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  • juancompostella
    ... If Steiner was Aristotle then Rand never knew her idol engaged in what she would have termed, mysticism , in his next life. And, even more profound, she
    Message 1 of 8 , Aug 13, 2012
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      --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman " <DrStarman@...> wrote:

      > ******* Greetings Juan. Quite a serendipity. Perhaps we can have a useful philosophical discussion here. I'm sure many members would like learning more of Steiner's ethical individualism, which I think parallels Rand's Objectivism... Understandable as it is a form of Aristotelianism, and he was Aristotle himself reincarnated! -starman


      If Steiner was Aristotle then Rand never knew her idol engaged in
      what she would have termed, "mysticism", in his next life. And, even more profound, she would have rejected him. Interesting to think about this, as Ayn Rand eschewed all things involving mysticism, which would have included Steiner's so-called "spiritual science-anthroposophy".

      Juan
    • juancompostella
      ... I believe that ethical individualism, if it indeed stands at the heart of Steiner s philosophy, will prove to stand far above Rand s objectivism for the
      Message 2 of 8 , Aug 13, 2012
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        --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "be23566" <fairoaks@...> wrote:
        >
        > Thanks Starman. While Ayn Rand is very clear about her terms and a good glossary exists, not as clear with Steiner, so I think I will start putting together a glossary of Steiner's terms for reference.
        > Tom
        > philosophyoffreedom.com


        I believe that ethical individualism, if it indeed stands at the heart of Steiner's philosophy, will prove to stand far above Rand's objectivism for the reason that it predicts a spiritual evolution involving the ego. Rand, of course, sees the Ego as supreme, and wants to exemplify this ego in her heroes, who stand as tall as skyscrapers and even have the audacity to call a strike for the cause of free creative being.

        But where are the differences between these two outlooks? Rand sees the beauty of pure selfishness in one's own creative quest for self. Steiner sees an ethic to it all, which would indicate he has seriously involved himself in the idealist philosophy of Germany's great thinkers, and wants to bring their thought-streams to a kind of nexus point, which was embraced in "The Philosophy of Freedom."

        What has intrigued me for years is the question: Did Rudolf Steiner
        culminate German Idealism with the expounding of its fourth and final form with PoF? I think so, yet by the time that he did, Kant had already gained the epistemological advantage largely because he was a student of Hume and Newton. This, I believe, was the big factor in
        why Steiner could not even make sense to Hartmann, whose own book, "The Philosophy of the Unconscious", was so obscure as to make him write his own negation of it in order to appeal it to those that would finally begin to read it.

        And that act was a major act of creative genius on Edouard von Hartmann's part, designed to show that by negating a work of new knowledge in support of the old-line of thinking, one can himself propel it forward, if he is creative enough to do so, as von Hartmann was.

        Steiner just kept at it after PoF was published in 1894, and tried to improve and find his way to his supreme mission, which involved a kind of rewrite of PoF for a new audience in 1904.

        Juan
      • juancompostella
        ... A useful philosophical discussion can happen, yes, and I believe it begins within an atmosphere of free expression wherein we each give our immediate
        Message 3 of 8 , Aug 13, 2012
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          --- In steiner@yahoogroups.com, "Durward Starman " <DrStarman@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
          >
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: drstarman@...
          > Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2012 04:14:51
          > To: juancompostella<juancompostella@...>
          > Reply-To: drstarman@...
          > Subject: Re: [steiner] Re: Comparing Ayn Rand and Steiner
          >
          > ******* Greetings Juan. Quite a serendipity. Perhaps we can have a useful philosophical discussion here. I'm sure many members would like learning more of Steiner's ethical individualism, which I think parallels Rand's Objectivism... Understandable as it is a form of Aristotelianism, and he was Aristotle himself reincanated! -starman
          > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


          A useful philosophical discussion can happen, yes, and I believe it begins within an atmosphere of free expression wherein we each give our immediate thoughts and feelings on the subject. It is quite serendipitous that this has occurred between at least three people who like the thinking of Rudolf Steiner and Ayn Rand.

          I realize that it has apparently been jerry-rigged to a certain extent by Mitt Romney's naming of his VP running mate, but this only adds to the serendipity, it seems to me.

          As stated previously, I recently felt the need to study Rand again, and it has to do with her mystique as a member of the Russian Folk Soul for me. I think her story of depravation and then opportunity in coming to America is awesome. I like her. She speaks the truth as she sees it, and never wavered from her "principles".

          I watched the movie version of Barbara Branden's "The Passion of Ayn Rand", c. 1998 with Helen Mirren as Ayn, a few weeks ago, and I think I saw someone I hadn't seen before in the opening segment at the funeral home with the adoring fans, March 1982.

          Did anyone see who spoke the first words to the people at the funeral ceremony?

          Juan
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