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Cosmology

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  • Durward Starman
    ... *******I believe they are the same, yes. 2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth EARTH PERIOD the Sun and the outer planets
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 2, 2011
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      ******* Well, it would have been nice for you to introduce yourself, but without knowing your name to address you personally, I'll try to address your questions, since no one else has yet.  Tell us your name next time!




      >Hello people. Hello all those who study the teachings of Dr. Steiner in detail. I have some questions.
      1. Are the "PERIODS", that our Dr. Steiner referred to, identical to the "PLANETARY CHAINS" of Theosophy? In several places, he implied that the "MOON CHAIN" of Blavatskian Theosophy is the "MOON PERIOD" (in places where he noted that Theosophy only had scanty references to periods preceding the Moon Period)

      *******I believe they are the same, yes.


      >2. Also, according to him, in the current fourth round of the fourth "EARTH PERIOD" the Sun and the outer planets (Saturn, Jupiter and Mars) separated from the Earth-mass and then SUN separated the inner planets (Mercury and Venus), each one at different times (in An Outline of Occult Science) -- doesn't each of these planets have its own planetary scheme -- i.e. there is a Venus scheme, Jupiter scheme, etc. -- independent of the PLANET Earth scheme, if only in a manner? Or they all belong to the Earth scheme?

      *******Each one of the other planets of our solar system came into existence because there are beings at a stage of evolution to which that sphere or world corresponds. human spirits sometimes journey to these spheres, but primarily they are the home of completely different beings at completely different stages of development, and each one of them has a series of developmental stages of its own.



      >3. Are there any mentions of this (#2 question) elsewhere in his writingS?

      ******* It's pointed out towards the end of the sixth chapter of An Outline of Occult Science, and he went into some detail in various lectures. 



      >4. There is a mention in Madame HPB's Secret Doctrine that, Venus is in it's seventh round, Mercury (??) coming out of a pralaya, etc. Is it the case that each of these planets have their own evolutionary SCHEME in a way independent of the Earth Scheme? 

      ******* Yes they certainly do!



      >5. Do you think that this is one of the ideas that Dr. Steiner wants us to figure out on our own?

      *******You could say that; because, naturally, it's not meant to remain just an idea. The higher worlds he describes are communicated first as ideas, but, if you accept that they exist, naturally what you should be looking to do is learn how to experience them. Each one is populated with just as many and diverse beings as the earth is. When you experience them, they can't be classified in terms of earthly kingdoms. You might find human or animal-like traits in some, but something completely alien in most of them, pointing to an ancestry that has nothing in common with earth.


      >6. What I understand is, HUMANITY is the FIRST condition of individualized consciousness. Is this in accord with Dr. Steiner?

      ******* The possession of self-awareness, like the Ego we have, is a stage which all beings have to pass through in some form; the beings who are ahead of us in evolution, that we call the Angels, passed through it already. Some other beings passed through it by an extraordinary development of the astral body and never have what we know as the ego, but do have self-awareness. 



      >7. In places he mentioned that, in the present part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied" that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN individualities which went out with the Sun, and later on with Venus and Mercury? 

      ******* I don't think they were human beings who stayed with the sun, or with Mercury or Venus. But afterwards, before the Earth and Moon separated, when our Earth world went through a catastrophic development, some human beings were taken away from the earth plane to temporary homes in the other planetary spheres with the higher beings who always inhabited them. Those are two different things.


      >>He talked about Gautama Buddha as one such Individuality (is he HUMAN?) who came from Venus.

      *******I believe you'll find that Gautama was a highly developed human individuality, who was able to receive into himself a higher being from another plane, just as Jesus was able to receive the Christ being into himself.



      >I apologize for not taking down notes -- I should have. I know that the Theosophy of Dr. Steiner is Earth-HUMAN-centric, but I want to look at his cosmogony from the perspective of the SUN, our primary Hierarch, so I am rearranging ideas according to the Theosophical ordering. I do this also to identify the differences in the teachings of HPB and Dr. Steiner. Has anyone done this?


      *******I don't know.


      8. Thinking on these, I'm having some insights -- the beings of the present planets were already within the big Saturn-mass of the Saturn PERIOD, of course at lower scales of evolution. Could it be that the Jupiter scheme, Venus scheme, etc. are "portions" of that mass, each undergoing it's own planetary scheme? I'm having an insight that Dr. Steiner just deliberately omitted this detail and just focused on the Earth scheme for convenience -- that is, to suit the Earth-Man-centric perspective? Or Am I just experiencing some sort of an astral delusion?

      RSVP

      ******* No, of course you're entirely correct, all the beings of all the hierarchies are themselves evolving along a plan of evolution which may be incomprehensible to us; just as your pet cat may not be able to understand what you're all about, but can tell that you either influence it for good or for harm, what we know most definitely is how these beings influence us. You'll notice that it was only at the highest point of his development that Dr. Steiner was able to attempt to describe what up being like an Archangel such as Michael is experiencing in its own evolution, as opposed to just how he influences us. I'd just make one correction, that not all the beings in the primal "Saturn-mass" were at lower scales of evolution: many of them were at much higher stages of evolution than ourselves. They were the directors. We call them, rightly, the gods.

      I hope this helps.

      -starman
      www.DrStarman.com
    • DiwataD
      Hello Dr. Starman, I was starting to think no one would reply anymore. Thanks a lot. Anyway, I m Diwata, a gnostic occultist from Asia. I just love Dr.
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 24, 2011
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        Hello Dr. Starman,

        I was starting to think no one would reply anymore. Thanks a lot. Anyway, I'm Diwata, a gnostic occultist from Asia.

        I just love Dr. Steiner's Theosophical cosmology. Sometimes it frightens me that if I think of Man, and analyze him "backwards" in time, I get insights as given by Dr. Steiner (or perhaps, his ideas are just so sound that much of his cosmological stuff can be derived by this type of thinking)

        Anyway, I hope I can get to ask more questions in the future. I'll take down notes. :)


        Sincerly,

        Diwata
      • DiwataD
        Oh! You have an astrology site. Please please! I will study it :)
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 24, 2011
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          Oh! You have an astrology site. Please please! I will study it :)
        • DiwataD
          ... Anyway, I m just intrigued by a statement of HPB on Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her humanity having very advanced intellectuality. She
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 25, 2011
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            > 7. In places he mentioned that, in the present
            > part of our HUMAN "kin", so to speak, evacuated
            > to the outer planets. Do you think he also "implied"
            > that there are also a few most advanced HUMAN
            > individualities which went out with the Sun, and
            > later on with Venus and Mercury?
            > ******* I don't think they were human beings who
            > stayed with the sun, or with Mercury or Venus.
            > But afterwards, before the Earth and Moon separated,
            > when our Earth world went through a catastrophic
            > development, some human beings were taken away from
            > the earth plane to temporary homes in the other
            > planetary spheres with the higher beings who always
            > inhabited them. Those are two different things.

            Anyway, I'm just intrigued by a statement of HPB on "Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her "humanity" having very advanced intellectuality." She also added that "when the Earth reaches her 7th round, her humanity will achieve greater spirituality but with a kind of inferior intellectuality than the Venusian humanity right now."

            This really piques my interest on "humanity" outside Earth. What is the "Human" State?? Is it the very first degree of self-consciousness?? Do the Angels, Archangels, and other higher beings, possess self-consciousness? If I'm allowed to relate ideas from HPB to Dr. Steiner, I guess there are "humans" on Venus (again, humans, in the sense of possessing the first degree of self-consciousness).

            I also can't shake off this feeling that "humanity" (as I learned it from Theosophy, and from Dr. Steiner in particular) is spread over the entire solar system, even now.

            Did Dr. Steiner just deliberately restricted "humanity" to Earth humans, so that we can focus on our own development here? Did he mention this in his writings, or even just alluded to this? Is Earth the central creation of the Solar Hierarchies?

            I apologize for having so many questions in mind. I just want to make it personally, mentally, sound this Theosophical cosmogony
          • Durward Starman
            ... I m just intrigued by a statement of HPB on Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her humanity having very advanced intellectuality. She also
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 30, 2011
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              ... I'm just intrigued by a statement of HPB on "Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her "humanity" having very advanced intellectuality." She also added that "when the Earth reaches her 7th round, her humanity will achieve greater spirituality but with a kind of inferior intellectuality than the Venusian humanity right now."

              This really piques my interest on "humanity" outside Earth. What is the "Human" State?? Is it the very first degree of self-consciousness?? Do the Angels, Archangels, and other higher beings, possess self-consciousness? If I'm allowed to relate ideas from HPB to Dr. Steiner, I guess there are "humans" on Venus (again, humans, in the sense of possessing the first degree of self-consciousness).

              I also can't shake off this feeling that "humanity" (as I learned it from Theosophy, and from Dr. Steiner in particular) is spread over the entire solar system, even now.

              Did Dr. Steiner just deliberately restricted "humanity" to Earth humans, so that we can focus on our own development here? Did he mention this in his writings, or even just alluded to this? Is Earth the central creation of the Solar Hierarchies?

              I apologize for having so many questions in mind. I just want to make it personally, mentally, sound this Theosophical cosmogony


            • Durward Starman
              _._Re ... I m just intrigued by a statement of HPB on Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her humanity having very advanced intellectuality. She
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 30, 2011
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                _._Re



                ... I'm just intrigued by a statement of HPB on "Venus being in her 7th round right now, and her "humanity" having very advanced intellectuality." She also added that "when the Earth reaches her 7th round, her humanity will achieve greater spirituality but with a kind of inferior intellectuality than the Venusian humanity right now."

                This really piques my interest on "humanity" outside Earth. What is the "Human" State?? Is it the very first degree of self-consciousness?? Do the Angels, Archangels, and other higher beings, possess self-consciousness? If I'm allowed to relate ideas from HPB to Dr. Steiner, I guess there are "humans" on Venus (again, humans, in the sense of possessing the first degree of self-consciousness).

                I also can't shake off this feeling that "humanity" (as I learned it from Theosophy, and from Dr. Steiner in particular) is spread over the entire solar system, even now.

                Did Dr. Steiner just deliberately restricted "humanity" to Earth humans, so that we can focus on our own development here? Did he mention this in his writings, or even just alluded to this? Is Earth the central creation of the Solar Hierarchies?

                I apologize for having so many questions in mind. I just want to make it personally, mentally, sound this Theosophical cosmogony

                _._,_.___
                *******Certainly no need to apologize. I wish all the people who have questions would ask them here!

                If you would like a description of the human-but-more-advanced-humanity that now exists on the plane of Venus, I can suggest 
                nothing better than the spirit-dictated book, A Dweller On Two Planets (1886), published for years by Steinerbooks. The author
                 describes an initiation in the late 1800s in the Western US where he is sent for months to the plane of Venus in the second half of the book.
                 I can vouch for it being real. Our study group is reading the book together currently.

                There are the grades of being above Man: Angels, Archangels, etc. In this world-epoch, we cannot rise to the level of Angels (as people erroneously say 
                of good departed human beings, that they are now "angels"), but we can rise higher, still as "human" beings so that we work much more with higher beings. 
                What Blavatsky called the Great White Brotherhood are beings between men and angels, able to perform miraculous deeds, take on physical bodies when
                 needed,etc. All supernatural stories of "saints" describe these beings. They are no longer bound to the earth and time and space are quite different for them.
                 They have gained self-consciousness but have also developed psychic awareness along with it such as most men will not have until the next world, or even 2
                 worlds from now.  So they no longer feel at home on this earth plane. They come here on missions but their home is in the more advanced planes of the solar
                 system, such as Jupiter and Venus.

                Starman
                Re-sent because my response didn't show on previous post.

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